Self-destruction the hell of hell

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py3ak

Unshaven and anonymous
Staff member
Writing on Hosea 13:9, John Trapp comments:

Sinne and shifting came into the world together, Gen. 3.12. The woman whom thou gavest me, &c. God must bear the blame of Adam's sin; so must his Decree of Reprobation, still be alledged as the cause of man's perdition. But this covering is too short: for no man is destroyed because he is reprobated, but because he is a sinner: neither are any damned because they cannot do better, but because they will do no better. If there were no will, there would be no hell: and this indeed will be the very hell of hell, that they have been self-destroyers. The worme of conscience (say Divines) that never-dying worme, is nothing else but a continuall remorse, and furious reflection of the soul upon it’s own willful folly, and now wofull misery.​
 

Goodcheer68

Puritan Board Sophomore
The worme of conscience (say Divines) that never-dying worme, is nothing else but a continuall remorse, and furious reflection of the soul upon it’s own willful folly, and now wofull misery.


As I understand it, those in Hell will never feel remorse but like Satan will be completely confirmed in their sin and rebellion. So instead of continual remorse they will continually despise and curse God and therefore will remain in judgment eternally.
 

johnny

Puritan Board Sophomore
I understand that we shouldn't base our theology on a parable, but did not the rich man feel remorse when he asked to send Lazarus back to his brothers to warn them?
 

Peairtach

Puritan Board Doctor
The worme of conscience (say Divines) that never-dying worme, is nothing else but a continuall remorse, and furious reflection of the soul upon it’s own willful folly, and now wofull misery.


As I understand it, those in Hell will never feel remorse but like Satan will be completely confirmed in their sin and rebellion. So instead of continual remorse they will continually despise and curse God and therefore will remain in judgment eternally.

Remorse is different to repentance.


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VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
Remorse is different to repentance.

Exactly. And John's point above is a good example of it.

Thank you, Ruben, for posting the quote. Providentially it is exactly the topic my wife and I were discussing this morning prior to heading off to worship. She said something like, "what can be more hellish than non-stop remorse, contemplating the truth that was before them every day of their lives and yet recalling their rejection of it?"

And when I read the quote later this morning, it resonated with my thoughts on our tendency toward narcissism and its connection to idealism, suicide "holy warriors" who would murder in the name of a god, and zeal for outward good works. The logical outcome of narcissism is that we would rather die than have the glory taken from ourselves. Talk about self destruction.

At the name of Jesus every knee will bow. All will know truth, some to God's glory and some to eternal shame.
 

Goodcheer68

Puritan Board Sophomore
Remorse is different to repentance.
I understand that, but Im still not convinced that remorse is the best expression of the eternal state in Hell. I can see that they will feel extremely sorry for themselves, but I dont think they ever will be regretful of their hate for God- only of their eternal condition.
Maybe Im wrong though.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
Well if those in hell would be genuinely repentant, then they would also readily accept that they are exactly where they should be. That they continue to gnash their teeth at God indicates they are not.
 

MW

Puritanboard Amanuensis
They say prisons are filled with innocent people, that is, they claim innocence. Hell has no innocent people. They are all self-condemned, shown to be without excuse, and filled with shame. They have gone to "their" place, the place of their own choosing, the place which is fit for them, the place in which they know they belong.

The quotation brings out the justice of God in hell from the subjective point of view, that the punished themselves know and feel that God is right in sending them there, and this makes it the hell of hell. God's actions are vindicated by their own reflections.

Hell is an effective punishment for the wicked. The idea that the punished are not brought to a sense of self-conviction and remorse suggests that the punishment has not been adequate enough.
 

ZackF

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
The idea that the punished are not brought to a sense of self-conviction and remorse suggests that the punishment has not been adequate enough.

Cannot the punishment of hell be for, among other things, the lack of self-conviction and remorse?

I've always understood that the eternally perishing wicked wouldn't have "time" for remorse as they remain in perpetual rebellion and never think to even think otherwise. The Truth just makes their rebellion more illustrative and worthy of punishment yet they never change.
 

MW

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Cannot the punishment of hell be for, among other things, the lack of self-conviction and remorse?

I've always understood that the eternally perishing wicked wouldn't have "time" for remorse as they remain in perpetual rebellion and never think to even think otherwise. The Truth just makes their rebellion more illustrative and worthy of punishment yet they never change.

Obviously the rebellious nature is not renewed, but it would be counter-intuitive to the concept of punishment to grant the rebellious nature what it desires. Punishment includes a government which denies the wicked nature what it seeks. That frustration alone would cause "worldly sorrow." A part of the idea of misery is being unfulfilled. Hence the unsatisfied thirst of Dives. He did not have "his good things" to satisfy him and he had excluded himself from the good things which Lazarus sought and found in the Abrahamic promise.
 
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