"The doctrine of Election in a proverbial nutshell"

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Kim G, May 30, 2008.

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  1. Kim G

    Kim G Puritan Board Junior

    I recently came across a dispensationalist's view (disciplemakerministries.org) of election. He calls this "The doctrine of Election in a proverbial Nutshell." I have removed the multiple parathetical statements and verses so as to better understand the flow.

    Without furthur ado *drumroll*, "The Doctrine of Election in a Nutshell":

    Later he says:
    I grew up in a dispensational church, but I had never heard such :barfy:. Was I just asleep? Is this actually the "normal" dispensational view of election?
  2. Wannabee

    Wannabee Obi Wan Kenobi

    This is a "typical" view of many churches. It's a man centered gospel that denies God's sovereignty without realizing it. Pray for those who haven't been given the good teaching and understanding that we, only by the unimaginable and unfathomable grace of God, have been blessed with.

    Your resident dispy, ;)
  3. Kim G

    Kim G Puritan Board Junior

    Are you really dispy? Just curious, since I really have no idea what I believe (though I know what I don't believe!).
  4. Wannabee

    Wannabee Obi Wan Kenobi

    Oy, that ought to open a :worms:.

    For the moment, I think I'll let others answer that for me since I'm probably a bit biased... :D
  5. BJClark

    BJClark Puritan Board Doctor

    Not really a comment on the article, but more something my 13 yr old son said yesterday when we were talking about this topic..

    He asked.."How can someone believe they make the decision on whether they go to heaven or not?" Then he add's his thoughts "if it were left up to everyone, then everyone would be going to heaven, and that's not what the bible says...the Bible clearly says there IS a Hell and people will go there, and since there is a Hell and nobody would choose to go there, or there would be no need for the bible to mention hell, that must mean God declares it, or that would make God a liar, and well, God is not a liar."

    Then he got quite, and I asked what he was thinking..and he said.."the thought of an eternity in hell, that's forever and ever with no end to suffering, that's really scary."

    His 13 yr old friend who was with us, looked at him and said.."I've never thought about it that way, WOW, I'm going to have to think about that some more."
  6. Davidius

    Davidius Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    It may be both/and. Christ is called the "elect" in 1 Peter 2, that is, the "chosen" corner stone. The Greek word is the same (ἐκλεκτός - eklektos, which becomes "elect" in English when the prefix, the preposition ἐκ, loses its kappa). When used of Christ in Peter, it is normally translated as "chosen" instead of elect, at least in the newer versions. Either way, the Greek word, and both English translations, are applied to Christ and his people. In Peter, the imagery is of Christ the chosen/elect cornerstone upon whom His people are added as stones to build God's house.

    I can also think of at least one Old Testament messianic prophecy which uses this language with regard to the Savior:

    It's translated "chosen" in the newer translations.

    (note: "chosen" is basically the same as "elect" but has a Germanic rather than Latin/Greek origin)
  7. Kim G

    Kim G Puritan Board Junior

    I don't dispute the fact that Christ is the "elect" in one sense. But I don't agree that the "elect" in another sense is a group of believers who chose to trust Christ, rather than those who are chosen by Christ.
  8. Davidius

    Davidius Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    I know. I wasn't really commenting on that question in my post, rather pointing out some variation in the usage of the term in Scripture to show that that guy isn't wrong when he says that Christ is also "elect" in some sense.
  9. danmpem

    danmpem Puritan Board Junior

    While I don't know everything about dispinsationalism, that quote definitely has the perspective of an individual who has an Israel-centered hermeneutic to the Bible. Israel was God's "chosen nation", but not everyone was chosen to be saved within the nation. This is used by some to find a middle-ground in the doctrine of election (a person may be chosen by God, but that does not guarantee salvation for the individual).

    (I'm not trying to bash dispinsationalism or any dispies out there, I'm just giving my :2cents: on the quote.)
  10. Jimmy the Greek

    Jimmy the Greek Puritan Board Senior

    I think you will find both Arminian-leaning dispies and Calvinistic-leaning dispies, John MacArthur being of the latter type. I don't think Dispensationalism itself is necessarily preferential for or against Calvinism or Arminianism -- although by definition it is anti-Covenant Theology. Earlier proponents (a la Scofield, Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord) would have identified themselves as soteriological Calvinists (although moderate) and dispensationalists. With its widespread popularity (especially among independent and non-confessional churches) you find some with basically an Arminian theological framework who are dispensationalists.

    Regarding the OP, although Christ may certainly be regarded as "the Elect One," the nutshell summary is a typical Arminian conclusion.
  11. danmpem

    danmpem Puritan Board Junior

    Although, MacArthur is more covenantal than most would like to admit. Yeah, he has his dispy roots, but between Lordship salvation, 5-point Calvinism, and then some, his teachings transcend those of even progressive dispinsationalism. I first heard of Watson's A Body of Divinity while listening to one of his sermons, when he recommended it.
  12. Jimmy the Greek

    Jimmy the Greek Puritan Board Senior

    Yeah. I'd like to see him leave the remnants of his dispensationalism behind. :eek:

    S. Lewis Johnson was a lot like MacArthur in his theology. The eccentricties of dispensationalism never seemed to be prominent in his teaching.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2008
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