Discussion in 'Spiritual Warfare' started by Wannabee, Nov 25, 2004.

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  1. Wannabee

    Wannabee Obi Wan Kenobi

    Do you guys think that schizophrenia, manic depression or any of the other psychological diagnosis can be considered a disease?

    Questions to consider:
    What is the definition of disease?
    What are the symptoms of (put your psych. disorder here, i.e. schizophrenia, et. al.)?
    Does this meet the criteria?
    Is it treatable?
  2. Scot

    Scot Puritan Board Sophomore

    Disease is "an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body that affects the performances of the vital functions: sickness"

    I believe that we can classify mental disorders as "diseases."

    There are a wide variety of symptoms for these disorders (depression, anxiety, suicidal tendencies, nervousness, etc.)and I believe that most cases are treatable.

    It would probably depend on each individual case. I believe (looking at this from an alternative or natural perspective) that the majority of cases involve glucose imbalances (low blood sugar) and allergies (usually hidden).

    I'm trying to think of a book that I read about two years ago. I pretty sure it was called "Food & Behaviour." I wish I could remember the author but it escapes me now. It was by a women (I think she is a corrections officer) that works with violent and mentally unstable kids. She was able to successfully treat a large percentage with diet changes (hypoglycemic diet).

    Of course, there could be others factors involved. One thing's for sure, these illnesses are not the result of a Prozac
    or Zoloft deficiency.
  3. Bladestunner316

    Bladestunner316 Puritan Board Doctor

  4. Wannabee

    Wannabee Obi Wan Kenobi


    I appreciate your response. A couple of observations (that might even be questions ;) ).

    I think your definition of disease is good, except I would make it more clear that a disease has to have "observable physical" characteristics. Diseases affect the body. They can affect the mind as a symptom, but they always affect the body directly.

    Having said that, and in resonse to your observations regarding sugar levels as well as other measurable imbalances in the body, any mental challenge that can be diagnosed as being caused by a physical problem is no longer a psychological disorder. It is a physical disorder that has mental symptoms. It should be treatable by a medical doctor.

    This is important because it determines how we will minister to people.

    If someone comes to you and says "I'm depressed" what do you do? Put them on meds? Of course not. Generally, if someone is depressed it's because of the way that they're handling their circumstances. That's a generalization. We also have to recognize that God uses depression in our lives to mold us and shape us. I know that many of us go through depressions, and many great godly men have struggled with this particular challenge. If it isn't caused by a phyical ailment of some sort then it isn't a disease though.

    Same goes for any other psychological diagnosis. A great resource to read up on this is "The Christian Conselor's Medical Desk Reference" by Dr. Robert Smith. While in many points his application of Scripture is inaccurate, he does a great job of explaining the difference between medical science and psychology. Generally, a person who claims or exhibits a "psychological disorder" that does not show any physical cause has a sin issue. It's a matter of them needing heeling of their minds, which only God's Word can do. Usually these people are said to have a "chemical imbalance." Problem is, there is no test to prove it, so they take drugs that take away their perception of their struggle, but not the root cause.

    It may be our inability to deal with sin or life's circumstances (which is a failure to trust in God - i.e. sin) or it may be God moving in our lives to shape us and humble us.

    Something to think about.
  5. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    Not all diseases present themselves visibly, i.e hepatitis, Alzheimers. Blood diseases are generally naked to the eye. Chemical imbalances can be verified through lab tests. Depression is not the same thing as a chemical imbalance. Both can be dealt with spiritually, but one of the two needs (typically) medical intervention. For instance, if one of the brethren had a laceration, we would not pray over it for closure.

    As ministers, It is our responsibility to utilize all of Gods gifts. For instance, if a person I am ministering to has signs of chronic depression; that is, even after ministering to this individual on a number of occasions I do not see any efficacy to that which we have talked about, I would then inquire in regards to health deficiencies and refer the person to his practitioner for a evaluation.

    I would not abandon the council and prayer we had embarked upon. I would use the doctor as a tool to eliminate the idea that there was something physically wrong that may be compromising our work. This is not to imply something physical could ever undermine the power of God; it couldn't! It is quite possible that the Lord was chastening this individual or using this season to draw this individual closer to himself.

    I know that not everyone has a handle on this as not everyone has medical knowledge. It might be difficult for you or some of your colleagues to think along these lines based upon the fact that they are not in the field. This is why I believe it is important and also prevalent in most assemblies where there are medical people whom can be used as consultants in this regard.

    Ultimately, everything has a spiritual root system. The fall caused sin and sin causes sickness and disease.....

    Hope this helps.

    [Edited on 12-4-2004 by Scott Bushey]
  6. Scot

    Scot Puritan Board Sophomore

    The problem that I find myself in at times since I'm in the health field is wanting to minister to spiritual needs as well. I've had a good many people come to me with the problems discussed (anxiety, depression, etc.). I've only given one lady some biblical literature on depression because she professed up front to be a christian.

    What should I do with people? People come to me for nutritional/health advice to help correct underlying problems so they can get off of meds. They're not coming for spiritual advice. I realize these problems are sometimes only spiritual (although a great majority are correctable through nutrition). Should I suggest spiritual counseling if it's evident that the problem isn't health related?

    What if the person is Catholic? I'm not going to tell them to go to their priest! Should I use the time that they're paying me for to give them the gospel? Most people (as we all know) will be unreceptive to that.

    Any thoughts guys?

    Just as an interesting side note, a couple of years ago my doctor (not medical), discovered that a patient's depression was coming from a dairy allergy. When she stopped the dairy her depression left. My doctor always says "Anything can cause anything."
  7. hhtuck

    hhtuck Inactive User


    Hey guys-
    This is really interesting to me since I just got done with my 6-wk Psychiatry rotation (I'm a 3rd year Med Student). I saw a lot of depression, schizophrenia, post-traumatic stress disorder, bipolar disorder, etc. I was on an inpatient unit. Most of the patients had serious impairments which improved dramatically over the course of a few days of medication. There were some others though that definitely had deeper issues to deal with (especially drunkeness).

    Psychiatric conditions are really scary. I hope that I ever have one of those diseases I'll have both godly people to minister to me and competent doctors to treat me.
  8. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    Exactly Jay!
  9. Wannabee

    Wannabee Obi Wan Kenobi

    Hi Scott,

    Everything you said matches up exactly with what I said. My point was that we have to be careful to separate psychiatry from medicine, and that in light of this psychiatry is not what we need. What is needed is godly counsel. If there are tests that verify a physical ailment then it is no longer a psychological issue. Your post seems to agree with this assessment in the substance of what you say, however you seem to think that we are not in agreement (either you misundestood me, I misunderstood you, or we are not in agreement). If it is found that a certain case of schizophrenia is caused by pituitary trouble then it is not a psychological issue, it is a medical issue. The question is, "How will the doctors treat it?"

    Psychiatry deals with what and how someone thinks. It deals with their minds, which is the realm of God, not popsychiatry. Psychiatry has usurped the role of the man (or woman) of God in ministering to peoples' souls. Sure, drugs will mask the symptoms, but they do not deal with the cause. If I'm depressed and take Prozac then I've attacked the depression, not the cause of the depression. If there are no physical problems causing the symptoms then we have a sin issue, not a medical one. The symptoms of these may be dealt with by taking drugs, but they can't be cured by medical science, nor psychiatry for that matter (which is NOT medical science).

    Bottom line - See a medical doctor for your body. See your pastor or other trusted believers for your heart, soul, mind, might, manner of life, and the way to handle sufferings.

    [Edited on 6-12-2004 by Wannabee]
  10. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    Agreed Joe!
  11. larryjf

    larryjf Puritan Board Senior

    I believe there is a huge spiritual dimension to mental disorders.

    I was a manic-depressive until God healed me of it.
    For years i was on heavy doses of lithium.
    Then one day while praying, the Lord put on my heart to stop taking my meds because He has taken care of it.
    I have not had any medication since (it's been years), and i praise God for His immeasurable mercy!
  12. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    Yours is a rare situation. Would you suggest that other schizophrenics move in the same direction? There are droves of Christians that are on medicines. The fall is the cause. Do you believe it is not Gods will that I am on heart medicine? I do not really understand what you mean by, "The Lord put it on my heart to stop tking your meds..."?

    [Edited on 1-1-2005 by Scott Bushey]
  13. larryjf

    larryjf Puritan Board Senior


    I would not recommend that people go off their medicine just because i did. God works with us all in different ways. I think that it is only because of the grace of God that we have these wonderful medicines that can help people.

    When i pray to God i don't only talk, i also listen. When i was praying to God He told me to go off my meds.
    He didn't actually "speak" to me, but i don't know of a better word to describe it since "he put it on my heart" was confusing to you.

    The bottom lines was that after my prayer, i was assured of God's healing touch in this area of my life.

    This is a praise to God. The fact that i am actually healed speaks volumes as to God's healing power.

    And, yes it is because of the fall. But that does not mean that there is no spiritual dimension to it.

    Whether or not it is spiritual makes no difference in God's ability to heal - with or without medicine. But that's God's call, not ours. We cannot just decide to go off medicine, it must be God's choice.

    Look at how Jesus healed lunatics in Mat 4:24 and 17:15
  14. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    Thanks for your response. I am curious. Were you not diagnosed by medical professionals? I am in the field and I know that chemical imbalances are verified via lab values. If God did in fact heal you, would He not have confirmed that through the medical professionals whom implemented the medicinal therapy? Please understand me, I am not trying to challenge your faith here, but alot of people read these threads.

    You mention Jesus and how He healed the lunatic. Agreed. God still heals today in like manner. However, in my case, I would only come off the heart medicine I take if a doctor verified God did in fact heal me, i.e. lab tests, ultrasounds, stress tests etc.

    [Edited on 1-1-2005 by Scott Bushey]
  15. larryjf

    larryjf Puritan Board Senior

    There are no "chemical" tests for manic depression (at least not when i was diagnosed). But i was diagnosed by 4 professionals.
    The first one to speak to me was a psychologist.
    Since he could not prescribe medicine, he sent me to a psychiatrist - who agreed with his diagonsis of bipolar disorder.
    Then, he moved out of town, and his replacement took over my case - and he agreed with the diagnosis.
    When my insurance plans changed because of a new job, i got a new psychiatrist who also agreed with the diagnosis.
    The only reason i do not have the "medical profession" confirming this is because in the last year or 2 of my bipolar disorder i was not seeing a psychiatrist, but receiving meds from my GP (that's another story altogether - my psychiatrist actually told me not to come see him any more, kind of strange, huh?)

    I agree whole-heartily. I was a young christian at the time, and would handle things differently at this stage of my christian life. If the same thing were to have happened to me now, I would have consulted my doctor about going off of the meds, and allowed him to monitor me however he wanted to.
    Me just "going off" the meds was more a result of my spiritual immaturity.
  16. Wannabee

    Wannabee Obi Wan Kenobi

    Good observation Larry. If there were verifiable tests to PROVE your condition was a chemical imbalance then it would no longer be in the realm of psychiatry. It would be a medical issue and treatable by a medical doctor. Purely psychological diagnosis are based on theories and hypothesis, not on proven medical facts. This is why any behavioral disorders that cannot be irrufutably tested by the medical profession should be dealt with on a spiritual level. The psychiatric field has usurped the roll of the Word of God as applied by His faithful servants.
  17. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    The human brain is complex. It is not surprising that medical science has little knowledge of what goes wrong there outside of the obvious, i.e. tumors etc. I believe it is inaccurate to say that these psychosis are only spiritual. For instance, it is a proven medical fact that by applying a chemical, the proposed lack of chemical, i.e. chemical imbalance, is 9 out of 10 times resolved. The patients are no longer manic, they no longer hear voices and the paranoia which was so prevalent is virtually gone. The medical community at large is on this page. schizophrenia's and depression are linked to a lack of certain chemical compounds in the brain. Even if we as believers want to believe that these disorders are spiritually based, why is it that non spiritually based therapies, i.e. medicines, work so effectively? Who is to say that God does not intend to use these medicines to deal with the spiritual dysfunction. Just because it is something that occurs within the archives of our mind does not make it a non physical disorder. The mind and our physicallities are Inextricably linked.

    [Edited on 1-1-2005 by Scott Bushey]
  18. turmeric

    turmeric Megerator

    Hold on, hold on...The Bible says that Jesus cured demoniacs -either He did or didn't, either that was the cause of their symptoms or it wasn't. We believe that the original autographs are inerrent, so we don't have much of a choice here. Let's don't throw the baby out w/the bathwater.

    Obviously, there are chemical imbalances that should, if we knew more, be treatable by the family doctor or a neurologist, but there's always a spiritual component to anything that happens to us because we are spiritual as well as biological.

    I'm sure what Larry experienced was a physical healing of his brain. Why it happened to him and not someone else, I don't know. It's on a long list of things I don't know.
  19. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    I have to say that while I do believe there are actual medical conditions that result in mental/spiritual issues, and that can be solved by medical means (i.e. surgery or medicine), I have never been impressed with the "chemical imbalance." As far as I know, this is a huge catch all category used by secular science to describe "we have no idea what this is, but it can't be spiritual or the result of sin - since sin doesn't exist."

    The medicines prescribed in such instances are mere symptom masking, and often only work for a short while. Ed Welch's book Blame it on the Brain is an excellent nouthetic resource.
  20. larryjf

    larryjf Puritan Board Senior

    The "seperation" between the physical and spiritual worlds is something of western thought, and i don't think that it was the mindset of or Lord Jesus Christ.

    He walked through this world as if the physical and spiritual were inseperablely joined together. We never hear Him saying "is this a spiritual or physical problem?"

    The idea that things are either of the spiritual or physical can undermine the fact that Jesus is Lord of all.

    The real question is, "what is the ultimate reality?" - and i would have to say that the spiritual is the ultimate reality.

    In the bible the spirit world is everywhere, and in every day life.

    The post-apostolic fathers took the realm of the demonic so seriously that they automatically took new converts from paganism through rites of deliverance from evil supernaturalism.

    To me the notion of "that is a physical problem" is really just an excuse - i think the spiritual trumps the physical.

    Let us not forget that the warfare we are involved with is that of the spirit.

    2Co 10:4 - For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.

    I think when we try to fight in the flesh (physical world) or focus has been shifted.
  21. turmeric

    turmeric Megerator

    But Let\'s DO Throw Out the Bathwater!

    There's a lot of this "deliverance" that ends up being deliverance to rather than deliverance from. It is impossible for a believer to be demon-possessed as the Holy Spirit is in residence; however a believer can be very "mentally ill" and it may be for spiritual reasons. I think we should always pray for someone in such a trial and assume that God can heal and may see fit to do so, however I don't think "deliverance" , as practiced by some groups, needs to be a formal part of everyone's conversion experience - the Holy Spirit makes the regenerate heart a hostile place for demons! The reason we struggle with temptation is that Satan can find something in us - which unfortunately is part of us- that he can appeal to.
  22. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    What you say is true. It is also my belief that the term C.I. is probably used to describe a laundry list of symptoms. Whether they are a result of sin or not is irrelelvent to the fact that there are generally positive results from the medical community and that which they prescribe, i.e. medicines. It would be one thing if in fact, the results were hit or miss, but they are not. It is a fact that generally speaking, schizophrenics respond positively to a family of medicines. These medicines do not just zombify the recipients. The patients have massively lowered symptoms, and very few side effects, i.e. dry mouth, insomnia.

    Having said this, could it be solely spiritual? Is a cancer? An Arthritis? An allergy? My heart condition? Surely it can be possible. But God sometimes uses the mud and spit of physicians to restore his saints.......leaning to one side or the other too much can be error. Those things which can be measured with a measuring stick should be dealt with in said manner. Those things which can't, well thats another story; let us pray. However, in the case of the mind and it's so called conditions, notice how the schizophrenia's are a medical conundrum, yet they respond well to medicinal therapies. To say that just because they have no measuring stick to guage the disorder, then it must be a spiritual condition solely is in my opinion, silly and doesn't reflect any less or more faith than the saint who goes for the medicines to treat the disease than the one that doesn't.

    Jesus the apothecarian:

    Joh 9:6 Saying these things, He spat on the ground and made clay out of the spittle, and anointed clay on the blind one's eyes.
    Joh 9:7 And He said to him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, which translated is Sent. Then he went and washed, and came seeing.

    Mar 7:32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him.
    Mar 7:33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue;
    Mar 7:34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
    Mar 7:35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain.

    Mar 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
    Mar 8:23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
    Mar 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

    [Edited on 1-1-2005 by Scott Bushey]
  23. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    I have to tell you; I believe what you say above. It seems that when I am at myy worst, that is when the enemy attacks that physical defect in my body.

    ~You know the word of faithers swear by this idea. "Don't even mention it, the devil will hear you- claim the healing, by the blood of Jesus".

    *I am no way mocking the w.o.f. movement in many ways. I do claim the blood of Jesus on my infirmiries, and as meg said, I believe we could be a tad selective in that which drive us to unfaithfulness.
  24. Wannabee

    Wannabee Obi Wan Kenobi

    Scott, I am apposed to much of what you've said simply because the mind is the soul. This is not the realm of shrinks, it is the realm of God's Word, and if properly applied the we have spiritual victory. Psychiatry simply is not medicine, in fact it isn't even science by definition.
    Think about this for a minute. If we are to take this tack then we are denying the sufficiency of Scripture. Simply put, "disfunction" itself is a term without spiritual application. Furthermore, this claim says that those who are without access to these medications are incapable of spiritual victory... or that only those with access to these medications have the types of spiritual conditions that these medications treat. This takes us away from applying God's Word to treat sin. That's what it all comes down to. Psychologists administer drugs to treat sin and build self esteem. This simply doesn't work, and denigrates the Gospel.
  25. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    What do you mean, "properly applied"? Victory everytime? What if God decree's the illness?

    Joe, just to clearify; Psychiatry is medicine. These people are medical professionals. Are you confusing psychiatry with psychology? How have you come to this conclusion? Is it because the mind is so mysterious and based upon that, since no one can know the mind, it must all be quackery?

    If someone in your family was schizophrenic, where would you send them? To a neurologist??? He'd just refer you out to a psychiatrist. You didn't respond to the fact that these mysterious disorders are generally cured when these non medical professionals apply medicine. Who is to say that God does not intend to use these medicines to deal with the spiritual dysfunction. (There's that 'd' word again)

    Joe, I disagree. Did not Timothy have a stomach dysfunction?

    1Ti 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.) ESV

    dys·func·tion also dis·func·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ds-fngkshn)
    Abnormal or impaired functioning, especially of a bodily system or social group.

    Why would you think my approach denies the sufficiency of scripture? Please expound?

    All diseases and dysfunctions are secondary to the fall. Cancers are. Can anyone have spiritual victory over these things without the medicines; yes, if God wills. Generally, how is cancer treated though? If I was dx w/ cancer, I know John MacArthur would not tell me to just pray about it and wait upon the Lord. How many people do you know who have not had chemo or radiation for their cancers? It would be an injustice for a believer to not get treatment. God has gifted our doctors, as he has our politicians, we should use them to our benefit. I am not saying that people without these avenues are at an disadvantage. I believe God deals with these events seperately.

    Joe, did not the apostle tell timothy to take some wine for his stomach? Luke was a doctor. Jesus used mud and spit. Was there not such a thing in Israel as "balm"? I suggest you do a search on the term 'balm'; you will see that it is no less spiritual to use medicine as it is if you don't. From what you pose, anyone whom takes medicine has a lack of faith. Don't you think that Believers whom have cancers are persevering with prayer also. How about those Christian doctors whom are praying with their patients for the 'balm' to glorify God. I do not see how you think that by taking medicine it is contra-biblical or less glorifying to God.

    Am I misunderstanding you?

    [Edited on 1-3-2005 by Scott Bushey]
  26. turmeric

    turmeric Megerator

    :up: There's such a thing as common grace! What's this "spiritual victory" stuff?
  27. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member


    I believe it is completely possible to deal effectively with the symptoms by means of medication in "chemical imbalance" situations. But dealing with the symptoms is not the same as the cause. There are medicines that can make the gravely ill person feel fine until he drops dead.
  28. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritanboard Commissioner

    All disease is secondary to the fall-right? Cancers etc? Just because I have not extrapulated the need for prayer initially as well as continually throughout the treatment series does not mean I discount it and it's result. Take for granted (since I am a believer) this is how I think. Now, does this change my thinking in regards to plan of treatment? No. As I have said previously, I believe God ordains and decree's; even the doctors, nurses and treatments. All health issues are dealt with and measured (generally) symptomatically. Medicine is a practice. It is based upon gathering information resulting in an outcome. Sometimes, dealing with the symptom, treating the symptom IS dealing with the cause. Example: Mr. Smith is chronically tired. He goes to Dr. Scott. Dr Scott performs the generall exams, i.e physical, scans, labwork. The labs reveal Mr. Smith has an under active thyroid. Dr. Scott prescribes thyroid replacement therapy. I digress a tad. What is the true cause of Mr. Smiths non functioning thyroid disorder? Well, that lies in the genetic strand and ultimately in the lap of the Lord. Should it be dealt with prayer-yes. Faith-yes. Without medicine? No! Who says that God has not decreed the medicine??? Mr. Smith's fatigue is generally dealt with. Dealing with the symptom has dealt with the cause....

    This is the normal pattern to deal with the gravely ill. Generally, the patient is placed in a palative setting, i.e. hospice care. In laymens terms, what you describe is called "snowing" the patient. It is a merciful and caring treatment option that is left up to the patient and family. Example: Patient 'A' has an incurable cancer. The cancer causes severe pain. Tx: morphine. No more pain, no more cares. In many ways, God uses even this as one of His graces. Why should people be in intractable pain? Fred, I believe you are misunderstanding me possibly. What would your plan of treatment be?

    [Edited on 1-4-2005 by Scott Bushey]
  29. Wannabee

    Wannabee Obi Wan Kenobi


    You did misunderstand me a little. By definition a desease is physical, not mental. It can affect one mentally, but the cause is physical. In this case their is a medical treatment of some sort.

    In the case of the mind though, there are no tests to prove that there is a chemical imballance. Even psychologists admit that most of what they do is simply trial and error. They cannot prove that someone suffering from a certain "mental dosorder" is the "victim" of chemical imballance. It's all based on hypothesis. Please research this. I'm not just making this up or relying on some back alley information.
    "The Christian Counselor's Medical Desk Reference" would be a good place to start. "A Theology of Christian Counseling" would also be a good read, as well as "Introduction to Biblical Counseling."

    If I had a family member who was "diagnosed" with clinical depression or some other illness I would send them to a medical doctor to be tested for any physical causes and treat it as a spiritual condition. If the doctor could find nothing I would NEVER send them to a psychologist (I do understand the difference, but find neither any more palatable:um: ). Psychiatry (or psychology) and the Gospel are simply incompatible.

    And as for the "spiritual victory" comment. The only spiritual victory is through the Gospel, not through drugs! That was the point.

    [Edited on 4-1-2005 by Wannabee]

    [Edited on 4-1-2005 by Wannabee]
  30. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member


    My reference to symptom masking medicines would not be with respect to those who are incurable and simply made "comfortable." I am referring to those who mask the symptoms because they think there is no cause. Those who believe in psychology and psychiatry do not believe in sin. There is ONLY a medical solution. Therefore they believe all that is to be done is to get rid of the symptom. It may very well be (often is) that God uses that symptom to highlight the fact that there is a real problem.

    We have bad things happen to us for a reason. What would you think of a doctor who came up with a medicine that completely did away with the pain of burning? There is a reason that we experience pain when we are burned. It is so we take our hand from the source of the heat, which is damaging us. The pain is not the worst thing - the damage to our skin, nerves, etc is.

    I echo Joe's comments. If you haven't read Jay Adam's books, you should do so. As I said, Ed Welch (who is a family GP with 40+ years of experience) also has excellent material, including "Blame it on the Brain"
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