Seminary without bachelors before hand?

[mjmacvey]

First, I agree with everyone who has replied to the OP about the importance of earning a BA/BS prior to attending seminary. That said, I want to point out that it is possible to gain admission to an M.Div. program and earn an M.Div. degree at an accredited seminary without a bachelor's degree. Seminaries accredited by the Association of Theological Schools (ATS) (including WSC, WTS, RTS, CTS) can admit a limited number of students to the M.Div. program without a Bachelor's degree.

From the ATS Standards:

A.4.1.2 As many as 10 percent of the students in the MDiv degree program
may be admitted without possession of the baccalaureate degree
or its educational equivalent, if the institution can demonstrate by some
objective means that these persons possess the knowledge, academic skill,
and ability generally associated with persons who hold the baccalaureate
degree. Admission of such applicants should be restricted to persons
with life experience that has prepared them for theological study at the
graduate level.

Each seminary has some flexibility in setting the admissions standards for these applicants and some are more rigorous than others. WSC requires quite a bit (if you are curious): MDIV SPECIAL STUDENT

Admission is probational for the first year, after which the student can gain full admission to the M.Div. program. Those who complete the program are granted an M.Div. degree (not a B.Div.). ATS allows this for the M.Div. program (not M.A.s) because it is considered a professional or terminal degree as opposed to an academic degree.

In my 5 years at WSC we have admitted fewer than 10 students to the M.Div. Special Student program. We have denied far more than we have admitted because we see the value of a solid undergraduate education.

 

[charliejunfan]

You cannot get a masters from any accreditated university or seminary with out a BA. You may enroll in SOME seminaries and do the Mdiv program but you will get the title Bdiv or Bth. Patience is a virtue and if you are not willing to get either a BA or a Bdiv and you just want the title maybe you ought to prayerfully reconsider your vocation.

It is not that I am unwilling to get a BA, it is mostly a financial problem
Oh and, no matter what anyone says, Algebra is stupid , I will never need it beyond the ability to grade papers which virtually anyone can teach me.

Some(not necessarily on the pb) have used the "It will teach you discipline" argument which I don't fall for because if I really wanted to learn discipline I would be better off baby sitting children than spending countless hours tearing my hair out because of Algebraic "word" problems that are made up of bland numbers.

Whether I will end up having to do Algebra or not I think I have found a University that I will attempt to apply to .

-----Added 12/17/2009 at 01:16:03 EST-----

After reading all of your replies and studying scripture/theological writings on debt I think I will be applying to a University soon.

Concordia University Chicago offers a major in Theological Languages(Greek, Hebrew, and Latin) and a minor in Philosophy(I may vice versa the one I major in...).
Concordia University Chicago

I think you will all agree that Languages and Philosophy are best when preparing for seminary...

Concordia also has the advantage of being a Christian friendly learning institution as it is a University of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod(My girlfriend brought the school to my attention, her dad is a LCMS pastor ).
Plus Chicago is just really cool!

 

[N. Eshelman]

Personally, as a PRTS grad, I think that it would be VERY RARE for a student to be able to keep up with the cirriculum at PRTS without under-graduate training. The foundations of logic, philosophy, world history, and some language (preferably Greek) are NECESSARY for the academic rigor of Puritan Seminary. I promise!

Plus, as Jeff has noted- they do NOT offer a Bachelor's, but will award a 'diploma'; meaning that you have done the course work- but no degree is able to be awarded without the prerequisites.

Here is what they offer by way of degrees:
Degree Programs - PRTS

Just do the hard work and go to college first. If God has called you to serve- he can get you through a Bachelor's program. You will not regret the foundation, brother.

 

[MLCOPE2]

If the education is the same what benefit would there be to earning a "degree" over a "diploma". If I'm not mistaken it's the preparation for ministry that is key not the title earned.

 

[JonathanHunt]

Non-confessional suggestions: Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (US students), London School of Theology (UK students).

For UK Students:

Far better is the London Theological Seminary, or if you want accreditation, the Wales Evangelical School of Theology (WEST)

 

[Der Pilger]

It is not that I am unwilling to get a BA, it is mostly a financial problem
Oh and, no matter what anyone says, Algebra is stupid , I will never need it beyond the ability to grade papers which virtually anyone can teach me.

Are you absolutely, 100% certain you will never need to know it? What if your plans change down the road and you suddenly decide to go into IT? But don't worry: Unless you major in a discipline that requires it, such as computer science, you more than likely will not be required to study any algebra.

Having said that, I wouldn't write off math as being useless. Studying it can teach you how to think logically and with precision. Not that other disciplines can't do that, but it's just to say that math can be useful even for those who might not have a practical or vocational need to study it.

And besides, isn't math--like all truth--from God?

-----Added 12/17/2009 at 08:33:45 EST-----

After reading all of your replies and studying scripture/theological writings on debt I think I will be applying to a University soon.

Concordia University Chicago offers a major in Theological Languages(Greek, Hebrew, and Latin) and a minor in Philosophy(I may vice versa the one I major in...).
Concordia University Chicago

I think you will all agree that Languages and Philosophy are best when preparing for seminary...

This made me think of something else just now. It's a bit OT, so please bear with me as I think it's important. First off, congratulations on your decision to get your bachelor's degree. Second, as you yourself have indicated, earning a degree is a considerable investment in time, money and effort. With that in mind, I think you would be wise to ascertain your calling to the ministry (if you have not yet done so) before laying out the money and time for a seminary-preparation degree.

 

[jogri17]

Listen my friend, I am 22 and not done with my undergrad work and I am graduating two years later than the average american would because I moved to QUébec to do my undergraduate work in French because of my dedication to the ministry in Québec. I could go off to seminary here in Montréal and get what they call the Bth (Bach. in theology) which is just the M.Div but for those with out a BA however It would be very dumb on my part because the more you rush to seminary without any higher level academic training (i am also studying greek and latin here as an undergrad as well as my degree in French) you may find youself way in and over your head. Can you several 5-10 page papers in a week? You commented that you don't need algebra, yet for most of Church history the requirement that infact required not only pastors be familiar with algebra because of its basic level in mathematics but chemistry, biology, chemistry, astromony, etc... With all due respect sir, with that kind of attitude torwards the natural sciences I can honestly say that very few reformed church would consider calling you. Even pastors whom do not have seminary training are usually men unually gifted and have a firm grasp on the natural sciences (MLJ, Spurgeon, Baxter, etc...). As for financial issues... well i avoided that by going to school in Canada because American schools you pay more and get less. It's supply and demand. They will charge you however much they can if the people are willing and one needs higher level of education to some extent thus because they are horribly regulated by the states so they charge you extreme amounts of money compared to any other university in the world and americans always test on the lower end.

 

[A.J.]

Charles, another advantage I can think of in having a bachelor's degree first is the fact that you will eventually work for your future family. It's obviously less difficult to find a decent job if you have graduated with a college degree.

I almost failed my college algebra but by God's grace I passed and later obtained my bachelor's degree (in the humanities). I'm 22 and am also thinking of becoming a seminary student in the future.

Blessings!

 

[Herald]

Secondary education before seminary is advisable, if not essential, because it equips the student with the necessary skill sets to succeed in advanced learning. I've been appalled at the abysmal writing and critical thinking skills exhibited by men who want to pursue ministry. Having your mind stretched, so that you know how to learn, is just as important as learning Greek or Hebrew.

Are their alternatives to a formal bachelors degree? Yes, but they take extra effort and require accountability. There are ministerial academies such as RBS or MWCTS that require the commendation and oversight of your local church. The student is being mentored by their pastor/elders while taking an academic course load. This is as much a philosophy of ministry as it is an alternative form of biblical training. But even with ministerial academies, the individual needs a well-rounded education. I would argue that education should exceed high school. A mind that has been trained in English grammar and composition will be better prepared to handle doing research and writing papers. A mind that has been trained in college level mathematics will be more able to grasp conceptual subjects like languages. History (ancient, western civilization, modern) will provide the necessary perspective about the world we live in. I could go on, but I'll stop here.

The last thing I will comment on is the motivation behind seminary training. In other words, why do you wish to attend seminary? Have you been under the care of elders who have been able to assess and evaluate your call? Have they recognized in your life, what Spurgeon called, "ministerial graces?" I would counsel every young man who aspires to be a minister of the gospel to submit to their elders in this area. Make known to them your desire and ask for their help. They are under scriptural command to seek out men for this purpose (2 Timothy 2:2).

 

[JDKetterman]

About 8 months ago, I was considering going to seminary without my BA, but I wanted to have more options in seminaries, and most Reformed churches require a bachelor degree.

What I ended up doing is going to a dispensational college where I am challenged all the time. I am getting my degree in Biblical studies. While there is a great deal I disagree with, the school leans towards reformed soteriology. A great thing too is that I'll only have about a year left. So far, its been very rewarding.

 

[Susanna]

I personally would LOVE to find a seminary full of bachelors!



I crack myself up.

 

[BobVigneault]

You crack me up too Sue. Good one. Thanks!

 

[fredtgreco]

Secondary education before seminary is advisable, if not essential, because it equips the student with the necessary skill sets to succeed in advanced learning. I've been appalled at the abysmal writing and critical thinking skills exhibited by men who want to pursue ministry. Having your mind stretched, so that you know how to learn, is just as important as learning Greek or Hebrew.

Are their alternatives to a formal bachelors degree? Yes, but they take extra effort and require accountability. There are ministerial academies such as RBS or MWCTS that require the commendation and oversight of your local church. The student is being mentored by their pastor/elders while taking an academic course load. This is as much a philosophy of ministry as it is an alternative form of biblical training. But even with ministerial academies, the individual needs a well-rounded education. I would argue that education should exceed high school. A mind that has been trained in English grammar and composition will be better prepared to handle doing research and writing papers. A mind that has been trained in college level mathematics will be more able to grasp conceptual subjects like languages. History (ancient, western civilization, modern) will provide the necessary perspective about the world we live in. I could go on, but I'll stop here.

The last thing I will comment on is the motivation behind seminary training. In other words, why do you wish to attend seminary? Have you been under the care of elders who have been able to assess and evaluate your call? Have they recognized in your life, what Spurgeon called, "ministerial graces?" I would counsel every young man who aspires to be a minister of the gospel to submit to their elders in this area. Make known to them your desire and ask for their help. They are under scriptural command to seek out men for this purpose (2 Timothy 2:2).

I would echo this. Unless you are under the care of elders who are assessing your gifts and calling, you should not even be considering seminary much less a fast track through seminary.

To do so is complete foolishness.

 

[Megan Mozart]

Charlie, we worry so much about you and we love you very much. I pray for you every day.

I would say a lot more but it's not my place to do that. You probably know what I would say anyway, no?

 

[N. Eshelman]

I would echo this. Unless you are under the care of elders who are assessing your gifts and calling, you should not even be considering seminary much less a fast track through seminary.

To do so is complete foolishness.

Harsh words from Fred... and I could't agree more! I would talk with your session and presbytery and make sure that you are moving in the right direction. We live in a microwave culture and we WANT IT NOW!

Slow down- discern- do what is right. You are Presbyterian- there is a way that we do these things.

 

[Megan Mozart]

You want an answer to your question? Think about what Matt and I would probably say, as we know you better than anyone else on this board.