Seminary Question

[cyberev]

I am looking at attending seminary and was seeking some wisdom concerning various seminaries. I am a member of the PCA and would obviously like to attend a Reformed seminary. I visited Covenant in May and really liked the seminary but I am weighing all options. If anyone has any recommendations in regards to other seminaries, please respond. Thanks!

 

[PointingToChrist]

You may want to check out Mid-America Reformed Seminary in Dyer, Indiana. They have about five pastor-professors, and a student body of less than 25. I plan on attending next year.

 

[Willem van Oranje]

Go to Greenville, Mid-America, or Puritan Reformed.

 

[Marrow Man]

Cyberev, please fix your signature per the PB rules (see the link in my signature).

Even though I didn't attend either one, I've always been impressed with RTS and Greenville Seminary.

 

[Notthemama1984]

I would be cautious about Covenant Seminary. I personally have never attended, but I have heard concerns from several men whom I have great respect for who graduated from there. One of those men went so far as to say that the best thing about Covenant is the library.

 

[mjmacvey]

cyberev,

I would be happy to talk with your further about Westminster Seminary California. We are a multi-denominational Reformed seminary which primarily serves the PCA, OPC, KAPC, and URCNA (a slight majority of our students are from the PCA). We have approximately 150 students (75% are MDIV) and 12 full-time faculty members, including 3 PCA ministers.

I would be happy to put you in contact with some of our faculty and/or students. We also have funds available if you are interested in visiting (up to $250 after your visit and another $250 if you later enroll).

Feel free to contact me at: [email protected]

 

[lynnie]

You might want to be a little more specific about the real burden and passion of your heart, ie, what you think God might be calling you to. Seminaries have VERY different strengths. Also, the word "Reformed" even in the PCA is very broad. Are you a very strict confessional guy, or more of a Tim Keller guy? Do you have a longing to go work with foreign tribes, or teach kids, or be a pastor ( and even there, is the thought of preaching what excites you, or the thought of working one on one with messed up people who need help?) You like church history and lots of quiet study, or are you a go out and evangelize on street corners kind of guy? You like to argue with smart teenagers, or do hospital visists and pray for old folks? I know a lot of seminary grads and boy are they so different.

WTS Philly for example is trying to move back towards a greater emphasis on training good preachers, but offers less of the "extras" than maybe WTS Dallas- now renamed Redeemer- would offer. I know a WTS grad ( pastor now)that only took one course in three years in practical counseling and said they were ill equipped for working with all the very screwed up people in the church today. ( went back and took CCEF classes for a year). If you are a PCA Jack Miller- New Life/ Keller type, who will burn at the stake for all your confessional exceptions, you might not fit well at all at WSC mentioned above. If you are more conservative and confessional you'd do fine there. So it might help the guys here who went to various seminaries if you can share more about what sense of calling you have long range, and they can tell you about the pros and cons of schools as related to you.

 

[Staphlobob]

I would be cautious about Covenant Seminary. I personally have never attended, but I have heard concerns from several men whom I have great respect for who graduated from there. One of those men went so far as to say that the best thing about Covenant is the library.

Is this Covenant in St. Louis, MO? If so, I know they share library privileges with Concordia (LCMS).

If it is the same Covenant we're talking about, then I wouldn't go there. I was once working on a distance learning D.Min here in Timonium, MD. I found that some of the professors were extremely "entertainment evangelism" oriented. Having gotten past that, they then shut down the site and told me I would have to go to Birminham, Ala. if I wished to continue.

 

[Willem van Oranje]

Before going to covenant seminary, readthis.

 

[Marrow Man]

Before going to covenant seminary, readthis.

The linked site has this:

At Covenant Theological Seminary, we have documented that there are at least two men who are teaching some of the doctrines of the Federal Vision to every M.Div. student at the seminary. This has been going on for around 14 years.

This is a pretty serious charge; is there documentation of this elsewhere? I know Covenant has its problems, but there are also good men there as well. My former Greek/NT prof teaches there for instance, and he is solid, In my humble opinion.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Does any other seminary other than WSC do such an outstanding job of self-promotion over the internet?

Where are the admission guys from all the other Reformed seminaries on PB every time someone even remotely asks about seminaries??

 

[Jack K]

Before going to covenant seminary, readthis.

The linked site has this:

At Covenant Theological Seminary, we have documented that there are at least two men who are teaching some of the doctrines of the Federal Vision to every M.Div. student at the seminary. This has been going on for around 14 years.

This is a pretty serious charge; is there documentation of this elsewhere? I know Covenant has its problems, but there are also good men there as well. My former Greek/NT prof teaches there for instance, and he is solid, In my humble opinion.

Yeah, I think we must not be party to throwing around that accusation. Covenant is a good school. So are the others that have been brought up. None of them advocate teaching the PCA has condemned. Some are a bit more "confessional" than others. Beyond that, each has strengths that could be right for you based on what sort of ministry you hope to do, what strengths you have or need to work on, and what aspects of Presbyterianism most thrill you.

I hope you don't let us just tell you "This one's bad, that one's better." They're all good. You need to learn how each is good, and then you'll see which best fits your situation.

 

[Willem van Oranje]

Before going to covenant seminary, readthis.

The linked site has this:

At Covenant Theological Seminary, we have documented that there are at least two men who are teaching some of the doctrines of the Federal Vision to every M.Div. student at the seminary. This has been going on for around 14 years.

This is a pretty serious charge; is there documentation of this elsewhere? I know Covenant has its problems, but there are also good men there as well. My former Greek/NT prof teaches there for instance, and he is solid, In my humble opinion.

Wes is a godly pastor in the PCA, someone who formally had sympathies with the FV, and the best theologian I know. He is also a member of this board. If you'd like to know why he believes these things about Covenant Seminary, I suggest that you read the evidence he presents in several articles on his blog.

 

[Marrow Man]

Could you give a link or two that shows that FV is being taught at Covenant. Again, that is a serious charge. I'm not denying that it might be happening; I would just like to see of the documentation mentioned (and w/o spending all morning having to dig for it).

 

[larryjf]

Covenant seems like a very good option being that you are PCA.
How has your Session/Presbytery advised you?

 

[Barnpreacher]

Does any other seminary other than WSC do such an outstanding job of self-promotion over the internet?

Where are the admission guys from all the other Reformed seminaries on PB every time someone even remotely asks about seminaries??

If Greenville would give me a free ride for the rest of my time there, I would be on here pushing for them every time someone asked about a seminary.

At any rate, Greenville is always a good option when looking for a seminary education. They also have a very solid distance learning program if you are unable to be on campus. They actually have video-conference classes, so even if you are unable to move to Greenville you can be there in class via video conference (very similar to Skype).

They are confessional, affordable, and have been very gracious to me in my time there. Plus, you get to sit under Dr. Morton Smith. That's quite a bonus when you're weighing all your options. You'll be able to tell your grandkids that you sat and listened to Dr. Smith lecturing on Southern Presbyterianism and Reformed Theology. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[cyberev]

Cyberev, please fix your signature per the PB rules (see the link in my signature).

Sorry about that. I am still feeling my way around.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------

You might want to be a little more specific about the real burden and passion of your heart, ie, what you think God might be calling you to. Seminaries have VERY different strengths. Also, the word "Reformed" even in the PCA is very broad. Are you a very strict confessional guy, or more of a Tim Keller guy? Do you have a longing to go work with foreign tribes, or teach kids, or be a pastor ( and even there, is the thought of preaching what excites you, or the thought of working one on one with messed up people who need help?) You like church history and lots of quiet study, or are you a go out and evangelize on street corners kind of guy? You like to argue with smart teenagers, or do hospital visists and pray for old folks? I know a lot of seminary grads and boy are they so different.

WTS Philly for example is trying to move back towards a greater emphasis on training good preachers, but offers less of the "extras" than maybe WTS Dallas- now renamed Redeemer- would offer. I know a WTS grad ( pastor now)that only took one course in three years in practical counseling and said they were ill equipped for working with all the very screwed up people in the church today. ( went back and took CCEF classes for a year). If you are a PCA Jack Miller- New Life/ Keller type, who will burn at the stake for all your confessional exceptions, you might not fit well at all at WSC mentioned above. If you are more conservative and confessional you'd do fine there. So it might help the guys here who went to various seminaries if you can share more about what sense of calling you have long range, and they can tell you about the pros and cons of schools as related to you.

Thanks Lynnie! I am very conservative and not at all a Tim Keller type. I enjoy defending the faith and helping screwed up people. However, I also like quiet study and research(I already have a M.A. in Organizational Leadership). Hence, I enjoy writing and research.

 

[Wayne]

However, I also like quiet study and research(I already have a M.A. in Organizational Leadership). Hence, I enjoy writing and research.

Well, then, it's settled. You have to come to Covenant and do half your field educ. work in the Historical Center. You could help process the Wes Walters Papers, which focus primarily on Mormonism, but also on other cults. Can't pay anything, but the work is very interesting.

 

[Edward]

I am very conservative and not at all a Tim Keller type. I enjoy defending the faith and helping screwed up people. However, I also like quiet study and research(I already have a M.A. in Organizational Leadership). Hence, I enjoy writing and research.

You might want to consider Greenville, Westminster Philadelphia, and RTS Jackson.

 

[21st Century Calvinist]

Troy,
I am privileged to be a MDiv student at Covenant. I hope you enjoyed your visit last May. Who knows you may even have been in some of the classes I was in! Anyways, feel free to PM me with any specific questions you may have.


Quote from Wayne:
Well, then, it's settled. You have to come to Covenant and do half your field educ. work in the Historical Center. You could help process the Wes Walters Papers, which focus primarily on Mormonism, but also on other cults. Can't pay anything, but the work is very interesting.

Hmm, interesting. Very interesting. Good to know. What a mine of information the PB is. I may just swing by your office! Sometime after next Thursday.

 

[Romans922]

Cyberev, please fix your signature per the PB rules (see the link in my signature).

Sorry about that. I am still feeling my way around.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------

You might want to be a little more specific about the real burden and passion of your heart, ie, what you think God might be calling you to. Seminaries have VERY different strengths. Also, the word "Reformed" even in the PCA is very broad. Are you a very strict confessional guy, or more of a Tim Keller guy? Do you have a longing to go work with foreign tribes, or teach kids, or be a pastor ( and even there, is the thought of preaching what excites you, or the thought of working one on one with messed up people who need help?) You like church history and lots of quiet study, or are you a go out and evangelize on street corners kind of guy? You like to argue with smart teenagers, or do hospital visists and pray for old folks? I know a lot of seminary grads and boy are they so different.

WTS Philly for example is trying to move back towards a greater emphasis on training good preachers, but offers less of the "extras" than maybe WTS Dallas- now renamed Redeemer- would offer. I know a WTS grad ( pastor now)that only took one course in three years in practical counseling and said they were ill equipped for working with all the very screwed up people in the church today. ( went back and took CCEF classes for a year). If you are a PCA Jack Miller- New Life/ Keller type, who will burn at the stake for all your confessional exceptions, you might not fit well at all at WSC mentioned above. If you are more conservative and confessional you'd do fine there. So it might help the guys here who went to various seminaries if you can share more about what sense of calling you have long range, and they can tell you about the pros and cons of schools as related to you.

Thanks Lynnie! I am very conservative and not at all a Tim Keller type. I enjoy defending the faith and helping screwed up people. However, I also like quiet study and research(I already have a M.A. in Organizational Leadership). Hence, I enjoy writing and research.

As am RTS Jackson graduate, I would suggest of all the seminaries that have been mentioned above based on how you have responded here, Greenville Seminary. If you want to talk to Dr. Pipa, I might be able to arrange such a phone call. You can always visit there too.

 

[raekwon]

What do Pastor Naille (and the rest of the session) think, Troy?

 

[Particular Baptist]

What about Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary? Great professors, the most rigorous M-Div. in North America, and Joel Beeke is there!

 

[Notthemama1984]

Why do you say PRTS has the most rigorous Mdiv? Just curious.

 

[cyberev]

What do Pastor Naille (and the rest of the session) think, Troy?

Rae, didn't know that was you until I went to your profile. This has been quite a long process and Todd has been trying to guide me throughout. Today he gave me some info. on the Reformed Evangelical Pastors College in Toledo. I have been investigating that school today. Btw, I enjoyed your message at our church this past winter. Do you have any insight? Nice chatting with you

 

[raekwon]

What do Pastor Naille (and the rest of the session) think, Troy?

Rae, didn't know that was you until I went to your profile. This has been quite a long process and Todd has been trying to guide me throughout. Today he gave me some info. on the Reformed Evangelical Pastors College in Toledo. I have been investigating that school today. Btw, I enjoyed your message at our church this past winter. Do you have any insight? Nice chatting with you

I've been looking at REPC as well. You and I could end up as classmates.

 

[CalvinandHodges]

Hi:

Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, PA has been leading men into the ministry for over 200 years. It is the oldest Reformed Seminary in the United States. It also has a godly array of Pastors/Scholars/Teachers that is unique here in the United States. Here is their link:

RPTS: Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

Blessings in your studies,

Rob

 

[Particular Baptist]

PRTS's MDiv. degree takes four years to complete. I visited there recently and loved the institution and the people there. The school places an emphasis on practical, experiential preaching and as such, it requires it's students to hone their homiletic skills more than others. I believe that by the time a MDiv student graduates, he should have preached 100 times during the period there.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Thanks for the info. Good to know.

 

[Brandon1]

If you are a PCA Jack Miller- New Life/ Keller type, who will burn at the stake for all your confessional exceptions, you might not fit well at all at WSC mentioned above. If you are more conservative and confessional you'd do fine there.

This actually doesn't tell the whole story at WSCAL. Go through the Prof's who would have significant issues with someone like Keller or Miller and you wouldn't find many. Of course there is a more conservative bent, but if you like Keller or Miller you won't get crucified. As a matter of fact, if you have a militant reaction against them, chances are you would receive a rebuke. (Too see a WSCAL prof appreciate Keller, read long time WSCAL prof of NT and PT Dennis Johnson's Him We Proclaim and notice how favorably he portrays him.)

Recognizing this, it is still correct to portray WSCAL as a theologically conservative institution that attempts to teach the Confession and the Bible. When individual professors either agree or disagree with Keller, they will argue their position from both the Confession and Scripture. Even if you don't always agree with their conclusions, they'll provide you with the tools to interact and disagree with them.