Should women Teach at Church when men present???

[py3ak]

Brad, I briefly saw your post before you edited it - I wanted to thank you for the gracious tone you adopted in it and rejoice that we had come quite close to a mutual understanding. As I only saw it briefly, though, I'll leave things there so as not to run the risk of misrepresenting you in a reply that depends only on memory.

 

[J. Dean]

Again, what about Anna the prophetess? As I understand it, the role of prophet included a teaching role? What do you say when people point to her and say "See!? Women taught too!"

 

[satz]

Again, what about Anna the prophetess? As I understand it, the role of prophet included a teaching role? What do you say when people point to her and say "See!? Women taught too!"

I think when you read the entire bible in context, there is a obvious exception to the general rule that women should not be spiritual teachers for genunie prophetesses. A real prophetess cannot be not ursuping the authority of men when it is actually God speaking through her. Off course, this would not apply any more today as there are no more prophetesses or prophets.

 

[interalia]

If it is unbiblical, then is a woman ever really teaching a man? There may be more context to exegete in light of Priscilla, Junia, Deborah, Phoebe, Anna, et al., without sacrificing a commitment to absolute Scriptural authority.

 

[OPC'n]

Again, what about Anna the prophetess? As I understand it, the role of prophet included a teaching role? What do you say when people point to her and say "See!? Women taught too!"

I think when you read the entire bible in context, there is a obvious exception to the general rule that women should not be spiritual teachers for genunie prophetesses. A real prophetess cannot be not ursuping the authority of men when it is actually God speaking through her. Off course, this would not apply any more today as there are no more prophetesses or prophets.

That wouldn't really make sense if it started in the Garden of Eden. Just bc she was a prophetess doesn't mean she was a teacher of God's word. It says she worshipped, fasted and prayed night and day, and yes, when she saw Jesus she knew he was the Deliver, but it doesn't say she taught in the synagog. When God poured out His Spirit during Pentecost He poured it on both male and female and they both were prophesying.... most likely of the "wonders of the Gospel" or in other words spreading the Good News but they were not teaching in the church having authority. The only one that really stumps me is Deborah in the OT......

 

[J. Dean]

Again, what about Anna the prophetess? As I understand it, the role of prophet included a teaching role? What do you say when people point to her and say "See!? Women taught too!"

I think when you read the entire bible in context, there is a obvious exception to the general rule that women should not be spiritual teachers for genunie prophetesses. A real prophetess cannot be not ursuping the authority of men when it is actually God speaking through her. Off course, this would not apply any more today as there are no more prophetesses or prophets.

That wouldn't really make sense if it started in the Garden of Eden. Just bc she was a prophetess doesn't mean she was a teacher of God's word. It says she worshipped, fasted and prayed night and day, and yes, when she saw Jesus she knew he was the Deliver, but it doesn't say she taught in the synagog. When God poured out His Spirit during Pentecost He poured it on both male and female and they both were prophesying.... most likely of the "wonders of the Gospel" or in other words spreading the Good News but they were not teaching in the church having authority. The only one that really stumps me is Deborah in the OT......

Deborah, as far as I know, is a political judge rather than a spiritual figurehead. As to her taking over, John MacArthur pointed out that such a scenario was intended to show how bad Israel had become.

 

[Andrew P.C.]

So, for the original post, I guess it depends what they are teaching and how they are viewed. First, a woman can't hold any office. Yes, I know that there are denominations that hold to a deaconess view (which I disagree) but for now lets speak specifically about the office of minister. Just as Christ has a threefold office, Prophet, Priest, King, so do church officers; Minister = prophet, Elder = king, Deacon = priest. The functions of each office is specific in what their roles ought to be. However, some of these offices might seem to overlap, I want to point out some major similarities within the office of minister as prophet. What were the roles of an OT prophet? Giving warnings, exhorting, and proclamation. These men were used by God to speak the very words of God. They knew that they were being used by God to speak His words. They started proclamations by saying "thus says the Lord". Now, what does this sound like to you? It sounds like the same thing you'd hear Sunday morning.

Also, Two passages I'd like to quote:

As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.(1 Cor 14:34-35)

11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.(1 Tim 2)

Somethings to consider: 1) notice how the husband is present in both of these passages(same with the priscilla and aquila passage). This shows that the covenantal familial head is to be present when this takes place. This is nothing new. Scripture throughout shows us that the head is always the spiritual leader of the household. 2) both passages give a command for women not to speak within church. This isn't about a public vs private format(even though I do agree there is an aspect of women not speaking publicly within church). This is about worship.

Well, I wish I could sit here and go further, but I must go to work! I'll continue this later, but I hope this helps.

 

[OPC'n]

Again, what about Anna the prophetess? As I understand it, the role of prophet included a teaching role? What do you say when people point to her and say "See!? Women taught too!"

I think when you read the entire bible in context, there is a obvious exception to the general rule that women should not be spiritual teachers for genunie prophetesses. A real prophetess cannot be not ursuping the authority of men when it is actually God speaking through her. Off course, this would not apply any more today as there are no more prophetesses or prophets.

That wouldn't really make sense if it started in the Garden of Eden. Just bc she was a prophetess doesn't mean she was a teacher of God's word. It says she worshipped, fasted and prayed night and day, and yes, when she saw Jesus she knew he was the Deliver, but it doesn't say she taught in the synagog. When God poured out His Spirit during Pentecost He poured it on both male and female and they both were prophesying.... most likely of the "wonders of the Gospel" or in other words spreading the Good News but they were not teaching in the church having authority. The only one that really stumps me is Deborah in the OT......

Deborah, as far as I know, is a political judge rather than a spiritual figurehead. As to her taking over, John MacArthur pointed out that such a scenario was intended to show how bad Israel had become.

She was a judge and a prophetess and I'm not sure where God states he put her in charge bc of how bad Israel had become since they enjoyed 40 years of peace under her rule if I remember correctly. I'm NOT AT ALL a John MacArthur fan and I don't think he gets some things correct, but I'll try to take some time and read that part of Judges and see if God states he made her judge and prophetess bc Israel was horrid. However, if you look at Israel's track record they didn't exactly soar the heavens with every male ruler they had either.

 

[Tim]

Hi Sarah, here is a relevant verse that you might find useful (Isaiah 3:12):

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

It is not a direct statement on Deborah, of course. There is a bit of interpretation to be done here, but it should provide a good start.