Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
Where was that denied in the three commentators?
"Six Days Shalt Thou Labor"
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TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
Post #11 and #17. Read them over.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
I had read them over. I didn't see where, by affirming a permission view, they were denying a command-with-exceptions view.
It would be strange to do so...to argue that by the words "Six days shalt thou labor," He didn't intend an ethical imperative, even as a good and necessary consequence.
Did God, in writing the words, separate his 4th-Commandment Mind from His 8th-Commandment Mind, so that there was no ethical GNC to "Six days shalt thou labor"?
OPC'n
Puritan Board Doctor
Henry, do you labor 6 whole days a week? Do you not take time out of those 6 days to do enjoyable things like some type of hobby? Do you really believe that we are to only work 6 days a week from the time we wake up till the time we go to bed and not do things we find enjoyable? Isaiah 58:13 alludes to us being allowed to do earthly enjoyable activities on any day but the Sabbath day by stating for us to not do what pleasures us on the Sabbath (If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath,
from doing your pleasure on my holy day,
and call the Sabbath a delight
and the holy day of the Lord honorable;
if you honor it, not going your own ways,
or seeking or talking idly...) The Sabbath is for enjoying heavenly things but the other 6 days are for us to do our earthly work and pleasurable activities.
I agree with you that the Puritans were not speaking about the American TG in the WCF. Their point was for us to not make any day except for the Sabbath a holy day since the Scriptures don’t command it. They weren’t saying that people couldn’t have a thanksgiving day or any other type of holiday. They are just warning us to not make special days holy that God hasn’t made holy. Romans 14 addresses this too.
from doing your pleasure on my holy day,
and call the Sabbath a delight
and the holy day of the Lord honorable;
if you honor it, not going your own ways,
or seeking or talking idly...) The Sabbath is for enjoying heavenly things but the other 6 days are for us to do our earthly work and pleasurable activities.
I agree with you that the Puritans were not speaking about the American TG in the WCF. Their point was for us to not make any day except for the Sabbath a holy day since the Scriptures don’t command it. They weren’t saying that people couldn’t have a thanksgiving day or any other type of holiday. They are just warning us to not make special days holy that God hasn’t made holy. Romans 14 addresses this too.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
Chris raised the idea of recreations as a kind of work. I did not and do not disagree.............
It sounds like you're saying that if you call it a holy day, the Puritans don't like it, but if you call it a holiday, they're ok with it.
It would appear that, according to your reasoning, since labour is commanded we must work six days a week. It would then follow that since recreations are nowhere commanded they are thus forbidden.
I'm still not clear on your argument here. Here's what I've got so far.
1. You oppose Thanksgiving. (On what grounds I am still uncertain.)
2. You hold that we are commanded do all our labour during the six days of the week.
3. "Labour" excludes recreations. (In fact, "labour" has so far not been defined, though it would seem to be essential to this discussion.)
1. You oppose Thanksgiving. (On what grounds I am still uncertain.)
2. You hold that we are commanded do all our labour during the six days of the week.
3. "Labour" excludes recreations. (In fact, "labour" has so far not been defined, though it would seem to be essential to this discussion.)
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
I am assenting to recreation as a kind of work/labor. So it is in essence lawful on the six days.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
1. In #30 I wrote
"The burden is on those who would claim a status of special emergent occasion for American Thanksgiving.
Nevertheless, I hold to
"Festival days, vulgarly called Holy-days, having no warrant in the word of God, are not to be continued.
Nevertheless, it is lawful and necessary, upon special emergent occasions, to separate a day or days for publick fasting or thanksgiving, as the several eminent and extraordinary dispensations of God's providence shall administer cause and opportunity to his people."
American Thanksgiving, with its annual observance, institution by Christ's enemy Thomas Jefferson, and refusal to recognize the rightful Object of thanksgiving, is a referent in the first case, not the second.
2. Yes
3. No. I am assenting to recreation as a kind of work/labor.
Forgive me. I misread an earlier post.
You gave the thread this title: "Six Days Shalt Thou Labour," and then opened with these words:
"So much for the half-day-plus celebration known as 'Thanksgiving.'"
Allow me to again ask for clarification. You are opposed to Thanksgiving on the basis that it is not a legitimate "holy day". The title and opening post gave a different impression, however.
Sorry again. I was confused by earlier comments that I had not read carefully.
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OPC'n
Puritan Board Doctor
Not sure they had holidays but we could use the word special day or separate day the way Romans 14 refers to people observing special days.
Just point of historical clarification that Jefferson did not institute but opposed calling a national day of thanksgiving specifically due to his view of separation of church and state and opposition to national religion, though it was sort of expect of him and he got negative press for not doing as Washington had done. Lincoln established the regular national observance.
Bill The Baptist
Puritan Board Graduate
Like many of us it seems, I’m still a bit confused on precisely what you are arguing. Are you saying that Thanksgiving is improper, not because the state lacks the authority to create such a day, but because we are commanded to always work six days a week? So then if our job only requires us to work 5 days, which is the normal standard, are we thus sinning if we take a day off of work in addition to the Sabbath? This strikes me as an odd argument to make. If your desire was to argue against the observance of Thanksgiving, I think there are much stronger cases you could have made than this one.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
They categorically deny that it is a command. They are very clear on that.
ArminianOnceWas
Puritan Board Freshman
The opening post looks like what we call an "internet troll" with too little information to draw conclusions but just enough of a statement to draw people into what amounts to guerilla warfare where the post makes sudden statements and then quickly retreats while choosing to avoid portions of dialogue that shows their arguments vulnerable. I'm not sure this conversation can go anywhere.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
Romans 14 is referring to days that God invented (not like man's TD) and how to think of them corporately during a time of covenantal transition.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
Lincoln, also Christ's enemy.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
Bill, read the posts about recreation as work.
Your last point is correct. The stronger case did come out though.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
You said that before. Then I referred to "command-with-exceptions."
Notice the difference:
1. command
2. command-with-exceptions
#2: The commentators didn't refer to it in the passages you cited.
You would know better than me I guess. I'm just correcting your facts w.r.t. Jefferson and Thanksgiving.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
Looks like.
There have been 45 posts since then.
I'm answering all the questions.
"I'm not sure this conversation can go anywhere" is more like a comment intended to shut down meaningful conversation. It would have been more appropriate as post #2 than as post #47.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
A command that admits of exceptions is, categorically, a command. The commentators deny that the clause in question is, categorically, a command.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
I do not affirm foolish view that it's a command, categorically without exceptions. That is the view which is denied by the commentators.
@HenryHall
OK, take away the baggage that comes from Thanksgiving--i.e. the idea that a godless government proclaims a day of being thankful to a creator. How do you approach other national holidays that end up causing the majority of folks to not go to their regular work?
My approach is simply to take all of these interruptions as providential givens and try to make the most of them. Sometimes that means fellowship with brothers and sisters while fishing or eating. Sometimes it means heavy labor of a different sort. Are these things to be decried too?
OK, take away the baggage that comes from Thanksgiving--i.e. the idea that a godless government proclaims a day of being thankful to a creator. How do you approach other national holidays that end up causing the majority of folks to not go to their regular work?
My approach is simply to take all of these interruptions as providential givens and try to make the most of them. Sometimes that means fellowship with brothers and sisters while fishing or eating. Sometimes it means heavy labor of a different sort. Are these things to be decried too?
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
This is quite a silly thread. Biblically, the general rule of thumb is to work six days. Even if I'm not at my job for six days a week, I've found that I'm generally busy doing something workful, whether yard work, fixing something around the house, or serving my family, etc. I think God is contrasting what the Lord's Day looks like compared to the other days of the week. It's separate and holy, so we don't observe it the way we treat other days as a general rule.
As far as nationalized observances, I think they are a great idea. Even if I'm not at my job, life still has duties and responsibilities. Thanksgiving was relaxing, but I still had workful responsibilities on the day apart from my job. It wasn't holy or separate, but I'm grateful for the opportunity to break from the norm.
As far as nationalized observances, I think they are a great idea. Even if I'm not at my job, life still has duties and responsibilities. Thanksgiving was relaxing, but I still had workful responsibilities on the day apart from my job. It wasn't holy or separate, but I'm grateful for the opportunity to break from the norm.
Henry Hall
Puritan Board Freshman
I try to avoid countenancing the pretended holy day in any way, lest I violate the 4th and/or 2nd Commandments.
Hamalas
whippersnapper
So Memorial Day, Labor Day, 4th of July? All the same in your mind?
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