Should single men and women spend their time differently?

[Tim]

A men's forum discussion led me to ask this question:

Should single Christian adult men and women spend their time differently? If so, why and how? If not, why?

Let us assume that we are discussing persons who have no children, and would like to be married someday. Should the activities that take up their time each day and week be different while they remain single?

 

[jogri17]

Best to put us together so those numbers will dwindle down in my opinion .

 

[Tim]

Good comment!

So, you see a place for single men and women to work along side each other. They can cooperate in worthwhile endeavors and get to know one another at the same time.

 

[Peairtach]

Well their time won't be spent regarding the concerns of their spouses or children, anyway, because they don't have any.

Do you mean that their concerns can be more devoted to "spiritual" things?

I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband.(I Cor 7:32-34, ESV)

 

[elnwood]

Let us assume that we are discussing persons who have no children, and would like to be married someday. Should the activities that take up their time each day and week be different while they remain single?

Really, the activities one does and how one ought to spend one's time greatly varies depending on each person's gifts, callings and situation, including marital status and whether they have children. Almost any blanket statement, such as "single married people ought to be doing <blank>", is too simplistic.

 

[TexanRose]

You ask, should single Christian men and women spend their time differently?

My question is, differently from...what?

 

[TimV]

In the sphere of the Church, a male deacon may well wait on tables while in the sphere of the State a woman may well run a University.

 

[Tim]

Let us assume that we are discussing persons who have no children, and would like to be married someday. Should the activities that take up their time each day and week be different while they remain single?

Really, the activities one does and how one ought to spend one's time greatly varies depending on each person's gifts, callings and situation, including marital status and whether they have children. Almost any blanket statement, such as "single married people ought to be doing <blank>", is too simplistic.

Don, what I am trying to explore are appropriate roles for single Christian men and women before they are married. I am not looking for a blanket statement. You are welcome to provide guiding principles that are not simplistic.

You ask, should single Christian men and women spend their time differently?

My question is, differently from...what?

From each other! That is, what are biblical principles for the role of single men vs. women? We can't use the descriptions for married men and women because these hypothetical persons are not married. However, do the eventual husband and wife roles of these hypothetical persons impact their roles while they are still single?

 

[jogri17]

So, you see a place for single men and women to work along side each other. They can cooperate in worthwhile endeavors and get to know one another at the same time.

Yes.


Our church tries to do a weekly bible study where men will take turns leading (headship prep) and the youth together do 2 times a month get together (1 fun social and 1 service project). It works well.

 

[Tim]

Should or may?

I can't decide.

So, you see a place for single men and women to work along side each other. They can cooperate in worthwhile endeavors and get to know one another at the same time.

Yes.


Our church tries to do a weekly bible study where men will take turns leading (headship prep) and the youth together do 2 times a month get together (1 fun social and 1 service project). It works well.

Sounds good.

 

[jogri17]

I do think in the 21st century given the high divorce rates that both men and women ought to pursue higher education if possible (in the leas expensive way without going into debt) or a trade and save up money... While supporting a family is primary the role of the man, work is apart of the creation mandate demands that a girl work to support her lifestyle (whether at home or with other girlfriends in an apartment). I don't think it has to be babysitting or making family meals. It is not uncommon for a husband to ditch his wife with kids and leave her with no trade and that happens in the Church sadly.

 

[Tim]

I don't like your reasoning at all. So, if a girl gets engaged, she should tell her fiance, "I'm developing my career right now in case we get divorced"?

---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

You don't prepare for divorce, you prepare for marriage.

 

[satz]

A woman certainly shouldn't be developing a career in case of divorce, but earning income is part of the role of a wife/woman, as is clearly stated in Proverbs 31. Even if a husband desires his wife to be a full time homemaker (or a woman desires to be full time homemaker), there is absolutely nothing "anti-family" about a woman getting a skill and working a job before marriage.

In fact a godly woman should be working to build up as much saving as possible to take into the marriage (as one of the many things her life will be focused on). As i mentioned in the other thread, I do believe that a few years in the workforce is good training in responsibility, problem solving and dealing with the stresses of an unpredictable life (1 Cor 7:34) even for a future fulltime homemaker.

Off course, the accumulation of debt is another issue altogether..

---------- Post added at 01:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------

Just a random thought, maybe a single family-focused christian woman should be working more at a "job" (i.e. something to pay the bills each month and build up some savings) while a man should focus more on a "career", in terms of aimming for future earning potential, job satisfaction, and taking on debt to obtain education as an investment because it will pay off over the many future years you have to work.

 

[Tim]

Okay, so you are suggesting that skills gained before marriage (even if applied to a non-family end in the workplace) can be useful within marriage as part of the family economy.

Do any women care to comment on specific instances where their marriage/families benefited from skills gained "on the job"? Are there certain jobs that are particularly good for this sort of thing? Would any women care to reflect on things they did that, upon reflection with hindsight, were probably a waste of time?

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

Do any of you wish to comment on skills or experiences you wish your husband had acquired prior to marriage?

 

[satz]

Ideally the skills themselves would be useful, but I think just the experience of working is good in helping young women (and men) to grow up and take responsibility. Something, which I do not think naturally happens at home in our modern nuclear, urban families.

 

[jogri17]

I don't like your reasoning at all. So, if a girl gets engaged, she should tell her fiance, "I'm developing my career right now in case we get divorced"?

---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

You don't prepare for divorce, you prepare for marriage.

I am the child of two divorces, my dad is in a loveless marriage, my uncle was also, I've seen 4 cases of young women in the church who got married get pregnant and because they went to an unaccreditated college or did a bible major/classics/piano, etc... major and their husbands left them and they were left with nothing but debt and kids. You may not like it but it is a reality in the world.

---------- Post added at 09:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------

Okay, so you are suggesting that skills gained before marriage (even if applied to a non-family end in the workplace) can be useful within marriage as part of the family economy.

Ideally no, ideally the women's responsibility is head of the house while the male is head of the family and provides the income (not that he doesn't have household responsibilities of course).

---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------

A woman certainly shouldn't be developing a career in case of divorce

A career no, but basic skills yes. Maybe math classes that could work as an accountant and in case something happened she could support her family and hopefully that could never end, but it is also very practical within marriage.

 

[Tim]

Brother, I understand the reality of things. I am just as grieved about sin in the world as you are. You have my complete sympathy regarding these hardships that you have experienced and that you have seen in others.

However, what you are describing seems to be a non-Christian way of dealing with these issues. Faithful Christians should aim to ensure that they marry someone who values the marriage covenant as much as they do. I believe this lessens the possibility of divorce, abandonment, and the like. No, it doesn't eliminate it all together, but seeking someone who submits to the bible will go a long way to preventing these circumstances because the bible itself speaks against such things.

The bible also gives us a way that the church ought to provide for widows, single mothers, orphans, etc. Thus, the Christian way of addressing these problems should not be exchanged for an overemphasis on a woman providing for herself. These women you mention are not without because they failed to prepare themselves. They are without because a man sinned greatly against them. While it is good for all people to be responsible and capable, I believe you are overemphasizing that a woman strive to become as independent and self-sufficient as possible. I don't believe the bible would have this emphasis.

 

[jogri17]

Faithful Christians should aim to ensure that they marry someone who values the marriage covenant as much as they do. I believe this lessens the possibility of divorce, abandonment, and the like. No, it doesn't eliminate it all together, but seeking someone who submits to the bible will go a long way to preventing these circumstances because the bible itself speaks against such things.

The bible also gives us a way that the church ought to provide for widows, single mothers, orphans, etc. Thus, the Christian way of addressing these problems should not be exchanged for an overemphasis on a woman providing for herself. These women you mention are not without because they failed to prepare themselves. They are without because a man sinned greatly against them. While it is good for all people to be responsible and capable, I believe you are overemphasizing that a woman strive to become as independent and self-sufficient as possible. I don't believe the bible would have this emphasis.

I understand where are you are coming from. I really do, but as I grow older and have seen families break up with in Conservative Reformed Churches, I see no reason to be pragmatic about it when no violation of scripture is required.

I do not believe that divorce is ever wanted or foreseen. If it was the case than nobody would get married, but Christians backslide into horrible sin. It sucks. But it is a reality. I'm sure when my friend got married at first he would have rather killed himself than cheat on his wife, but after a couple of years life happens, and people change and he abbanonded his family, faith, and friends. She got married to him at 18 after high school and they did the whole courtship thing à la Wilson/ Voddie (that guy I forgot his whole name), and luckily she got a minimum wage job from a family in her church. She said if she could it over, she would have gotten an BA and waited to get married. Realizing that it is not 1800 is not a compromise of biblical convictions, rather it is simply trying to be faithful individuals, families, and churches, in a world radically different than the world our grandparents and their ancestors knew.

 

[Tim]

I am not quite sure that I completely get your reasoning , but I think you are saying that women should be more independent these days (and perhaps marry later in life) because of the greater divorce rate. Am I reading you correctly?

 

[jogri17]

I am not quite sure that I completely get your reasoning , but I think you are saying that women should be more independent these days (and perhaps marry later in life) because of the greater divorce rate. Am I reading you correctly?

I am saying that it is legitimate and could be considered wise ( it is in my opinion) and ought to be encouraged to promote courtship during university and hopefully marriage soon after.

 

[Scottish Lass]

Okay, so you are suggesting that skills gained before marriage (even if applied to a non-family end in the workplace) can be useful within marriage as part of the family economy.

Do any women care to comment on specific instances where their marriage/families benefited from skills gained "on the job"? Are there certain jobs that are particularly good for this sort of thing? Would any women care to reflect on things they did that, upon reflection with hindsight, were probably a waste of time?

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

Do any of you wish to comment on skills or experiences you wish your husband had acquired prior to marriage?

My English degree will come in handy when homeschooling Grace, though a degree certainly isn't required for that. I also proofread text for Tim and other Reformed folk.

 

[jogri17]

My English degree will come in handy when homeschooling Grace, though a degree certainly isn't required for that. I also proofread text for Tim and other Reformed folk.

Exactly. That is all I am saying. It is useful, and in case of an horrible event it is there as a backup, plus education is always useful.

 

[Pergamum]

I think single guys ought to play with GI Joe and single girls ought to play with Cabbage Patch Dolls.

 

[rookie]

I am of the personal opinion, that women, should first and foremost learn submission to her parents (respect and all that takes place in Ephesians 5) toward her parents before she meets a potential husband. If she cannot obey and respect her parents (providing they are not breaking the law) she won't do any of them with her husband. And a college or university degree can absolutely be persued before marriage. I don't think women have to stay with mom and dad and cook all the meals till she meets someone. Help around the house, absolutely. The idle single person has great potential to sin. And if something happens that her husband loses his job for whatever reason, she may pick up her career again until he is able to support again.

For the men, they should learn first and foremost to be obedient to the word of God, and not weaver left or right (but remain in humility and grace, and not become either legalistic or shovenistic, which I am struggling with immensely).
He should also be working on activities that will give him either experience and knowledge in supporting his future family. (Gameboy, Xbox, Facebook are not those activities).

And he should also be studying the word, so that when he does get married, he will not rule the house with an iron fist, but with grace and love. Most men these days (I can only speak about in my local town) are not prepared for marriage (at least not the secular world) as they are more interested in going to malls with their pants down to their knees to see who they can pick up.

But when it comes to a young couple that don't have kids, I see nothing in scripture that stops the woman from working if it is a mutual consent, or they have debt that demands both work till debts are eliminated.

I really hope I didn't go to hard, or that I made sense.

 

[Tim]

What are some practical ways single women can demonstrate submission to their parents if they happen to not live with them (perhaps in a different town and church)?

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

He should also be working on activities that will give him either experience and knowledge in supporting his future family. (Gameboy, Xbox, Facebook are not those activities).

Apart from developing his career skills so that he is financially fruitful, how can a young man gain experience in supporting his future family (as husbands/fathers are more than just money-earners)? I am using "support" in the broadest sense.

 

[rookie]

What are some practical ways single women can demonstrate submission to their parents if they happen to not live with them (perhaps in a different town and church)?

Submission to the elders and older women in her church. If she didn't like or listen to direction under her parents rule, it will usually carry over in the church as well.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

He should also be working on activities that will give him either experience and knowledge in supporting his future family. (Gameboy, Xbox, Facebook are not those activities).

Apart from developing his career skills so that he is financially fruitful, how can a young man gain experience in supporting his future family (as husbands/fathers are more than just money-earners)? I am using "support" in the broadest sense.

Working on his patience with others in the church, brothers and sisters at home. And spend lots of time with current husbands and fathers that have experience in that department. And always being ready to lend himself when someone is in need. If someone is in need, and he has the time or means and would rather do whatever pleases himself instead (once or twice shouldn't be an issue, but if a single brother never wants to help anyone out and is always out to build his own agenda, that is what I am talking about) he has either much to learn, or is not ready to sacrifice himself for a wife.

---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

My last post created a gab between your 2 quotes, highlight between them and you will see what I posted about women...in the dark gray...

 

[a mere housewife]

Tim, it is not just divorce rates -- I think a man ought to wish to help his wife provide against a time when he may not (for whatever reason) be able to care for her. Lloyd-Jones points this out in his commentary on Ephesians. The church is often carrying a heavy burden just to provide for its ministers and missionaries; and a realistic concern for the welfare of one's wife in this day and age would lead one not to simply expect the church to be able to pick up the pieces for her if things fall apart. While the Lord will never let her down, one of the means He might use to that end are her own developed skills. The more education she has, the more options she has for less physically demanding work (and perhaps the more options for working at home); and those things should be considered with regard to her gifts and her frame.

Godly parents do often consider these things and that is why many will wish their daughter to have some kind of degree or certification. A girl who is complying with her parents' requests in this regard may well be demonstrating a submissive heart -- not to say that a great many of us aren't infected with the 'career woman' mentality, but just because a woman is well educated does not mean she is so infected.

Most people must expect to deal with a 'learning curve' as they adjust not just to each other but to married life. Single life *does* generally look different than marriage (or Paul's whole argument about singleness being better than marriage makes little sense); so one must expect to work through a certain amount of adjustment to new roles. There will also be immaturity of character which we grow through together, as we face different challenges. I think if one is looking for someone who is already inhabiting many of the duties of the role with maturity (having already learned to face and cope with a number of difficult factors), the single mothers in our churches ought to be considered.

I think Ray's thoughts are sound. I don't think a single woman must always live as if she were under her parent's household authority. But a submissive heart will show itself in her interactions with them in honoring them, and in the way she listens to older women and the elders in her church, etc. Incidentally I also think men should be demonstrating some of this with regard to older men and elders in the church. It's not a good sign for a man to be unable to be humble and conscientious in listening to those that watch for his soul, while insisting on submission in a wife.

I won't probably be able to spend much time defending any of this at present -- it's just my opinion as you asked for female input

 

[rookie]

Awesome that I wasn't way off, and that someone else agreed with my points (BTW, I claim no mastery at what I mentioned above, my wife and I are both sinful people saved by grace, and there are struggles of all kinds). What I mentioned above should be what we (men and women before marriage) thrive for....

 

[Tim]

I won't probably be able to spend much time defending any of this at present -- it's just my opinion as you asked for female input

Great thoughts, Heidi. You have made some very well-reasoned points.

 

[jwright82]

A career no, but basic skills yes. Maybe math classes that could work as an accountant and in case something happened she could support her family and hopefully that could never end, but it is also very practical within marriage.

3 years ago my dad and mom were going to get a divorice and she was very worried about what she was going to do. She was a stay at home mom for over 25 years and knew nothing else. It appeared that Florida was going to take that into consideration by forcing him to pay for some kind of "school" for her. He unfortuanitly solved the "problem" by shooting himself and leaving her his life insurance (a lot of money), very tragic. So I think that states take precautions on this.

As far as the OP goes I think that there are many profitable things a single person can do to prepare for their life. I think that both sexes should read books about the opposite sex to prepare. They should be mentored unofficially by older married couples. They should be about the work of the kingdom until they get married, where their priorties shift. Love is like a smack in the face, you pretty much know it when it happens. So we can be doing "single" person things until it hits us.

I can't speak from personal experience though because I am divoriced with a kid. I am the only single parent in my "Young Couples/Single Parents" group at church, I love it it though and all the people involved. But boundries should be in place to prevent sin. Single people can go on missionary endeavers a little more easily than a family. So obviously males and females should be housed in seperate locations. That goes without saying but I think the principle should be applied to all mixed/single activities. We can mingle but only withen boundries.

---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 PM ----------

Tim, it is not just divorce rates -- I think a man ought to wish to help his wife provide against a time when he may not (for whatever reason) be able to care for her. Lloyd-Jones points this out in his commentary on Ephesians. The church is often carrying a heavy burden just to provide for its ministers and missionaries; and a realistic concern for the welfare of one's wife in this day and age would lead one not to simply expect the church to be able to pick up the pieces for her if things fall apart. While the Lord will never let her down, one of the means He might use to that end are her own developed skills. The more education she has, the more options she has for less physically demanding work (and perhaps the more options for working at home); and those things should be considered with regard to her gifts and her frame.

Isn't that just loving her more?