The evils of television

[Pergamum]

Get TIVO you guys. Then you can be your own broadcaster and skip all the commercials.

If there is any moral difference between the TV and the net it is one of degree and not of kind...and a very small degree at that.

I still think that consistency would require that a low view of tv would also entail a low view of the net.

Answer me this: How many sex perverts molest children by means of cable tv? By this standard, the net is 1000 times more dangerous than tv.

I still contend that it is an extreme irony for people to be lambasting TV while on a net community board.

Oh yeah....and also I have read about online gambling recently. If this spreads, how will you answer the charge that you cannot gamble over the cable tv, but you can on the net? Again, if TV is somewhat evil, then the net is extremely evil and should be thrown out.

I know of a few folks that have thrown out their tvs. I know of their TV's fate - because they mention it often (perhaps trying to persuade others of the superiority of their actions to my own). I never congratulate them on it, because it seems that they are doing so out of pride. Why else would they keep telling people about how they have thrown out their tv. They also have no net, and do not listen to any radio, read the paper nor subscribe to any magazines.

Having said all this, I watch hardly any TV (but I hope to when my life slows down).

Trevor




Trevor

 

[bradofshaw]

Another question that falls under Christian Liberty.

Redeem the time, dwell on what is pure and lovely and good, do all things to the glory of God.

If TV inhibits, prevents, or outweighs the things that are commanded by Christ, then get rid of it. To say that there are no positive uses of it for the responsible believer is simply ridiculous. Its not a bad idea for the mature, responsible Christian to occasionally watch CNN, view a couple commercials, and get an idea of what the culture is shoving down the throats of the masses. It is a bad idea to let your children become one of those mindless members of the mass of society that is basically programmed by the TV. Nonetheless, there are informative programs, humourous programms, and innocently entertaining programms on TV. As Christians we are called to use our time responsibly, and I think that our concern should always be to make sure that we are not consumed by things which are not edifying.

Weigh the positives against the negatives, make godly and wise guidelines, and decide for your family what is best. The same can be said for internet, magazines, movies, or pretty much anything in life. We have been given spiritual wisdom to make these decisions. Be mindful of the weaker brother, and in all things seek to do that which is pleasing to God.

 

[Henry from Canada]

You know, I find threads like this fascinating. You guys are having a heated discussion over something - while at the same time you probably have similar views.

A previous poster wisely said that what happens is that different posters will take extreme examples to refute another poster's argument.

I think everyone can agree with the following:

1) Excessive TV watching is very dangerous. It can result in sloth, gluttony, time-wasting, exposure to vile images, etc.

2) TV - especially if you can eliminate commercials - can be relaxing and informative. At the end of the day, watching an hour or two of television can help a person unwind. I haven't had a TV for 3 years, however, I will not criticize anyone for using TV in this manner.

3) The internet can be absolutely wonderful. I have spent hours surfing the net and reading Calvinist authors like Jonathon Edwards, et al.

4) The internet, too, can be very dangerous, with the explicit images, gambling, etc. We must be responsible with internet use.

I think that everyone can agree with the above points. If not, then I shall have to wipe the egg of my face yet again.

I think Robin's post was especially interesting. This post referred to a study that examined the effects of excessive TV usage (link below).

I don't think anyone in this grioup needs to take it personally.
I suspect anyone who spends hours/years reading about 17th century Calvinists does not need to worry about becoming a TV zombie.

But at the same time, I think it's important to realize the devastating potential of TV. I know people who watch about 5+ hours of TV per day. These people seem to exhibit certain behavior patterns, as described in the link below.

The link below discusses how EXCESSIVE television watching can change a person's behavior and thought processes. It answered a lot of questions for me. It explains many of words previous posters have used, like 'zombie', 'vegging out.' It also shows the difference between people who watch a little TV and a lot of TV.

http://www.jr.co.il/articles/tv.txt

I think this article should be required reading for high school students.

:deadhorse

 

[Pergamum]

Amen - brother. Henry from Canada!

 

[Swampguy]

 

[Bladestunner316]

to trevor

 

[ANT]

Originally posted by trevorjohnson
Why not live like the Amish and party like its 1699!

I know this is off the subject, but I couldn't resist.

One of my favorite things to say to my kids ... is ...

I'm gonna go midevil on your hiney! (Spelling?)

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Originally posted by joshua
I think you're all angry legalistic licentious pigs!

:bigsmile:

Just joshin

Behind every joke, there is a measure of truth.

The internet and TV and library and ANYTHING aren't much different. Are we not to have any time for personal entertainment and relaxation ? Which of you is married on here, would not take your wife and yourself away on vacation once in a while ?

Our brains and bodies DO need that bit of rest and relaxation away from everything else emotion consuming M-F. God didn't just put a sabbath rest day in for the purpose of worship....David didn't just play his instrument to write hymns with.

Everything has its' place.... and if something becomes a hindrance and consumes too much time away from the more important things...then stop it.

So keep your TV. The History Channel, National Geographic and EVEN TBN have some good programs (and for the record, I *do* believe TBN stands for 'The Blasphemy Network') from time to time. There is always the local news. Sometimes there are things that we simply 'like' and find fascinating. Sometimes a good story (i.e. - CSI or Law and Order) can serve as a good 'interaction' basis for discussion with unbelievers and be a starting point for sparking a conversation on the gospel.

But if all you do is run off in your little reformed huddle and only seek to 'convert' 'Christians' to Calvinism and speak in an almost 'foreign language' to the few unsaved you do interact with, still thinking this is 1746, and then wonder why your church doesn't grow...or worse, SHRINKS.........

Never mind, I've said my peace....

[Edited on 11-27-2005 by OS_X]

 

[Bladestunner316]

 

[Henry from Canada]

A number of posters have outlined the dangers of excessive TV watching. They have pointed out that this can lead to obesity, changes in thought processing, time-wasting, exposure to vile images, etc. I suspect tens of millions of Americans watch too much TV.

Anyway, one poster in jest said: 'I think you're all angry legalistic licentious pigs!' He said this in jest.

Another poster quotes this verbatim and then said: 'Behind every joke, there is a measure of truth.'

Another poster said: 'Ditto.'

Thanks, it is not every day that I am called a pig, even in jest. If I have offended anyone, I am sincerely sorry.

It was never my intention to appear 'legalistic' by outlining the dangers of TV.

However, Robin referred to a study that answered a lot of questions for me.
A link to this study is listed here:
http://www.jr.co.il/articles/tv.txt
Please check out this link, and then tell me TV is not extremely dangerous - especially for young people.

This link explains why people who watch a lot of TV seem to be transfixed by it. It explains how children who watch a lot of TV can become obese, lacking in self-discipline, etc.

This doesn't mean that watching TV should be prohibited. Hey, you work hard all day and then you want to watch some TV to relax and unwind, what can I say?

I think TV can be very educational also. I saw 5 minutes of a show called 'Party of Five' once, and in this 5 minutes I had a question answered that had plagued me for years. It explained my reaction to a life-threatening traumatic event that occurred when I was 8 years old. (I had never seen this show before or since.)

The way you people debate is quite disheartening. I shutter to think what non-Calvinists think when they surf the net and happen to read PB posts.

You know, I have been reading this board for about 6 months. Some of the posters really impress me. The way certain people on this board approach the Bible is really neat. Coming from a Pentecostal background, this is incredibly refreshing.

But some of the other stuff that I have seen is quite distressing. In all the years I have gone to Pentecostal, Vineyard or similar churches, I don't think I was ever called a pig, even in jest.

This was not an exceptional type of case either. I have seen other posts that seemed to have much harsher dialogue.

Have you ever wondered why many non-Calvinists view Calvinists as being harsh and unloving?













Oh yes, too much of anything can be bad. Too much food is bad, too much exercise is bad, too much internet is bad, etc. But I just don't think people fully realize the shocking implications of too much TV. Please read the above link. TV can change your thought processes in ways that are unique.

 

[Bladestunner316]

Sorry if I offened you I was merly agreeing with those who posted that T.V. in itslef is not bad but merly the same as the internet in respect's that too much or the wrong thing can make it bad.

blade

 

[Henry from Canada]

If that was directed to me, no problem.

The funny thing about all this is that I think we are all in agreement.

I think we all have enjoyed TV, and I think that we all see the massive danger posed by TV.

What I find so perplexing about this thread and this group is that there can be heated debates among people that deep down are in basic agreement.

What I find distressing personally is that I find myself getting involved in these debates.

I originally wanted to join this group because I have a wide range of questions about Calvinism. I haven't gotten around to asking these questions because I find myself being distracted by debates like this, which is really a bogus debate because I seriously doubt anyone here is addicted to TV. It is unlikely that anyone who takes the time and effort to spend hours/years studying Calvinism is going to spend 5 hours a day in front of a TV like a zombie. (But there are many zombies out there.)

Some of my questions are very involved and require me to spend a bit of time looking up Bible passages to properly frame the questions.

Others questions are less complicated.

Example of a less complicated question:

When I first started studying Calvinism, I discussed my ideas with a Pentecostal leader. One of her first objections was that she felt that mankind has at least enough 'goodness' to be able to in some small way choose God.

When I read Romans 3, it sure appears that you, me and everyone else is totally depraved. Gen. 6 seems to support this as does WWI, WWII, the Rwandan massacre of 1994, the Zimbardo study, the Milgram study, etc.

Romans 3 is devastating. To me, it means that I am totally helpless, and that the only thing that separates the elect from the non-elect is God's mercy.

I have stated this to another pentecostal a few times, and he just doesn't respond.

When I try to explain total depravity, I simply read aloud Romans 3, in which Paul tells us how lousy we really are in great detail.

To me, this chapter was one of the most critical chapters in the Bible. I said this to a missionary once and he wasn't impressed.

My question is: Is there a better way to explain total depravity.

And, by better I don't mean a lengthy dissertation of total depravity, because most people want the short sound bites you get on TV. I like reading Romans 3 because it is short, simple and straight to the point.

 

[Bladestunner316]

Probably best to start this question in a new thread

I sympathize with you on your dealing's with Pentecostal's !

Blade

 

[BlackCalvinist]

I wasn't intending to call you a pig and I apologize if you were offended and ask you to forgive me.

I was mostly focused on the 'legalistic' part, which we (Calvinists) are sometimes accused of being. Hence, I added additional comments which would have shown that this was my focus.

As for obesity, ADHD, etc..... it's not the TV that makes people this way.... it's their own lack of discipline. If it wasn't the TV, it could be the internet or any number of other distractions that people allow to rule over them instead of the other way around.

 

[Henry from Canada]

Hello Kerry,

No doubt, there is truth in what you said. Lack of discipline also contributes to obesity, etc. And no doubt, if it is not TV something else will corrupt our minds.

At the same time, however, I think there is something especially bad about TV.

Have you ever noticed how TV viewers are transfixed by the images?

Have you ever watched TV without the sound and wondered why the images flash before your eyes so quickly? Apparently, this is suppose to partially hypnotize and transfix you - in a way the books can't.

This link was a real eye opener for me. (no pun intended)
http://www.jr.co.il/articles/tv.txt

Anyway Kerry, I don't think you and I have much of a disagreement here. In short, you seem to think excessive TV is really harmful - like so many other things in life. I just happen to think excessive TV is harmful in a very unique way in that it can actually change the way people think. That is not much of a disagreement.

I didn't want to say this, but there is a particular reason why I think this topic is really crucial. While I know a lot of people that watch TV intelligently, I also have seen people who I think were destroyed by TV.

These people fell into the rut of watching TV every night after they came home from work. They built their lives around TV. Consequently, they have not made good use of their God-given talents.

I had a bright roommate that failed every course in university. He watched about 6 hours of TV a day. I used to walk by the TV room and see him transfixed in front of the tube.

Secretly, I fear this may happen to me. I stopped working in 2001 because of a disability. My TV died in 2002. I did not buy another TV because I was afraid that a TV might distract me from exercising stretching, reading, etc.
I've read that this frequently happens to disabled and retired people - and this scares me.

Now I spend a ton of time on the internet. Much of this time is spent reading Bible studies. There is a whack of good Bible material on the net. I also have spent a lot of time studying my illness, diet information, potential alternative therapies, etc.

Now I also waste time on the internet, especially when I am really tired.

Anyway, here we are. There have been 40 or so posts disagreeing over a topic in which we really don't have much of a disagreement.

I don't mean this to be offensive, but maybe this group should spend more time discussing how we can better present Calvinism to the world. Calvinism is an unknown theology to 99% of people born after 1945. I know when I started reading about this in 2002, I was shocked. And, I have many Dutch and Dutch reformed forefathers.

One of the things I'm pondering is setting up a web site with links to other web pages that contain easy-to-read articles on important Christian topics such as:
- a good primer on Calvinism that is less than 2,000 words long
- did Jesus really anoint Peter to be the first Pope (as a Catholic co-worker of mine one insisted)
- what is slain in the spirit and which Bible passages prove/disprove this
- can a prophet be 60% accurate and still be a Godly prophet

These topics may seem really elementary to you, but in the past I have had unresolved disagreements with people over these very same topics. Fortunately, I have stumbled upon some sites that do a really really good job of explaining these issues. I'm thinking about compiling a list of these sites.