Seminary Choice: TMS, Southern or Westminster?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Seeing how you live so close to Cedarville, I would talk to some people there.Get the ins and outs of a lot of different places. I would say (in my opinion) that your best 2 options are TEDS or Southern.

Damon, if you are considering a B&M education I would certainly choose Southern between these two. In my humble opinion, I believe you will receive a better education at Southern and as a Southern Baptist you are going to save a great deal of money.
 
Seeing how you live so close to Cedarville, I would talk to some people there.Get the ins and outs of a lot of different places. I would say (in my opinion) that your best 2 options are TEDS or Southern.

Damon, if you are considering a B&M education I would certainly choose Southern between these two. In my humble opinion, I believe you will receive a better education at Southern and as a Southern Baptist you are going to save a great deal of money.

This is what happens when a thread derails!

Our friend was talking to the person who started the thread, not me. I am currently taking classes through Liberty, although I have seriously considered transferring to Southern. This is simply not possible right now, because of the Ministry work the Lord has given me in this area (there ARE NO B & M Seminaries, with the exception of Southwestern {which is more anti Calvinist than Liberty} close enough for me to attend).
 
If Southwestern is close to you, then Dallas Theological is as well. DTS is more pro-doctrines of grace, but nothing else really in terms of reformed theology.
 
If Southwestern is close to you, then Dallas Theological is as well. DTS is more pro-doctrines of grace, but nothing else really in terms of reformed theology.

I am sorry I did not qualify my Statement: I am 1 hour south of Southwesterns HOUSTON Campus. DTS is about 4 1/2 to 5 hours from me. Not only that, the last time I checked DTS required one to adhere to dispensational theology.
 
No problem. Here is the actual Meta Analysis of the various studies, done by the department of education

http://www.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/tech/evidence-based-practices/finalreport.pdf

And here is a summary, in case you don't want to read through all the data

Study Finds That Online Education Beats the Classroom - Bits Blog - NYTimes.com

Damon, I think for the current conversation the above study would be skewed at best, and possibly not even applicable. The reason being is because seminary studies prepare men for ministry. Other academic programs prepare people for various other fields. Preparation for ministry includes much, much more than academics. The study only measures how distance education compares to traditional higher education in the area of academics.
My point is that in comparing the best way to prepare men for ministry, one would have to look at more than academics.
 
If Southwestern is close to you, then Dallas Theological is as well. DTS is more pro-doctrines of grace, but nothing else really in terms of reformed theology.

I am sorry I did not qualify my Statement: I am 1 hour south of Southwesterns HOUSTON Campus. DTS is about 4 1/2 to 5 hours from me. Not only that, the last time I checked DTS required one to adhere to dispensational theology.

DTS has a Houston Campus and they do not require you to adhere to dispensational theology. I currently go to the Houston campus.
 
No problem. Here is the actual Meta Analysis of the various studies, done by the department of education

http://www.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/tech/evidence-based-practices/finalreport.pdf

And here is a summary, in case you don't want to read through all the data

Study Finds That Online Education Beats the Classroom - Bits Blog - NYTimes.com

Damon, I think for the current conversation the above study would be skewed at best, and possibly not even applicable. The reason being is because seminary studies prepare men for ministry. Other academic programs prepare people for various other fields. Preparation for ministry includes much, much more than academics. The study only measures how distance education compares to traditional higher education in the area of academics.
My point is that in comparing the best way to prepare men for ministry, one would have to look at more than academics.

I believe this is completely wrong. Men need an academic, theological background, BEFORE they start ministry. The study is absolutely applicable. How?

It would mean that people who study through Distance ed., learn Church History better than Resident. Greek and Hebrew Language would be learned better. Theology would be better retained. All of these classes, which contain no practical element whatsoever, are better learned by Online classes, according to this study.

"Preparing men for ministry" starts with academics (M.Div.). These academics, are better learned through Online classes, according to the science. It of course, involves hands on as well, which is better done in a local church, interned under an actual pastor.
 
If Southwestern is close to you, then Dallas Theological is as well. DTS is more pro-doctrines of grace, but nothing else really in terms of reformed theology.

I am sorry I did not qualify my Statement: I am 1 hour south of Southwesterns HOUSTON Campus. DTS is about 4 1/2 to 5 hours from me. Not only that, the last time I checked DTS required one to adhere to dispensational theology.

DTS has a Houston Campus and they do not require you to adhere to dispensational theology. I currently go to the Houston campus.

It would also triple my current tuition (465 X 15= 6975 DTS, vs. 2000 per semester cap at Liberty{15 credits=2000), not counting the huge wasted time of 2 hours a day driving, the couple of hundred dollars per week in gas, etc. All to take classes at an institution which is much farther removed from my beliefs than is my current institution (Liberty is at least Southern Baptist).

Why would I do such a thing? I am in a great learning environment already!
 
If you feel that you are getting what you need from Liberty then by all means stay. I was just pointing out that DTS had a Houston campus. Not intending to imply anything.
 
Distance Education & the Ministry

Is distance education in every way inferior to a traditional “brick and mortar” education? Or are there some advantages that distance education can offer the ministerial student and the church? While we recognize that distance learning is not for everyone and acknowledge that there may be some advantages to a traditional residential form of education, we believe that there are also some clear advantages and benefits associated with distance learning. So does Jerrold H. Lewis, Pastor of Lacombe Free Reformed Church. He has written an excellent article which answers some of the common caveats against distance education and suggests several advantages to this format of learning as it applies to ministerial training.

Distance Learning & the Ministry


If you're interested in a theological education that's Reformed and Baptist, that's affordable, and that allows you to remain in your home church under the mentorship of your own pastoral staff, see Reformed Baptist Seminary.
 
Bob,

That was quite insightful! I have examined nearly 500 candidates for ordaintion over the last three decades. The products of the prestige B&M school in my area leave me decidedly UNIMPRESSED. Almost ANYthing would be an improvement over that!!!

If distance ed were coupled with a rigorous apprenticeship and mentoring program, it would complete quite favorably with most B&M schools in my opinion, for the reasons adduced by Pastor Lewis.

BTW, grads of that B&M school typically enter ministry with upwards of $50,000 in debt. I know of one who came out of there with $100,000 in typically non-dischargable debt.

I am, however, impressed with the smaller schools such as WSC, WTS, GPTS, and PRTS where education and training go hand in hand with ministerial formation.
 
Last edited:
Dennis,

I don't think distance education is the best choice or every person under every circumstance. There are, no doubt, some advantages to a B&M school, especially when pursuing a higher-degree. Nevertheless, with the advances in technology, distance learning schools like RBS can offer churches and ministerial aspirants the option of bringing the training to them, which allows the aspirant to remain under the oversight and mentorship of his eldership and to continue serving as an asset to his home church. RBS won't accept non-ordained men for training unless their pastors agree to be involved as mentor-proctors. We don't want to rob the pastor of his role of mentoring men under him. We desire, rather, to be a servant to the churches, empowering pastors and churches to assume a greater role in providing their men with a good theological education. If anyone is interested in knowing the seminary's philosophy about mentorship, see our "Guidelines & Expectations" here.

Your servant,
 
I am curious when you did your studies at Liberty? Liberty's DE classes have gone through a complete revamp over the last year and a half, and from what I hear (from people who were their before and after), it is completely different. The research and writing requirements are more stringent, their is more interaction required, etc.

I’ve looked again at some of the syllabi online, and they haven’t changed since I took the classes, so I will stand by what I wrote about Liberty’s DL program. I believe the big revamp you were informed about is what they did in 2007-08 when they completed their changeover from 16 week correspondence classes to 8 week online classes.
 
Last edited:
Damon and I have agreed to disagree on the languages issue, but I feel compelled to point out something for those readers who are considering where or how they should attend seminary. The startling argument is being made that distance learning is not some kind of substitute for interactive learning with a teacher, but is a superior method for learning languages. Note carefully that Damon is making this case on the basis of having read through a Greek primer on his own. I am willing to grant the possibility that Damon is an exceptional individual who has gotten as much out of that experience as a student who has a teacher through it with them, providing guidance and correction, but I think that readers should be careful about generalizing overmuch from his experience.
 
Last edited:
I am curious when you did your studies at Liberty? Liberty's DE classes have gone through a complete revamp over the last year and a half, and from what I hear (from people who were their before and after), it is completely different. The research and writing requirements are more stringent, their is more interaction required, etc.

I’ve looked again at some of the syllabi online, and they haven’t changed since I took the classes, so I will stand by what I wrote about Liberty’s DL program. I believe the big revamp you were informed about is what they did in 2007-08 when they completed their changeover from 16 week correspondence classes to 8 week online classes.

As the Syllabi are extremely similar to the same classes from New Orleans Baptist, and even Southern Baptist Theological, (utilizing the same text books, the same type of assignments, etc.), I am curious if your objection is not to the "Baptist" practices of the Schools, rather than the material? I find it odd that although the requirements are basically all the same, and that Southern Baptist Theological also offers 1/3 of it's degree online, that Liberty is the school which gets the head knocking...
 
Damon and I have agreed to disagree on the languages issue, but I feel compelled to point out something for those readers who are considering where or how they should attend seminary. The startling argument is being made that distance learning is not some kind of substitute for interactive learning with a teacher, but is a superior method for learning languages. Note carefully that Damon is making this case on the basis of having read through a Greek primer on his own. I am willing to grant the possibility that Damon is an exceptional individual who has gotten as much out of that experience as a student who has a teacher work through it, providing guidance and correction, but I think that readers should be careful about generalizing overmuch from his experience.

I would like to add to David's remarks, that it is not just "my opinion." The studies demonstrate that Online only students, do better, retain more of what they learn, and are able to apply that information better, than Resident only students, in ANY field (the results were 'across the board' so to speak). Why this is the case is debatable; the facts of it, are not.,
 
I find it odd that although the requirements are basically all the same, and that Southern Baptist Theological also offers 1/3 of it's degree online, that Liberty is the school which gets the head knocking...

Why would I write about S.B.T.S., which I never attended (and incidentally have nothing negative to say about)? Making speculative comparisons about things for which I have no frame of reference wouldn’t be all that helpful.

I am curious if your objection is not to the “Baptist” practices of the Schools, rather than the material?

Ascribing my concerns over the quality of theological education to a motive of anti-Baptist bias is a red herring. I think it also signals the end of our discussion.
 
Last edited:
I find it odd that although the requirements are basically all the same, and that Southern Baptist Theological also offers 1/3 of it's degree online, that Liberty is the school which gets the head knocking...

Why would I write about S.B.T.S., which I never attended (and incidentally have nothing negative to say about)? Making speculative comparisons about things for which I have no frame of reference wouldn’t be all that helpful.

You referenced the Syllabi, which is the for all intents and purposes, the same level of rigor as that of the SBTS. Now, if you say the Syllabus doesn't matter, then why are you using the Syllabus as a basis of comparison? Other changes have occurred, such as smaller classes, mandatory graduate writing classes, etc.

I am curious if your objection is not to the “Baptist” practices of the Schools, rather than the material?

Ascribing my concerns over the quality of theological education to a motive of anti-Baptist bias is a red herring. I think it also signals the end of our discussion.

Brother: I did not mean to imply a bias against Baptists. Historically, from what I have seen, the "extremely reformed" groups (I do not mean this in a negative way), have a different philosophy and methodology on learning, than do the less or non reformed groups. That was all I was saying.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top