Featured Sexuality and Early Church

Discussion in 'General discussions' started by A.Joseph, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Freshman

    Please read this article and the comments:
    https://mereorthodoxy.com/augustine-concupiscence-friendship/

    As far as gay desires I see many sides of this debate. Here are my questions:

    Is the label heterosexual a false construct that wound up legitimizing identity (homosexuality) over abominable act (sodomy)?

    Does gay conversion therapy put a secondary outcome (sexual normalization, marriage) over a primary (being whole in Christ and remaining single, celibate and mortified)?

    How does Calvin's view of sexuality compare to Augustine's?

    Is it better for a person with same-sex desire to become straight and married so his/her sexual need/desire can be satisfied in a lawful manner? Is celibecy too difficult a proposition due to the carnal-sexual needs of the creature - weren't we born with the desire to gratify this need?

    I see today's evangelical getting too hung up on gay conversion over the mortification of sinful desire and personal idolatry, or should this go hand in hand? I'm wondering if the true issue is being too self focused and carnally minded over being filled by Christ. But maybe proper use of sexual desire is too gnawing of a need to ignore? I don't know?

    Obviously the revoice group put carnal/sinful needs and desires over the one thing needful and failed to place first/primary things first/primary.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  2. Hamalas

    Hamalas whippersnapper

    Joseph, this is a confessional forum. Please refrain from speaking in tongues.
     
  3. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Freshman

    No takers? I guess to simplify, how do we minister to these individuals ? A non-present and conflicted partner in a traditional marriage is not healthy. How do we help these people mortify these sinful desires without attributing to them too much credence?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  4. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Sexuality is God's ordained means of procreation and pleasure between a husband and wife. Ministering to 'these individuals' should be no different than dealing with any sin issue (in my opinion). 'Feeling alone' is nothing more than coveting, pride and selfishness.
     
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  5. Grant Jones

    Grant Jones Puritan Board Sophomore

    A.Joseph,

    I think we approach it fundamentally the same way we would with someone struggling with other sexual sins. We drive them to look to Christ. We also should make sure they have accountability.
     
  6. arapahoepark

    arapahoepark Puritan Board Graduate

    I do think this is simplistic to an extent. However, it seems to be a given or a right among these who follow the Revoice garbage that those with SSA must have companionship. That is when it ultimately becomes sinful; to view friendship, companionship, whatever, (especially one that is already questionable) as a right.
     
  7. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable Staff Member

    A useful backdrop to the topic:

    http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2018/11/the-statement-on-sjg-explained-9.php

    Context:
    https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/a-statement-on-social-justice.96253/page-7#post-1179416
     
  8. Relztrah

    Relztrah Puritan Board Freshman

    Did I miss something? What is the "Spiritual Friendship movement"?
     
  9. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Boyfriends without benefits. Or some benefits.
     
  10. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Senior

    Putting homosexual men up to line and expecting them not to cross. It’s cruel.
     
  11. Jo_Was

    Jo_Was Puritan Board Freshman

    Just a layman's observation, but I do see that sometimes the evangelical response in OVER emphasizing the need for sexual relationships and marriage not only elevates sexuality in general but can make the individual in that situation feel ostracized. While I acknowledge that there are miraculous conversions in such manner (Rosaria Butterfield as an example), it feels like such an empty promise and disservice to minister by essentially saying that one day being in a heterosexual relationship can/will/should happen if you are truly saved from that sin. In the same way that children are a blessing, yet we don't condemn women who cannot/do not have children as being "unblessed" we can readily see that, practically, the idealized end of a happy, committed, hetero-relationship may not be what a former-gay person gets and so we shouldn't just offer it wholesale as the "alternative." The natural alternative to being a thief is not to become the town banker. The alternative to sin should be fleeing to Christ, resting in Christ, depending on his work to make us whole.

    This idealization of marriage may be, in part, what has influenced the LGBT community to go from a more free-form sexuality from the 60s/70s era, to this more "hetero" "suburban" understanding of love/relationships. But that's not what marriage is about (just sex/attraction), and that's not the picture we should be painting. But instead of offering the key to their open fear of being lonely as either "You can just get a heterosexual relationship" OR offering the Revoice-ish mish-mash of "You can just get in a PG-rated semisexual relationship" we should be answering "Will I be/end up lonely?" with YOU HAVE Christ. YOU HAVE THE CHURCH. And we should be offering ourselves as the body to these individuals who, yes, may never be in a committed heterosexual relationship BUT we call them to daily repentance, build them up in Christ, and remedy what fears they may have of being an incomplete being by reminding them of their completion in Christ, his Kingdom, and his Body. A relationship with Christ and the Church should be the remedy, NOT turning them to having different "feelings" because Christians of all people should now how false and flaky relying on "feelings" can be. If they get to a place like Rosaria, praise the Lord! But statistically, that may not be the case for most.

    We can't keep telling people who struggle with this sin that who they are is defined by their romantic/sexual relationship with another person--because that's already the message the LGBT community is giving them--that's already what's brought them to the place they're at. We should be reminding them that their identity is that of a creature made by a living, powerful, just God and that who they are is dependent on their relationship to the one and only Living and true God who redeems and restores his creation, and who reconciles his children to him.
     
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  12. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Freshman

    Well said! I like how you summed up your compassionate, faithful and comprehensive position.
     

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