Should Christians Obey the Speed Limit?
- Thread starter De Jager
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SavedSinner
Puritan Board Freshman
Maybe Christians have a problem with this because so many ministers keep using speed limit signs as examples in their sermons.
Jake
Puritan Board Senior
In normal driving conditions, I go the speed limit ±5mph. There are some roads around me that have a higher limit than I am comfortable with (e.g., a curvy 2 lane country road at 55mph) and some that have a lower limit than people often go, so I limit it to 5 mph over. I slow down more in dangerous driving conditions or when otherwise necessary of course.
De Jager
Puritan Board Junior
Hi Alan,
Thanks for your response. Here is the exact clause in our highway traffic act:
Unnecessary slow driving prohibited
132 (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 132 (1).
The key here is defining 'normal' and 'reasonable'. Should not this vague clause be interpreted in light of the clearly defined speed limits rather than interpreting the speed limits in light of the vague clause 132? The signs clearly say 'MAXIMUM'. So, for example, imagine the sign says Maximum 80 km/h, but the flow of traffic is 95 km/h (this is a very typical scenario).
In my simple mind, every single person in that flow of traffic is breaking the law. Therefore in order for me to keep the law and obey the civil authorities regarding the speed limit, I am forced to impede the flow of traffic.
Do you see my dilemna? The law is very clear, but it seems that it is not enforced. It seems that the authorities should interpret the vague in light of the clear, but it seems that they do the opposite.
Should I do the same?
Alan D. Strange
Puritan Board Senior
I think that the dilemma is one of your own making. I don't think that it's really a dilemma if the executive that enforces speed limit laws (which are by nature and necessity arbitrary) does so with some elasticity. You seem to resent the elasticity and want the "letter of the law" to be enforced. Once this is explained, as it has been (and you clearly give evidence of understanding it) to keep insisting on a wooden application of the law seems problematic for several possible reasons.
I would agree with you if what was not being enforced was something sinful according to the law of God (stealing, killing, etc.), but what is not being narrowly enforced is something that's arbitrary to begin with and it's perfectly proper that it be enforced as the executive sees fits in attending to the sixth commandment (albeit unwittingly these days).
Peace,
Alan
LilyG
Puritan Board Freshman
I think the exception here is also important. Just as excessive speeding endangers, so does impeding the normal flow of traffic.
Many of us forget that.
It certainly must be contextual. It's been a long time since I've been somewhere where the normal flow of traffic exceeded the speed limit. In the Seattle I-5 corridor, normal traffic flow rarely reached the speed limit--usually it was half.
Where I live now, there is hardly any traffic on the highways, but there are vigilant highway patrol officers. Having interviewed them in various cases, I know the unofficially stated rule is to ignore up to 5 mph over the limit. But that is not a sure thing and entirely discretionary with the officer.
I have a relatively new vehicle with cruise control that I set at exactly the speed limit. Sometimes people pass me, sometimes I have to pass them, but my typical two-hour cruises to other venues pass by with hardly any drama other than the occasional wave to a passing trooper who knows me and my vehicle.
I agree that keeping from being a hazard takes priority over being absolutely scrupulous. But when that is not an issue, the clearness of conscience overrides mere minutes of convenience for me.
Where I live now, there is hardly any traffic on the highways, but there are vigilant highway patrol officers. Having interviewed them in various cases, I know the unofficially stated rule is to ignore up to 5 mph over the limit. But that is not a sure thing and entirely discretionary with the officer.
I have a relatively new vehicle with cruise control that I set at exactly the speed limit. Sometimes people pass me, sometimes I have to pass them, but my typical two-hour cruises to other venues pass by with hardly any drama other than the occasional wave to a passing trooper who knows me and my vehicle.
I agree that keeping from being a hazard takes priority over being absolutely scrupulous. But when that is not an issue, the clearness of conscience overrides mere minutes of convenience for me.
moral necessity
Puritan Board Junior
I appreciate this. I remember going through the same struggle of conscience at one time. I used to treat this as a willful sin issue, and even question my Christianity over it. My conscience was very hard on me. When I drove, my principle was to drive the exact same way that I would drive, if there were a cop following me at all times. Anything less would be dishonest. If I had to speed in order to pass a car, I wouldn't pass. And, when I failed, it was confessed as sin. Why would I choose to get so close to that magic number? Now it was willful sin. Don't I love Christ enough to stay away from this sin? Why not go 40 in a 55, just to make sure? What if my speedometer is off by a few mph...maybe I should go 53, just in case. Constantly looking at my speed, and the road. And on, and on, and on...
This went on for several years. The time I knew something had to change was when it almost cost my family their lives. There was road construction on the Interstate for about 10 miles with only one lane open, and, by the time we neared the end, I must have had 50 cars backed up behind me, the first being a tractor-trailer. When the lane opened, I merged right. He proceeded to pass me, except, when his trailer neared my door, he cut right, running us off the road, and onto the shoulder. I'm sure he was very frustrated.
Did God make me a steward of my family, so that I could put them in such an unsafe situation? The purpose of this law is for safety. And, there is no perfect number on the sign that corresponds to that. When it rains or snows, we are expected to go slower. So, I concluded that, when it is normal and safe to go the speed limit, I will go the speed limit. When safety requires that I follow the general trend of traffic, I will do so. And, if doing so happens to lead to a ticket, I will agree that I violated the number, and pay the fine with that explanation.
Blessings!
De Jager
Puritan Board Junior
I agree that the speed limit is somewhat arbitrary to begin with, although I would like to believe that there is some science involved (based on vehicle capabilities, crash statistics, etc.)
There is no law in the Bible which says 'thou shalt obey the speed limit in the land; yea, and thou shalt be exceedingly scrupulous in doing so'. I know this.
There is a law that says we are to obey the civil authorities because they have been given authority by God. Therefore, my understanding is that a traffic law, unless inherently sinful, is God's law, because it has been instituted by a governing body which he instituted.
I am naturally a VERY scrupulous person, bordering on OCD. This plays into a lot of my thinking. But I also must be convinced in my conscience that my actions are 'OK', because anything that is not of faith, is sin. This makes it tough for people like me, whose conscience naturally seems to place many restrictions and prohibitions on certain activities that most people, including Christians don't have a problem with. It at times feels like I am a prisoner of my own mind. Once people re-assure me that some 'grey' is OK, I generally come around but until then, I am a very black and white person.
I will have to read that bit from William Perkins. I thank you for your insights. It is very much appreciated.
Traffic deaths are rising in the US. Take a look at mangled guard rails and other signs of high-speed collisions and you'll see the problem.
This is partly due to lower gas prices and an increase in the percentage of trucks and larger passenger rigs. I also believe drivers fail to see the danger of the unexpected. If you drive much faster or slower than expected, pass in the right lane, or dart in and out of the traffic other drivers cannot anticipate your actions and no one has a safe place to go.
Driving right at the speed limit is sometimes much slower or faster than what other drivers might expect. Within reason, go with the flow.
This is partly due to lower gas prices and an increase in the percentage of trucks and larger passenger rigs. I also believe drivers fail to see the danger of the unexpected. If you drive much faster or slower than expected, pass in the right lane, or dart in and out of the traffic other drivers cannot anticipate your actions and no one has a safe place to go.
Driving right at the speed limit is sometimes much slower or faster than what other drivers might expect. Within reason, go with the flow.
Solparvus
Puritan Board Senior
Just one more reason to leave California
Is there any success with contesting such a ticket? I’d think that ticket would get thrown out by a judge on lack of merit.
Solparvus
Puritan Board Senior
While in Texas I sometimes felt like I was taking my life into my hands every time I got on a Dallas highway, and going the speed limit was not safe. There’s a few daredevils on those highways too, ever so proud of their engines that roar like a ringing thunderblast. And the way they built some of those intersections, it’s move fast or get totaled.
Other situations you have to account for... you are next to a semi, or between them, in their blind spot... get out of there, pronto! The worst thing that can happen is for another driver to not have the presence of mind to quell the danger.
When I first got my license in Michigan my family made fun of my granny-esque driving. When my dad visited us in Texas with my family he could not help but comment on how rough my driving had become. It was a real change. I am back in Michigan, still recovering, and my wife does not clutch the door handle for dear life as much as she used to.
TylerRay
Puritan Board Graduate
I can relate to this, although I haven't undergone a significant move--what has changed is my daily commute to work and my weekly commute to church. I used to be a very gentle driver, but I've learned to be rather assertive.
My wife says that I need a bumper sticker that reads, "Watch out for the dad in the minivan!"
JimmyH
Puritan Board Senior
This thread has me more attentive to my driving since it began. I find that some of the time I observe the posted limit, sometimes I'm 3-5 mph over. Much of the time I am simply keeping up with the flow of traffic.
As for bumper stickers, I've got an old favorite that I've never put on the car ....
"Keep Honking, I'm Reloading."
As for bumper stickers, I've got an old favorite that I've never put on the car ....
"Keep Honking, I'm Reloading."
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
When I lived in Germany I had to take a written test to get my driver's license... over there the police don't stop people for speeding, but they have cameras all over the place that will take a picture of your car if you're going a mere 3km per hour over the limit. Fines are low and and you don't get in trouble unless you're going exceptionally over the limit. The mindset is that paying the "ticket" is simply like paying a toll.
It's an arbitrary law that the state uses as more for generating revenue than for safety. (Some here will remember that in the 70s the speeding limit was lowered not for an appeal to safety but for fuel efficiency and gas consumption.)
Of course, in recent decades our leaders and the "experts" have learned that we'll readily accept whatever governmental intrusion as long as it is linked to "safety" (especially to the "safety of the children").
If you don't mind paying the toll, don't worry about going over the "free usage" limit.
It's an arbitrary law that the state uses as more for generating revenue than for safety. (Some here will remember that in the 70s the speeding limit was lowered not for an appeal to safety but for fuel efficiency and gas consumption.)
Of course, in recent decades our leaders and the "experts" have learned that we'll readily accept whatever governmental intrusion as long as it is linked to "safety" (especially to the "safety of the children").
If you don't mind paying the toll, don't worry about going over the "free usage" limit.
Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
Speeding endangers everyone on the road: In 2016, speeding killed 10,111 people, accounting for more than a quarter (27%) of all traffic fatalities that year.
Doesn't sound like a good idea.
Doesn't sound like a good idea.
Ben Mordecai
Puritan Board Freshman
There are limits to the extent that we can really obey the civil authorities even when they do not command sinful acts. There are simply so many laws on the books that we not only have to hire professional lawyers to help us in tricky situations, we have to hire legal specialists in very narrow fields because there is really no hope for anyone to even know the law at any time. This should put a damper on just how scrupulous we are about following the letter of the secular civil legal code.
The 5th commandment requires the obedience of lawful authorities because God delegates his authority to earthly representatives who in turn have a responsibility to those they exercise authority over and to God for how they use it. The goal of following the law is to make the magistrate's job in maintaining order easier and to show oneself a model citizen and so not profane the name of Christ among the unbelievers.
It seems to me that this question is not so much a question about speed limits as it is about how the nature of lawful authority relates to the type of obedience required.
Take for example, my authority as a father. I have a right to tell me sons what to do within reason and my children have a responsibility to generally obey me. If I were to ask them to sin, they need to disobey me immediately. However, there are some things that I could demand of them which would not be sinful for them to obey but are excessive and unreasonable. For example, I could demand that they labor 16 hours a day and sleep on the floor. They would not be in sin for obeying, but this is a clear abuse of my authority. A child in that situation should not be vexed with conscience if they disobey their father's unreasonable demands. However, a child with a generally trustworthy father should generally obey him even if they don't clearly know why they are being asked. If I ask my children to do housework, they have a duty to obey me.
The speed limit is a difficult law to nail down because some magistrates actually desire disobedience because they want to extract money from drivers. They are abusing their lawful authority of regulating the safety of the public because what they really want is to bring money into their city coffers.
The spirit of the law for the speed limit is that road safety is important. Christians should therefore follow this spirit and not be reckless. But we should not be vexed with nitpicking over 5-10mph here or there as we see best in our judgment.
Just as the spirit of the law of the tithe was that 10% of the food produced would fund the Levites, and yes, technically, this would include your 3 square foot spice garden, the real idea behind the law is that you provide a real substance of food. To be scrupulous in the area of spices is fine, even good, but it should carry with it a stronger desire for the weightier matters.
The 5th commandment requires the obedience of lawful authorities because God delegates his authority to earthly representatives who in turn have a responsibility to those they exercise authority over and to God for how they use it. The goal of following the law is to make the magistrate's job in maintaining order easier and to show oneself a model citizen and so not profane the name of Christ among the unbelievers.
It seems to me that this question is not so much a question about speed limits as it is about how the nature of lawful authority relates to the type of obedience required.
Take for example, my authority as a father. I have a right to tell me sons what to do within reason and my children have a responsibility to generally obey me. If I were to ask them to sin, they need to disobey me immediately. However, there are some things that I could demand of them which would not be sinful for them to obey but are excessive and unreasonable. For example, I could demand that they labor 16 hours a day and sleep on the floor. They would not be in sin for obeying, but this is a clear abuse of my authority. A child in that situation should not be vexed with conscience if they disobey their father's unreasonable demands. However, a child with a generally trustworthy father should generally obey him even if they don't clearly know why they are being asked. If I ask my children to do housework, they have a duty to obey me.
The speed limit is a difficult law to nail down because some magistrates actually desire disobedience because they want to extract money from drivers. They are abusing their lawful authority of regulating the safety of the public because what they really want is to bring money into their city coffers.
The spirit of the law for the speed limit is that road safety is important. Christians should therefore follow this spirit and not be reckless. But we should not be vexed with nitpicking over 5-10mph here or there as we see best in our judgment.
Just as the spirit of the law of the tithe was that 10% of the food produced would fund the Levites, and yes, technically, this would include your 3 square foot spice garden, the real idea behind the law is that you provide a real substance of food. To be scrupulous in the area of spices is fine, even good, but it should carry with it a stronger desire for the weightier matters.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
If you cause a wreck or a road rage incident by impeding traffic, how does that impact on consistent Christian witness.
I remember Sinclair Ferguson speaking once about having to learn some new driving techniques when he moved to Dallas, specifically merging onto the expressway.
Gforce9
Puritan Board Junior
It is funny just thinking about Dr. Ferguson driving in rush hour traffic in a big city....
Alan D. Strange
Puritan Board Senior
This reminds me of riding with Dr. Ferguson (I lived in his house back in the mid-80s when I went to Westminster in Philly) to Tenth Presbyterian Church one Lord's Day and, as we passed a country club golf course, he, who was quite a golfer (but never on Sunday!), remarked, "Look at them, worshipping gods of iron and wood when they should be going to church!"
Off-topic, I know. Mods can move it to the Sabbath section if they wish.
Peace,
Alan
Ben,
Except in the United States most jurisdictions levy points against your license as well as fines. "Win" enough points and you lose your license.
Bill The Baptist
Puritan Board Graduate
Often traffic laws are oddly arbitrary. Here in Ohio, car and truck drivers are required to wear seat belts, but motorcyclists do not have to wear helmets. This strikes me as odd.
Solparvus
Puritan Board Senior
Indeed, the one time in Dallas you get mild traffic is on Sunday morning.
I didn’t know that the firm I first worked at in Dallas was one or two levels below Redeemer Seminary.
As for getting to my work there, what would have otherwise been just a half hour trip was usually over an hour. Always a jam, always an accident on US-75. Going back on topic, it got instilled into me rather early that my safe West Michigan driving habits would not suffice.
This reminds me of riding with Dr. Ferguson (I lived in his house back in the mid-80s when I went to Westminster in Philly) to Tenth Presbyterian Church one Lord's Day and, as we passed a country club golf course, he, who was quite a golfer (but never on Sunday!), remarked, "Look at them, worshipping gods of iron and wood when they should be going to church!"
Off-topic, I know. Mods can move it to the Sabbath section if they wish.
Peace,
Alan
That explains why he made mention of the golf courses near Auchterarder in “The Whole Christ” and in his lectures on the Marrow controversy.
In all seriousness, those lectures were used by God to rub the scales from my eyes.
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Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
You should have taken the train and walked a couple of blocks. I did, when I worked downtown. Not cheap, and slower than an unobstructed trip on 75, but far less stressful.
LilyG
Puritan Board Freshman
Here in California, it is legal for motorcyclists to "lane split," which is insane to me.
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