Setting the mood?

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Herald

Herald

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This morning I heard the following passage used to support the idea of external things like musical accompaniment and dimmed lighting to assist in creating a worshipful mood or attitude:

Exodus 30:34-36 34 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take for yourself spices, stacte and onycha and galbanum, spices with pure frankincense; there shall be an equal part of each.35 With it you shall make incense, a perfume, the work of a perfumer, salted, pure, and holy. 36 You shall beat some of it very fine, and put part of it before the testimony in the tent of meeting where I will meet with you; it shall be most holy to you.

I subscribe to the RPW and do not see these type of things as supported by scripture. Neither musical accompaniment or dimmed lighting do anything to improve my ability to worship. If anything, I find them distracting. Am I making more of this than I should? Is it an RPW issue?
 
God prescribed that type of incense and no other on pain of cutting off from the people. It would also seem to be arguing from the ceremonial 'infantile' worship prescribed in the OT to something similar, though whatever we like that moves us, in the NT.
Herald said:
This morning I heard the following passage used to support the idea of external things like musical accompaniment and dimmed lighting to assist in creating a worshipful mood or attitude:

Exodus 30:34-36 34 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take for yourself spices, stacte and onycha and galbanum, spices with pure frankincense; there shall be an equal part of each.35 With it you shall make incense, a perfume, the work of a perfumer, salted, pure, and holy. 36 You shall beat some of it very fine, and put part of it before the testimony in the tent of meeting where I will meet with you; it shall be most holy to you.

I subscribe to the RPW and do not see these type of things as supported by scripture. Neither musical accompaniment or dimmed lighting do anything to improve my ability to worship. If anything, I find them distracting. Am I making more of this than I should? Is it an RPW issue?
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Herald said:
This morning I heard the following passage used to support the idea of external things like musical accompaniment and dimmed lighting to assist in creating a worshipful mood or attitude:

Exodus 30:34-36 34 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take for yourself spices, stacte and onycha and galbanum, spices with pure frankincense; there shall be an equal part of each.35 With it you shall make incense, a perfume, the work of a perfumer, salted, pure, and holy. 36 You shall beat some of it very fine, and put part of it before the testimony in the tent of meeting where I will meet with you; it shall be most holy to you.
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That is a most unfortunate interpretation of this passage. Come to the Word with your biases prepared, and this is the result.

Herald said:
I subscribe to the RPW and do not see these type of things as supported by scripture. Neither musical accompaniment or dimmed lighting do anything to improve my ability to worship. If anything, I find them distracting.
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I have for much of my life been the willing victim of the emotional exploitation of "evangelical" churches. But whether the music or the lighting (or the fog machines, or whatever else) do anything for the worshipper is beside the point. In Christian worship, what matters is God's command.

An organ (for example) does not make a worshipper more worshipful. In fact it does quite the opposite.

Herald said:
Am I making more of this than I should? Is it an RPW issue?
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If this came from a pulpit, I should grieve that the sheep are being so misled. If the person who said this claims to adhere to the RPW, he does not understand what that means (besides not understanding the passage).

Let us remember that God's commands for our worship are for our own good as well as his glory.
 
NaphtaliPress said:
God prescribed that type of incense and no other on pain of cutting off from the people. It would also seem to be arguing from the ceremonial 'infantile' worship prescribed in the OT to something similar, though whatever we like that moves us, in the NT.
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Chris, that is what I am thinking. Even if external elements are done tastefully the practice opens the door to all sorts of things.
 
Tom Hart said:
That is a most unfortunate interpretation of this passage. Come to the Word with your biases prepared, and this is the result.



I have for much of my life been the willing victim of the emotional exploitation of "evangelical" churches. But whether the music or the lighting (or the fog machines, or whatever else) do anything for the worshipper is beside the point. In Christian worship, what matters is God's command.

An organ (for example) does not make a worshipper more worshipful. In fact it does quite the opposite.



If this came from a pulpit, I should grieve that the sheep are being so misled. If the person who said this claims to adhere to the RPW, he does not understand what that means (besides not understanding the passage).

Let us remember that God's commands for our worship are for our own good as well as his glory.
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Tom, the sad reality is that this is what goes on in most evangelical churches. I would like to say it doesn't occur in Reformed churches, but I know it does.
 
Herald said:
Tom, the sad reality is that this is what goes on in most evangelical churches. I would like to say it doesn't occur in Reformed churches, but I know it does.
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This past Lord's Day the church I attend (not Reformed by any measure) sang, eight times in a row, the same three-line chorus. The backup singers and many in the congregation swayed and waved their arms. (This week the drums were less deafening, which was an improvement.)

That, to so many, is what it means to "set the mood". And it is why man, his heart a factory of idols, is not the one to determine how he is to worship.
 
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Tom Hart said:
This past Lord's Day the church I attend (not Reformed by any measure) sang, eight times in a row, the same three-line chorus. The backup singers and many in the congregation swayed and waved their arms. (This week the drums were less deafening, which was an improvement.)

That, to so many, is what it means to "set the mood". And it is why man, his heart an factory of idols, is not the one to determine how he is to worship.
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Sorry, Tom, I know that’s hard to take.
 
I know a church ;) which has the leader of worship play the piano during the opening prayer. He also is allowed to offer the opening prayer sometimes.
 
Herald said:
Chris, that is what I am thinking. Even if external elements are done tastefully the practice opens the door to all sorts of things.
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I've become convinced that all decorative or sensible items mentioned in the OT are elementary foreshadowing of what was to come in Christ. Now that Christ has come, those scents or artwork at best serve as distractions or at worst, violations of the first table of the law.

A church should still bring it's very best in workmanship and materials to build a place of worship, but that building should enable the eye to see spiritually to Christ, not make the eye stop to contemplate a poor representation in the here and now.
 
The issue of dimmed lighting in and of itself is not, strictly speaking, an RPW issue, but the practice is just stupid and contrary to common sense. As James Bannerman noted, "The Bible was never intended to supplant natural reason in the department of matters essential to order and decency in the Church, as much as to order and decency anywhere else." (The Church of Christ, 1: 368-69)

I would add, however, that if someone is ascribing superstitious holiness to dimmed lighting, as would appear to be the case in the example mentioned in the OP, then it is an RPW issue, as they are ascribing holiness to something that God has not.
 
Herald said:
I subscribe to the RPW and do not see these type of things as supported by scripture. Neither musical accompaniment or dimmed lighting do anything to improve my ability to worship. If anything, I find them distracting. Am I making more of this than I should? Is it an RPW issue?
Click to expand...

I despise mood-setting music, especially during the Lord's Supper. Who has the right, or the wisdom to decide for me what mood is most conducive for my worship on that particular Day? I recently talked to one of our elders about this. Who decides I am supposed to be somber and sad during the Supper. During my years as a Christian, I must have traversed the whole gambit of emotions at the Supper. From joy and near unbelief at the wonder of God including me in the Sacrament,—to fearing nearly for my life as I was brought face to face with my sin against such Grace—to feeling nothing at all—and everywhere in between. Besides. Isn't it God who we are waiting on and not some fleshly stimulation that is as likely to contribute to the deception of our souls as it is to our edification.

Haven't some of you cried when a pet dog dies in a movie? Is that the filling of the Holy Spirit. It used to be that pastor and the people mutually and soberly entered the meeting place hoping and praying that somewhere sometime during the sermon and worship that God would manifestly make His awful presence known to many or even all at the same time. This coming of God by His Holy Spirit is what we desperately need in worship, and it should surely be what we pray and train ourselves to hope for.

1 Corinthians 14:24-25
But if all [or one] prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
​
In our times we experience so little of this that the cumulative memories and expectations of the Church have mostly forgotten what worship should and can be like.
 
Hear the Rev. Stephen Charnock (Works, Vol. 2 pp. 81-83):

[A]fter the divulging of the gospel, the corrupters of religion did not fling off, but preserved the institutions of God, but painted and patched them up with pagan ceremonies; imposed their own dreams with as much force as the revelations of God. Thus hath the papacy turned the simplicity of the gospel into pagan pomp, and religion into politics; and revived the ceremonial law, and raked some limbs of it out of the grave, after the wisdom of God had rung her knell, and honourably interred her; and sheltered the heathenish superstitions in Christian temples, after the power of the gospel had chased the devils, with all their trumpery, from their ancient habitations. Whence should this proceed, but from a partial atheism, and a mean conceit of the divine wisdom? As though God had not understanding enough to prescribe the form of his own worship; and not wisdom enough to support it, without the crutches of human prudence.

Human prudence is too low to parallel divine wisdom; it is an incompetent judge of what is fit for an infinite majesty. It is sufficiently seen in the ridiculous and senseless rites among the heathens, and the cruel and devilish ones fetched from them by the Jews. What work will human wisdom make with divine worship, when it will presume to be the director of it, as a mate with the wisdom of God? Whence will it take its measures, but from sense, humour, and fancy; as though what is grateful and comely to a depraved reason, were as beautiful to an unspotted and infinite mind. Do not such tell the world, that they were of God’s cabinet council, since they will take upon them to judge, as well as God, what is well pleasing to him? Where will it have the humility to stop, if it hath the presumption to add any one thing to revealed modes of worship? How did God tax the Israelites with making idols ‘according to their own understanding,’ Hosea 13:2, imagining their own understandings to be of a finer make and a perfecter mould than their Creator’s; and that they had fetched more light from the chaos of their own brains, than God had from eternity in his own nature!

How slight will the excuse be, God hath not forbidden this or that, when God shall silence men with the question, Where, or when did I command this or that? There was no addition to be made under the law to the meanest instrument God had appointed in his service. The sacred perfume was not to have one ingredient more put into it, than what God had prescribed in the composition; nor was any man, upon pain of death, to imitate it; nor would God endure that sacrifices should be consumed with any other fire, than that which came down from heaven: so tender is God of any invasions of his wisdom and authority. In all things of his nature, whatsoever voluntary humility and respect to God they may be disguised with, there is a swelling of the fleshly mind against infinite understanding, which the apostle nauseates, Col. 2:18 . . . . To conclude; such as make alterations in religion, different from the first institution, are intolerable busy bodies, that will not let God alone with his own affairs. Vain man would be wiser than his maker, and be dabbling in that which is his sole prerogative.​
 
I recall the light-dimming thing during the sermon in my mainline Presbyterian church when I was a small child.
 
Reformed Covenanter said:
if someone is ascribing superstitious holiness to dimmed lighting, as would appear to be the case in the example mentioned in the OP, then it is an RPW issue, as they are ascribing holiness to something that God has not.
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Maybe in some churches the light fixtures just need to be repaired. But in all where I've seen dimmed lights it is done with intent to force an emotional response, the same as the dramatic piano during the Lord's Supper or prayer.

("I see you aren't waving your arms and weeping. Let me help you with that.")
 
The (non-denom) church I left before joining our present church is currently in the process of designing a new building. Talking with my friend there he mentioned that the current debate regarding the architecture was whether or not they should have windows at all, since they'd be able to control the worship environment better if they had complete control of lighting and sound.
 
hammondjones said:
The (non-denom) church
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I read this as "non-demon" which made me wonder about other churches that you attended. :)

I play piano music prior to the call to worship. This is less for mood and more to help people to think about the upcoming songs they will sing, since I play the Psalms/hymns in the bulletin for that day.

During the Lord's supper, the elements are passed out in silence. Besides not wanting to "set the mood," I need time to contemplate what I'm about to do in the supper.
 
Herald said:
This morning I heard the following passage used to support the idea of external things like musical accompaniment and dimmed lighting to assist in creating a worshipful mood or attitude:
Click to expand...

Let me guess, they all attach fringes on the borders of their garments as well? And they do not ever round the corners of their beards?
 
timfost said:
During the Lord's supper, the elements are passed out in silence. Besides not wanting to "set the mood," I need time to contemplate what I'm about to do in the supper.
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What a great point. All elders ought to take note of this when deciding what those who serve the church are doing during worship. For example it not good for the "music team" to be walking off "stage" during prayer for instance. This always reminds me of magic, in that I lower my head to pray and poof the "music team" has disappeared. :)
 
I sometimes wonder if the dimming the lights is an overreaction to the eye-searing use of flourescent lights.

And up until last century, all lights were dimmed because we used candles or the like. Electricity and what not. Architecture was often designed to make better use of natural sunlight. Aesthetics and utility dovetailed on that one.

I don't like the language of "setting the mood." It reminds me of going on a date. I do think there is something to be said for destroying all flourescent lighting.
 
Tom Hart said:
I can't stand them. They give me headaches.
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They give everyone headaches, even the people who are trying to be Stoic and say, "Nah, doesn't bother me." It gives them headaches, too. I know people with bad migraines who literally cannot sit under those lights.

While I don't necessarily believe in candles in worship qua candles, I do believe compared to flourescent lights, candles are a Christian mercy.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
They give everyone headaches, even the people who are trying to be Stoic and say, "Nah, doesn't bother me." It gives them headaches, too. I know people with bad migraines who literally cannot sit under those lights.

While I don't necessarily believe in candles in worship qua candles, I do believe compared to flourescent lights, candles are a Christian mercy.
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How refreshing it is to hear this. In Korea, fluorescent lights are almost the only lights anywhere. Homes are lit up like hospitals. It's horrid.
 
On the surface, the exegesis seems to be such that the incense of the Tabernacle/Temple is regarded as "mood" enhancing. This is fairly absurd, simply as a matter of interpretation. There is no indication whatsoever of this in the text; only something brought to the text (as Tom pointed out) drew it out of the text.

That is to say: since for some time congregations have used incense to create mood, and otherwise stimulate via senses a sort of reverence of a place, or a regard of it as a "sanctuary," when we meet with incense in Scripture then viola! mood-monkeying is legit. As if men hit on incense for use in the church because they were searching the Scriptures?

Incense served a couple of purposes in the Tabernacle (and btw that incense was forbidden in any other context, which would include the synagogue). Unto the senses it symbolized the prayers of the priests and the people; and the main recipient for the odors was (of course) God. Did he need a "mood check?"

The other purpose was that of creating a "smell" or an "atmosphere" for the holy-ground that was otherworldly, i.e. like nowhere else on earth. It was a way of teaching an intersection of heaven and earth there, where the altar was, and the throne of the LORD. There was a fragrance of heaven there, which was not able (nor lawful to attempt) to be anyplace else. That's why the formula was a) prescribed, and b) unique to the courts of the LORD.

We have no similar prescription, nor do we have one place on earth making our worship horizontally directional. The idea that we could extrapolate from the old prescription to come up with either new incense (of our own compound, even if we guessed at making it like the former, or making it unique) or new anything, for the sake of mood-enhancement or any other improvement on our meetings-with-God is preposterous.

"Neither this mountain, nor Jerusalem's," (Jn.4:21) nor any other place is a sanctuary any more at all. But the angels of the LORD ascending and descending where Christ is (where two or three are gathered) makes a Beth-el when he meets his people. What the Word does not provide (for mood or any spiritual motive) is not needed as an element, but is rather harmful to some degree more or less.

A reminder: circumstances of worship are not elements; but neither is circumstance such a category that takes anything we like to put in it to salve our consciences.
 
Nice post! I was actually going to post something similar to this: does playing music in the background at home help you to read / get into the Bible more? I had music on last night (shuffling between nature sounds and "spa" channel...no I don't go to / or like spa's or their music) and it seemed okay. It's not something I normally do but have been interested in having music on more. Lots of good ideas here!

Tom Hart said:
This past Lord's Day the church I attend (not Reformed by any measure) sang, eight times in a row, the same three-line chorus.

That, to so many, is what it means to "set the mood". And it is why man, his heart a factory of idols, is not the one to determine how he is to worship.
Click to expand...

Why are so many songs doing this? It's getting out of hand. Didn't Jesus say something about repetitions?

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

KMK said:
Fluorescent lighting at church is like turkey at Thanksgiving.
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So it's a good thing then? Ohhh wait a minute...cutting turkeys...cutting...someone cut the turkey? Someone cut the lights!!! Someone cut the lights!!!! :banana:
 
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