Seventh day adventism - books

Discussion in 'Cults & World Religions' started by monoergon, Jan 21, 2017.

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  1. monoergon

    monoergon Puritan Board Freshman

    I've became friends with a Seventh Day Adventist who really takes his denomination's theology seriously. He tried to convince me that the Constantine changed the worship day to Sunday.

    I would like for anyone to recommend books on the following two topics, so I may choose one and give as a gift:

    (A) The best Reformed book(s), in order of preference, that exegetically proves that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. It is important that it also mentions the historical aspect of this debate.

    (B) The best Reformed book(s) that refutes Seventh Day Adventism in general (refutes their various doctrines which contradicts Scriptures).
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  2. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Junior

  3. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    The recommendation that Tim gave would be of help to you no doubt. Giving a book to a person that describes his belief system as a cult alongside other even worse heresies might not be effective. I suggest finding a well laid out extended article or essay written in a winsome way. Maybe print it out with a polite note from you. Sadly I don't have a ready example. In my case I would never dream of giving Roman Catholic friends some of the apologetic material that is out there using the most provocative and vitriolic words possible. That may be appropriate for some situations but not with a friend or family member. I am glad to discuss with friends and family why I am no longer RC and give them material from others that respects the approach I suggested above.
     
  4. monoergon

    monoergon Puritan Board Freshman

    Thank you timfost and ZackF. Hoekema's work is certainly valuable. I have to keep looking for a work that does not use provocative words; one that provides a sound exegetical and historical argument without vitriolic words.
     
  5. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Junior

    I agree with Zach. We don't want to needlessly offend. I'm not sure if Zach has read Hoekema's work, but it is written in a way that I would be comfortable recommending to someone in the SDA church, though you may want to avoid that because of the title alone.

    You will also have to ignore the stats in the book, as they are outdated. The content, however, is completely relevant.
     
  6. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable

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  7. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

    • Informative Informative x 1
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  8. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Puritan Board Doctor

    I think the SDA part of Hoekema's book was also published separately, as were the others. https://www.amazon.com/Seventh-Day-Adventism-Anthony-Hoekema/dp/0802814905

    Another one (also long out of print) is Norman F. Douty's "Another Look at Seventh-Day Adventism" which is fairly large. It was in part a response to D.G. Barnhouse and Walter Martin's acquittal of SDA of the charge of being a cult around 1960. (They had relied on a document produced by some SDA leaders that appeared to be more or less compatible with orthodox Protestantism on most issues. Douty sought to show that this didn't accurately or fully represent SDA doctrine, and that statement was also rejected by some SDAs.) Douty also wrote a book on D.M. Canright, who was an early defector from SDA and who wrote some important critiques of Ellen White, etc, for which he has been villified by SDAs ever since. Douty was a Baptist who was largely Calvinistic but he was a hypothetical universalist. (See the recent thread about Ryle on that issue.)

    There are also several websites by ex-SDAs that contain a lot of material. I don't know that any of them are Reformed. At least one is antinomian by confessional Reformed standards, which is somewhat understandable given the legalism of the SDAs.

    That being said, unless your friend has expressed a willingness to read a book, many who have their mind made up won't touch one that contradicts their views. Some would actually be more willing to "argue it out" with someone who has different views since he is trying to convince you of his position. SDAs, like many cults, are effective because many nominal and "cradle" Christians are not able to defend their views because they haven't been taught or haven't made the effort to learn.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  9. Rich Koster

    Rich Koster Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Maybe a good commentary on Galatians will open his eyes.
     
  10. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    That's an excellent point. Take him directly to the Scriptures and let him contrast with SDA teaching.
     
  11. monoergon

    monoergon Puritan Board Freshman

    That is a great strategy too.
     
  12. Don Kistler

    Don Kistler Puritan Board Sophomore

    Jonathan Edwards has a good treatment in his "The Nature and Perpetuity of the Sabbath." It is in the BOT 2 volume edition.
     
  13. monoergon

    monoergon Puritan Board Freshman

    Great, I found it here.
     
  14. monoergon

    monoergon Puritan Board Freshman

    Has anyone here ever read and could comment on From Sabbath to Lord's Day: A Biblical, Historical and Theological Investigation by D.A. Carson (Organizer)?
     
  15. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    Carson, to my knowledge, does not believe in an ongoing Sabbath principle.
     
  16. monoergon

    monoergon Puritan Board Freshman

    Thank you for informing me; I didn't know that.
    I suppose I'll recommend Jonathan Edward's work to my friend.
     
  17. greenbaggins

    greenbaggins Administrator Staff Member

    The Carson work, as Bruce mentioned (I have it and have read enough of it to know) does not hold to a perpetual Sabbath. I would recommend Ryan McGraw's book on the Sabbath, Nicholas Bownd's Puritan work (reprinted by our own Chris Coldwell), William Dennison's The Market Day of the Soul, Robert Martin's work The Christian Sabbath, Iain Campbell's book On the First Day of the Week, Cawdrey/Palmer Sabbatum Redivivum, and last and least, my own article in last year's Confessional Presbyterian, which has a somewhat lengthy section arguing for the biblical change from Saturday to Sunday.
     
  18. monoergon

    monoergon Puritan Board Freshman

    Wow, Nicholas Bownd's Puritan work is an exhaustive one. That's the kind of work I was looking for. Thanks
     
  19. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

  20. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    Give that to your buddy for a little light reading. I'm looking forward to tackling that later this year.
     
  21. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    The Bownd has remarks on the change of the day but is much more extensive and defends puritan sabbatarianism. It's currently on sale pretty cheap at RHB.
     
  22. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Puritan Board Doctor

    For what it's worth----the Sabbath is certainly one issue with SDAs, and that may be what they lead with. But in addition to that and other legalistic teachings, they also have several other unorthodox teachings, such as investigative judgment, soul sleep, annhilationism, etc.

    I think they probably draw some in because of their strong language against Rome, especially at a time in which most evangelicals seem to think there's not much more difference between orthodox Protestantism and Rome as there is between Baptist and Presbyterian.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  23. Stolarczyk

    Stolarczyk Puritan Board Freshman

    There are a number of difficulties when interacting with somebody who is Seventh Day Adventist, which I suppose is not unique to them but poses some problems none the less. The first thing you have to figure out, is what category of SDA do they fall into. Because in my experience and interaction with Adventists, there is a broad range of beliefs from generally mainstream evangelical, all the way to complete legalism. A lot of determining which category they fall into, has to do with figuring out their opinion on Ellen G. White. Some will dramatically downplay her influence in the movement, while others honor her seemingly almost as much as Rome does Mary. Here are just a few areas you might need to probe into to determine their position.

    - Who was Ellen G. White, and what authority does she have on the church today?
    - What is your relationship to the Old Testament law, and how much of it is binding on a believer today?
    - How is salvation accomplished, and does it persevere because of God or our own will?
    - What is your position on the soul, and is it destroyed in the final judgment or is hell eternal?
    - Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast currently, or will it be the mark at a future point before Jesus returns?
    - Do you have to be within the Seventh Day Adventist church to be saved?

    There are a number of other things you could hone in on, and it really does depend on their stance with some things. You will encounter some who make a very big deal about diet, and will have a huge emphasis on being vegetarian, with no consumption of things like caffeine. While others will simply hold to trying to maintain a "healthy" diet, which simply includes a lot of healthy home-cooked meals and not many trans-fats. I have several friends who are Adventist that are also adamantly King James Only, and who make a very big deal about this issue as well. All that to say, you might find yourself arguing about Bible translations, or the meaning of Daniel's diet in Babylon before you know it because for some these are almost bigger issues than the gospel itself.

    If you read the section of Kingdom of the Cults on Adventism, the other thing that becomes clear is they are wild-eyed Arminians to the core...which explains a great deal of their theology to be honest. This is where the subject of salvation comes about, and it reveals why Adventists tend to drift so strongly toward legalism because ultimately they need to "do" the right things in order to remain saved. As with many cults (And yes, I would classify them as a cult) they tend to have the mentality that they are the true "faithful remnant", and everybody else is who calls themselves Christian, is either an apostate or will only be saved by the skin of their teeth.

    Truly it is sad to see people within such a legalistic system, who think they are following Christ. They get a great number of things "right" in their theology when you look at it. The problem is they get some key things wrong that just cannot be overlooked.
     
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