the final shock of false believers

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Reformingstudent

Puritan Board Junior
Question: When someone thinks of them self as a true believer in Christ but deny the truth of the scriptures such as imputed righteousness, Salvation by grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone, does God reveal His truth to them when they die or do they pass onto the next world in outer darkness thinking that Christ failed them? In other word's does God show them that their supposed good works are in fact filthy rags in His sight.
I am thinking of those who make a sincere profession of faith in Christ and are really trying to live to please Him but have never truly been made alive by Christ and are trying to do all they can to live by God's moral law in their own strength. I know a lot like that and I fear that they will be in for a shock when their time to leave this world behind comes. What makes it sad is the fact that some turn a deaf ear to the truth and do not wish to know any thing except what they have already been taught.
I maybe wrong here but I find it hard to think the Lord would let some think Christ failed in the work that He was appointed to accomplish, namely Salvation. Of course Christ did not fail to save those that are His but these others who think they belong to Him but end up in the lake of fire will wonder why He did not save them. After all, they played by the right rules and accepted Him as their Lord and Saviour.

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by Reformingstudent]
 
I just HATE thinking of this stuff! It makes me want to bawl my eyes out sometimes. I think that one's state of consciousness changes once he/she leaves this world, and the blinders come off. I don't think they think Christ failed, I think they finally realize how depraved their thinking has been, and how much they really hate God. The thought of some poor, well-intended Arminian in hell thinking he still loves God is just too much - and I don't think it really happens. Our habits of self-delusion, combined with the common grace we experience in this realm, are what cause us to think we're saved when it's all self-effort.
 
Originally posted by turmeric
I just HATE thinking of this stuff! It makes me want to bawl my eyes out sometimes. I think that one's state of consciousness changes once he/she leaves this world, and the blinders come off. I don't think they think Christ failed, I think they finally realize how depraved their thinking has been, and how much they really hate God. The thought of some poor, well-intended Arminian in hell thinking he still loves God is just too much - and I don't think it really happens. Our habits of self-delusion, combined with the common grace we experience in this realm, are what cause us to think we're saved when it's all self-effort.

I know what you mean. I have family and friends who will be in hell unless God opens their eyes and brings them to true saving faith in Christ. I also now others who are self-righteous and think they are one of Gods prized pets because of their so called good doings. I pray for them as well that they would see their own folly and turn from their ways and truly seek Him while He maybe found.
 
When false believers go to hell, they will realize that their faith was not genuine. Once a false believer goes to hell he is not going to be saying to himself, "My faith was genuine.".
 
I like what one of my favorite theologians says sometimes..."Now, I know that about a third of what I have said to you is false, but I do not know which third that is, so it is up to you to take what I have said to the scriptures for testing."

I'm sorry but I don't believe there is any good reason to believe that arminians go to hell. According to biblical Epistomology we ALL still are being sanctified and are having are thinking renewed. We as Christians are still dyfunctional in our ability to re-interpret God's thoughts. This is one reason God has in his providence given us the Ecumenical Creeds- to test and know orthodoxy. If an Arminian agrees with the creeds and lives a godly life, by all accounts he is a Christian.
 
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
How many of us are self deceived?

How would one know for sure than that they are really saved? :candle:

Psa 44:21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart
Psa 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
Psa 139:24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
 
Originally posted by Consistent
I like what one of my favorite theologians says sometimes..."Now, I know that about a third of what I have said to you is false, but I do not know which third that is, so it is up to you to take what I have said to the scriptures for testing."

I'm sorry but I don't believe there is any good reason to believe that arminians go to hell. According to biblical Epistomology we ALL still are being sanctified and are having are thinking renewed. We as Christians are still dyfunctional in our ability to re-interpret God's thoughts. This is one reason God has in his providence given us the Ecumenical Creeds- to test and know orthodoxy. If an Arminian agrees with the creeds and lives a godly life, by all accounts he is a Christian.

What of the Arminian who has had truth revealed to him and he flat out denys it? Doesn't that make him an un-believer and if so than doesn't that prove he is non of His?
 
1 John 4:5-6

5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.
6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
 
I agree with you that straight up denial of the truth is a sign of unbelief. I doubt that most arminians are god-hating truth rejecters, but confused children in need of loving guidence. They for the most part are being taught false doctrine.

And most arminians we know don't live like arminians, nor pray like arminians. I was once in a discussion with one of my elders about eschatology. He is A-mil and I am post-mil. I reminded him of a story he told about his coming to accept calvinism. He said that he decided to believe a theology consistent with how he prayed! I then told him to come to the biblical truth of post-mil and have an eschatology consistent with how he prayed! It was a funny convo, but my point is that most arminians come to the truth once they are patiently led to the scriptures...I was.
 
John,
When we speak of Arminians, we are referring to those whom deny Gods sovereignty and embrace synergistic salvations.
 
Originally posted by Consistent
"Now, I know that about a third of what I have said to you is false, but I do not know which third that is, so it is up to you to take what I have said to the scriptures for testing."

Something about that statement "œscares" me. And that from a Theolog? Why don´t he just shut his mouth two thirds of the time and talks what he knows!
 
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
How many of us are self deceived?

I often ask myself that. We seem to be talking about self-righteous arminians, in the original sense of self-righteousness, i.e. not trusting in Christ's righteousness, but there are self-righteous and self-deceived Reformed people as well, I know that because the Church is a "mixed multitude" here on earth. Those who have more truth will receive greater judgment for rejecting it, so I pray I am not self-deceived.
 
Originally posted by turmeric
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
How many of us are self deceived?

I often ask myself that. We seem to be talking about self-righteous arminians, in the original sense of self-righteousness, i.e. not trusting in Christ's righteousness, but there are self-righteous and self-deceived Reformed people as well, I know that because the Church is a "mixed multitude" here on earth. Those who have more truth will receive greater judgment for rejecting it, so I pray I am not self-deceived.

That is my greatest fear. One reason I ask the Lord to show me where I stand with Him and help me to know my own heart. My judgment of my self is bias and as Jeremiah says, The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?( Jer 17:9) How then can I or anyone know what's in their heart unless God shows them? 1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
 
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
John,
When we speak of Arminians, we are referring to those whom deny Gods sovereignty and embrace synergistic salvations.

Thank you for clarifying sir.:D
 
That is why it is crucial that we are always to be pointed to Christ as Christ, or the pure & true gospel. It is this that engenders & strengthens faith.

More accuracy of doctrine saves no one, per se, I want to be careful there lest someone here me saying "anything goes".

Only the real, true & pure Gospel will give comfort on your death bed. No amount of one's doings & certainly not one's failing to do's at any one time or whole of your life will nor should provide comfort or assurance. Not even the "strength, magnitude or quality of your faith" - it is the Object of faith (trusting) that matters (Christ as reedemer). This is why the Gospel must be declared consistantly, clearly & unconfused - to not only unbelievers for conversion, but Christians too and all our lives. Because doubt from flesh, the world & certainly Satan assail us every hour, yes every second.

That's why the Good News IS Good News, and not another gospel which is really no gospel at all.

ldh
 
Those who are not true believers are true haters of God. They may love their morality, they may love their theology, they may love feelings that they believe are associated with God, they may love church fellowship, they may love their idolatry of pictures, angels, symbols, etc., but if they have not God in their hearts then they are spiteful enemies of their Creator. The final shock of false believers is the act of exposing just how much they truly hate God and how horribly they have sinned against him.

I agree that while Arminianism is heresy, it is not to damn a believer if he knows no better. No one who honestly trusts Christ as their only Lord and Savior will go to hell just because they think they have free will. This reminds me of an old joke....

Two Arminians and a Calvinist step into an elevator together. Once inside, the first Arminian pushes the button for the 100th floor and says,

"Whenever I'm here visiting the Empire State Building I like to use my free will and choose to go up to the 100th floor. It shows that I can go wherever I like."

As the elevator starts to rise, the second Arminian begins to dance and says,

"Whenever I'm here visiting the Empire State Building I like to use my free will and dance in the elevator, showing how I can do whatever I like as I'm going where I want to go."

At this point the Calvinist can't bear it anymore, "That's nice fellas, but this is the Sears Tower."
 
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