The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

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he beholds

Puritan Board Doctor
I don't know if this will work, but I made a timeline that I've been trying to put online forever. Every time I've tried before, I lost the format of the chronology. But this is from a discussion on the history of procreation vs. reproduction. Here is the timeline. The page will bring you nothing, but an attachment. The attachment is the timeline.
Let me know if it doesn't work.
 

CatherineL

Puritan Board Freshman
I'm not really familiar with the Above Rubies lady, though I have read a few of her practical articles on child training and such and found her to be helpful.

I don't think this clip really represents most QF folks' theological underpinings. My understand is that the two main principles behind QF are 1) that scripture says children are a blessing and reward and 2) that God is the one who opens and closes the womb.

Its interesting to me to read on here people accusing QF people of not believing in the sovereignty of God. We are basically QF in that we are convicted by scripture saying that God opens and closes the womb, so we don't feel comfortable taking steps to close the womb at this point.***
Not because we think we can control His will. Its only because we believe in God's complete sovereignty that we're able to trust God that He won't give us babies we're not supposed to have. At least that's where we are on it at the moment. At the same time, I know that one could argue that if God wants you to have a baby, no birth control attempts on your part would stop it. Since we find chemical BC (the pill and likewise) morally unacceptable, and other forms of BC either icky, frustrating, or impediments to, er, fun :eek: we feel comfortable trusting God with our fertility since the Word says His Will will be done regardless. Its certainly something that deserves prayer and consideration by married couples.

***caveat - I wouldn't call us completely QF because we're not as completely convinced as many QF folks are - we would not persume to say that all family planning is sinful. But we do recognize that most of our personal reasons for avoiding pregnancy are not really Godly at all, and so unless we have a good reason, we choose to not interfere.
 

Tripel

Puritan Board Senior
IWe are basically QF in that we are convicted by scripture saying that God opens and closes the womb, so we don't feel comfortable taking steps to close the womb at this point...we're able to trust God that He won't give us babies we're not supposed to have.
It's safe to say that we all believe in the sovereignty of God, whether you are QF or not. A family will never have more or fewer children than God intended.

With that said, I can respect those who say "God opens and closes the whom, so we're leaving it all up to him", but I also question that mindset. Can a QF family adopt? What if a couple goes into marriage planning to have as many children as God allows and then finds out that their womb is closed?

Why would it be wrong for a couple to try to "close" their womb in the form of birth control, but right for a couple to try to "open" their womb in the form of adoption?
 

Scottish Lass

Puritan Board Doctor
Why would it be wrong for a couple to try to "close" their womb in the form of birth control, but right for a couple to try to "open" their womb in the form of adoption?
I would venture to say that adoption has a positive biblical connection, while birth control does not.
 

Tripel

Puritan Board Senior
Why would it be wrong for a couple to try to "close" their womb in the form of birth control, but right for a couple to try to "open" their womb in the form of adoption?
I would venture to say that adoption has a positive biblical connection, while birth control does not.
I agree, but when it comes down to it, both are getting around God's opening and closing of the womb. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, but I can see where the QF mindset might lead SOME to rely on God's sovereignty so long as it results in lots and lots of babies. I haven't heard of many QF people who are content with having a closed a womb.

...for what it's worth, I think adoption is a great option for those with or without biological children, but I also think birth control can be a good thing.
 

DanMcCormack

Puritan Board Freshman
...for what it's worth, I think adoption is a great option for those with or without biological children, but I also think birth control can be a good thing.
Agreed.

We have three children -- each a blessing from God.

But Janet had successively more complications, and more children probably would have killed her.
 

satz

Puritan Board Senior
Why would it be wrong for a couple to try to "close" their womb in the form of birth control, but right for a couple to try to "open" their womb in the form of adoption?
I would venture to say that adoption has a positive biblical connection, while birth control does not.
To be fair, I think that 1 Cor7:26-32 does set out that there are times when God says it is acceptable for a man to forgo marriage – and hence children – because of distress in his life(v26), or to reduce excessive carefulness in his life (v32). And even if a man is married, should not be the be all and end all of his existence (v29).

There may not explicit bible support for birth control, but its use in certain circumstances is in keeping with bible principles (saying so is not to deny that the way our world has gone is completely out of wack).
 

he beholds

Puritan Board Doctor
Why would it be wrong for a couple to try to "close" their womb in the form of birth control, but right for a couple to try to "open" their womb in the form of adoption?
I would venture to say that adoption has a positive biblical connection, while birth control does not.
I agree, but when it comes down to it, both are getting around God's opening and closing of the womb. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, but I can see where the QF mindset might lead SOME to rely on God's sovereignty so long as it results in lots and lots of babies. I haven't heard of many QF people who are content with having a closed a womb.

...for what it's worth, I think adoption is a great option for those with or without biological children, but I also think birth control can be a good thing.
Adopting is not forcing your womb open, as no baby enters or exits your womb in adoption. If we were talking about in vitro fertilization or something, then you might (and I think, do) have a point. QF is not, typically, about the number of babies you have, but your mindset.
 

sealdaSupralapsarian

Puritan Board Freshman
Yo,

Be fruitful and multiple is certainly a command for Christians today. We can thank Feminism and Autonomy for why this command is looked at as if it is ancient and not revelant for todays Christians. Hogwash :judge:

Also, for some of the comments I've read about the people who advocate large families 6 or more, those people don't look down upon others who don't have as many. I mean if you've had multiple miscarriages those children belong to the LORD as well. If the LORD decree was for them not to enter this world then there's nothing you can do about it. Yet, don't feel ashamed and I'm sure any big family of 6 or more will understand your hardship.

So instead of being pessimistic towards big family advocates, try to understand that they may not understand your situation if you don't communicate it.

Also, Christians having multiple children doesn't gaurantee those children will be inward Christians but it does gaurantee they will be raised up and brought up under the fear and admonition of the LORD their GOD for he is the God of the Saints and the Heathens let the church say Amen. :amen:

Just my thoughts on the topic.


Grace and Peace,
seal
 

JoyFullMom

Puritan Board Junior
Daniel,

I agree with your point about some QF'ers not being content with a closed womb. I don't make other families' business my business, but I must confess that I have a difficult time with the *lack of contentment* with what God has given amongst some of my friends who claim QF. Sometimes, it seems no sooner has a baby been birthed before they are pining away for another. It reminds me of children holding out their hand for *more* candy as the piece they have in their mouth is drooling down their face. And, when God doesn't *bless* every two years or so, there is whining and pleading.

I think that an important point gets missed.....it's about TRUSTING God, in all things, and being CONTENT. The focus always needs to be on the *Giver* rather than the gifts and how many or how few.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying it's wrong to ask God for a child, it is something that goes *beyond* that to which I speak. And...I know this does not apply to all who hold to QF beliefs.
 
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