"Savior . . . especially of those who believe"

[Kim G]

1 Tim 4:10--"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

There is a sense in which God, through Jesus Christ's death, is the Savior of all people, and there is a sense in which He is the Savior especially of those who believe. Both are true, and neither should be minimized.

I'm still working through my definition of the intent/extent of Christ's atonement. Someone said the above quote to me recently. What say ye?

 

[toddpedlar]

1 Tim 4:10--"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

There is a sense in which God, through Jesus Christ's death, is the Savior of all people, and there is a sense in which He is the Savior especially of those who believe. Both are true, and neither should be minimized.

I'm still working through my definition of the intent/extent of Christ's atonement. Someone said the above quote to me recently. What say ye?

The simplest explanation (not the fulness of what I would argue on this, but I have limited time today) is that it is clear that since a) only those who believe are saved and b) not all believe, then clearly Christ cannot be said to be "Savior" to those who will not believe in the same sense as (perhaps, and this is a secondary sticking point) he is to the elect.

This does NOT argue at all for an atoning work on Christ's behalf for all people indiscriminantly (which is often how I've heard it used, though for the life of me I can't understand how anyone actually thinks it DOES speak for universal atonement).

More later, perhaps - but wanted to make this point at least.

 

[A5pointer]

Kim, I see you are at it with the guys on the fundie site again, LOL, watch out they will drive you crazy.

 

[Poimen]

Jesus is the Savior of all men insofar as he is the only Savior through whom men might be saved.

I don't see that this text is speaking of the extent of the atonement as much as it is speaking of the necessity of the atonement for those who will be saved (i.e. believe) cf. John 3:16 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

 

[a mere housewife]

Kim I wonder if some of this isn't also an emphasis in the New Testament on the extent of the New Covenant as opposed to the old -- ? I am not sure how to put this and so am very hesitant to say more, lest I put it wrong. But the old covenant was much narrower in its compass than the New: Christ is the saviour of the nations: the gospel is to be preached to everyone. There is a 'brave new world' because of His baptism of death, burial, and resurrection; and it has 'such people in it' -- the human race, like the rest of creation, is being restored and saved as elect individuals are baptised into Him. I don't think that is going too far--I'm sure if it is, someone will correct me .

 

[Kim G]

Kim, I see you are at it with the guys on the fundie site again, LOL, watch out they will drive you crazy.

Actually, being that I grew up a fundie and my husband goes to a fundie school and I attend a fundie church, I don't consider myself "at it" with them. In fact, I am much more comfortable in that arena.

Since I never thought through my doctrine before now, I feel it would be wrong to jump into learning every aspect of Reformed theology while failing to learn the fundie theology of those around me. I grant the same respect to both groups of believers and know that God's Spirit will guide me into truth.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

It would be reasonable to gloss the term "specially" as "particularly" or even "uniquely".

In other words, it is one thing to think of Christ as THE Savior of the world, after all there is no other comparable. But of WHOM is he the Savior? Does he save those who hate him to the last? Who reject him? Or who are not allowed even to hear about him, that they might believe?

No, he is the Savior of BELIEVERS, a class within the universe of discourse, the world.

 

[Hippo]

I would tie this passage in with ones like 2 Peter 2:1

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. 2 Pe 2:1

There is a sense in which the Bible speaks of the temporal salvation of the visible church or perhaps the whole world that is seperate from decretal salvation of the elect. If you confuse the two concepts you end up on the FV road.

On first sight (and I will be thinking about this) this passage appears to be relating to some aspect of what is often called "common grace". This worries me as I had just decided that I did not agree with the concept of "common grace", so back to the drawing board for me.

 

[greenbaggins]

In my opinion, it is best to leave the term "salvation" of the decretally elect.
This is always the safest way to go. The question really is this: what kind of benefits, if any, do the non-elect receive from Christ's atonement? The answer must be that if there are any benefits, none of them are saving in any sense whatever.

 

[Hippo]

In my opinion, it is best to leave the term "salvation" of the decretally elect.
This is always the safest way to go. The question really is this: what kind of benefits, if any, do the non-elect receive from Christ's atonement? The answer must be that if there are any benefits, none of them are saving in any sense whatever.

I could not agree more.

The Bible does however on occasion speak of salvation in a somewhat wider sense and this must be addressed so as not to cause confusion or conflation where such conflation is not proper.

 

[larryjf]

Doesn't this have to do with God's common grace to all, and His special grace to the elect?

 

[toddpedlar]

Some would say so.

 

[MW]

The best way to learn about the atonement is to seek to understand the many texts of Scripture which speak directly to the subject. 1 Tim. 4:10 says nothing about Christ's atonement, and therefore has no bearing on the intent or extent of it.

 

[CarlosOliveira]

The best way to learn about the atonement is to seek to understand the many texts of Scripture which speak directly to the subject.

George Smeaton's two vol. set entitled "Christ's Doctrine of Atonement" and "Apostles' Doctrine of Atonement" surveying whole NT texts are invaluable for this purpose.

 

[MW]

The best way to learn about the atonement is to seek to understand the many texts of Scripture which speak directly to the subject.

George Smeaton's two vol. set entitled "Christ's Doctrine of Atonement" and "Apostles' Doctrine of Atonement" surveying whole NT texts are invaluable for this purpose.

 

[Christusregnat]

Kim,

This is a constant theme in Paul's discourses in Acts, and in his Epistles: God is the Savior of all men.

What's critical to note is that the term "savior" in the Greek denotes one who preserves, keep, protects, etc. In this sense, the Romans referred to their civil rulers as their "saviors". It is in this sense that Johnny Rotten said "God save the Queen". This means, God keep and preserve her.

The meaning would then be that God is the preserver and keeper of all men, with special attention being paid to the elect.

God the savior of all men can be seen here, as an instance in Paul's preaching:

Acts 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: 16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. 17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

See also Acts 17:22ff.

Ephesians 1, says much the same: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church.

Christ's universal government is with special reference to "them that believe", viz, the church.

The Scriptures recognize God as the preserver and keeper of all men. This is the doctrine of divine providence, in my opinion, rather than the doctrine of the atonement which Paul speaks of here.


Godspeed,

Adam

1 Tim 4:10--"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

There is a sense in which God, through Jesus Christ's death, is the Savior of all people, and there is a sense in which He is the Savior especially of those who believe. Both are true, and neither should be minimized.

I'm still working through my definition of the intent/extent of Christ's atonement. Someone said the above quote to me recently. What say ye?

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

I cracked open a few commentaries and other works dealing this verse:

Westminster Confession of Faith, Chap. 5.7:

Section 5.7.—As the providence of God doth, in general, reach to all creatures; so, after a most special manner, it taketh care of his church, and disposeth all things to the good thereof. [1 Tim 4:10; Amos 9:8-9; Rom 8:28; Isa 43:3-5,14]

Westminster Larger Catechism:

Question 63. What are the special privileges of the visible church?

Answer. The visible church hath the privilege of being under God's special care and government; [Isa 4:5-6; 1 Tim 4:10] of being protected and preserved in all ages, notwithstanding the opposition of all enemies; [Ps 115:1-2,9; Isa 31:4-5; Zech 12:2-4,8-9] and of enjoying the communion of saints, the ordinary means of salvation, [Acts 2:39; Acts 2:42] and offers of grace by Christ to all the members of it in the ministry of the gospel, testifying, that whosoever believes in him shall be saved, [Ps 147:19-20; Rom 9:4; Eph 4:11-12; Mark 16:15-16] and excluding none that will come unto him. [John 6:37]

John Collinges in Matthew Poole's Annotations:

for God, who is the Saviour, that is, the Preserver, of all men, the Preserver of man and beast, as the psalmist speaketh, is in a more especial manner the Saviour of those that believe, Ps 33:18-19. This seemeth rather to be the sense of the text, than to understand it of eternal salvation, for so God is not the actual Saviour of all; besides that the text seemeth to speak of a work proper to the Father, rather than to the Son.

Benjamin Andrews Atkinson in Matthew Henry's Commentary:

he is the Saviour of all men. (1.) By his providences he protects the persons, and prolongs the lives, of the children of men. (2.) He has a general good-will to the eternal salvation of all men thus far that he is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. He desires not the death of sinners; he is thus far the Saviour of all men that none are left in the same desperate condition that fallen angels are in. Now, if he be thus the Saviour of all men, we may hence infer that much more he will be the rewarder of those who seek and serve him; if he has such a good-will for all his creatures, much more will he provide well for those who are new creatures, who are born again. He is the Saviour of all men, but especially of those that believe; and the salvation he has in store for those that believe is sufficient to recompense them for all their services and sufferings.

English Annotations:

V. 10. Saviour of all men] God in generall not only faveth all men, but beafts alfo. Pfa. 36.6. Saviour is here taken for protecteur or preferver, becaufe he conferveth all men in their naturall and temporall being in generall: but he is faid the Saviour efpecially of thofe that beleeve, becaufe hee is the conferver of them in their eternall and fpirituall being: hee conferveth all creatures in their eftate, men in their wayes and callings, but the faithfull in the ftate of grace: he preferveth all creatures from diforder and utter confufion, all men from manifold calamities and miferies, but the faithfull from the power of sin and death.

Dutch Annotations:

10. in the living God, who is a preferver of all men, [Gr. foter, which word fome here tranflate Saviour. But feeing God is the Saviour of none but believers, Joh. 3.36. and elfewhere, therefore it cannot be here taken in that fense, but onely for a protector and preferver, as the Greek word fozen is oftentimes taken in generall for all kind of preferving and keeing, yea Pfal. 36.6, 7. to praife the goodnefs of God towards his, it is faid alfo, that he faveth beafts and men] [but] efpecially believers.

1560 Geneva Bible:

The goodnes of God declareth it felf towarde all men, but chiefly towarde the faithful by preferuing them: and here he meaneth not of life everlafting.

David Dickson:

Secondly, God is the Saviour of all men, as it is faid, Pfal. 36. Thou preferveft man and beaft, by his general goodnefs nourifhing and fupporting all men, making his Sun to rife upon the juft and unjuft: But chiefly and upon a more fpecial ground, the Saviour of beleevers, who relying upon his promifes concerning the happinefs of the life to come, renounce and reject humane inventions and opinions even in the dangers of perfecution, and follow after the exercifes of godlinefs.

John Trapp:

Who is the Saviour of all men] Not of eternal prefervation, but of temporal refervation. For every man fhould die the fame day he is born, the wages of death fhould be paid him prefently: but Chrift begs wicked men lives for a fesion, faith one. Sin hath hurled confufion over the world, brought a vanity on the creature. And had not Chrift undertaken the fhattered condition of the world, to uphold it, it had fallen about Adams ears, faith another Divine.

Specially of thofe that believe] Who therefore are in a fpecial manner bound to obferve and obey him. Among the Romans there that were faved were wont to crown him that faved them, and to honour him as a father all their daies. We muft alfo fet the crown upon Chrifts head, Cant. 3.11. and obey this everlafting father, Ifa. 9.6.

John Diodati:

The Saviour] or, the preferver of mens naturall and temporall beeing in generall, and efpecially of the everlafting and fpirituall beeing of his children.

Patrick Fairbairn:

In this direction also points the further description given of God: who is the Saviour of all men, especially of those who believe. The term Saviour () represents Him as the deliverer and preserver of life; but in what sense, or to what effects, must be inferred from the connection. As the living God, He may be said to be the Saviour of all men, since by His watchful and beneficent providence they are constantly delivered from destruction and preserved in being. Actually He is not more to all men, although more in manifestations of goodwill and acts tending toward salvation, since He sets before men generally, and often even presses on their acceptance, the benefits of a work of reconciliation, which, from its essential nature, is perfectly sufficient to meet the necessities of all, and recover them to life and blessing. As it is in the character of a Saviour-God that He does this, there seems no valid reason why it should not be comprised in the sense we put upon the apostle's language. Yet, as the language indicates rather what God actually is to men, what they actually receive from Him, than what He reveals Himself as ready and willing to give them, we are led by the natural and unconstrained import of the words to think mainly of the relation in which God stands to men indiscriminately as the Author and Preserver of their present life. And from this as the less, the apostle rises to the greater. From what God is and does in behalf of such as are dependent on Him for the common bounties of providence, he proceeds to indicate what God is and does besides, in respect to those who are related to Him as His redeemed in Christ -- the Saviour, especially of those who believe: in them the character of God as Saviour reaches its proper culmination. Put in the form of an argument, the idea might be thus expressed: If in that character God does so much for sinful and unbelieving men, how much may He not be justly expected to do for His own chosen people, who are partakers of His grace, and have trusted in His word! In their case there is nothing to hinder the outgoings of His loving-kindness, or to restrain the riches of His beneficence, but everything rather to encourage them to expect all from His hand. Expressing the Father's mind towards them, our Lord said, "I have come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" (John x. 10).

George Swinnock, The Pastor's Farewell in Works, Vol. 4, p. 83:

God's providence extendeth to all his creatures; it is like the sun, of universal influence, but in a special manner it is operative for the safety of his saints:[6] "He is the Saviour of all men, (that is, in respect of preservation or temporary salvation,) but especially of them that believe," 1 Tim 4:10.

[6] Deus sic curat universes quasi singulos, sic singulos quasi solos.—Aug.

Thomas Manton, Sermon on Eph. 2.10 in Works, Vol. 2, p. 387:

[4.] This workmanship on us as new creatures far surpasseth that which maketh us creatures only. That came from his general goodness, this from his peculiar love; there it is goodness, here it is grace: 2 Tim 1:9, "He hath called us with an holy calling, according to his own purpose and grace." Creatures are sustained by his common providence, but new creatures by his special care and covenant: "He openeth his hand, and satisfieth the desire of every living thing," Ps 145:16. But he especially preserveth and supplieth believers, 1 Tim 4:10. He giveth others bodily comforts; but these, soul-refreshings and spiritual graces, Eph 1:3.

Thomas Manton, Exposition on Isaiah 53 in Works, Vol. 3, p. 328:

The worst, at least, enjoy a reprieve by Christ. In this sense it is said, 1 Tim 4:10, "We trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, especially of them that believe." Such as is spoken of, Ps 36:6, "O Lord, thou preservest man and beast;" by a common salvation and preservation. And the word {GK}, which is usually applied to Christ as Mediator, is used there to hint that it cometh by Christ; though it be a common mercy, it is from him.

John Gill, The Cause of God and Truth, Vol. 1, pp. 160-161:

SECTION 46

For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.—1 Tim 4:10.

These words stand among others; which are[1] said to contain, in express terms, the doctrine of general redemption. But,

1. If these words represent God, as the Savior of all men, in the sense of a spiritual and eternal salvation, they prove more than any, unless Origen and his followers, contend for, namely, an universal salvation. To say that Christ is the Savior of all men, with respect to the impetration of salvation for them, though not with respect to the application of it to them all, is a distinction, which must, in part, make the death of Christ in vain; nor can a mere possibility of salvation, nor a conditional one, nor a putting of men into a salvable state, be intended; for then they that believe, would be only in such a precarious and uncertain state; whereas it is certain, that he that believeth shall be saved. Besides, if God is the Savior of all men, in the sense of eternal salvation, then he must be the Savior of unbelievers, contrary to many express passages of Scripture; such as John 3:18,36; Mark 16:16; Rev 21:8.

2. The words are to be understood of providential goodness and temporal salvation; which all men have a share in, more or less. God the Father, and not Christ, is here called the living God, who is the Savior of all men, that is, the preserver of all men; who supports them in their being, and supplies them with all the necessaries of life; and especially them that believe, who are the particular care of his providence; for though he is good, and does good to all men, yet more especially to the household of faith; which was the foundation of the apostles trust in him, under all their labors and reproaches, which attended the preaching of the Gospel. Which sense of the words is perfectly agreeable both to the analogy of faith, and to the context, and is owned by some[2] who are on the other side of the question.

[1] Whitby of Redemption, p. 113. Ed. 2. 111.
[2] Volkelius de vera Relig. l. 2. c. 7. p. 10. See also Crellius de Deo, c. 19. p. 133.

Thomas Boston, Christ the Saviour of the World in Works, Vol. 6, pp. 297-299:

II. I shall open this character, Saviour of the world, in which Christ was sent; and for that end inquire into two things. 1. In what sense Christ is Saviour of the world. 2. What is the business committed to him as such.

First, In what sense Christ is Saviour of the world. A saviour is a name of honour, and a name of business. It is an honourable thing to save and help the miserable; to be destined, appointed, and called to that employment: but the honourable post has business annexed to it; it will not do without activity, which success is expected to attend, as in the case of a teacher, physician, and the like. Now, one may be a saviour, even as a teacher or physician, of a society, two ways. (1.) In respect of office, as being called to and invested with the office of saving, teaching, or curing that society. And thus one is saviour, teacher, or physician of that society, before ever he save, teach, or cure any of them. In this respect one may be called an official saviour, teacher, or physician. (2.) In respect of the event and success, as actually and eventually saving, teaching, and healing. As the former ariseth from an appointment put upon such a one; this ariseth from the work he manageth in virtue of that appointment. In this respect one may be called an actual and eventual saviour. Thus it is said, Neh 9:27, "And, according to thy manifold mercies, thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hands of their enemies." This premised, we say,

1. Our Lord Jesus is the actual and eventual Saviour of the elect only, in whose room and stead only he died upon the cross, according to the eternal compact passed between him and the Father, in the covenant of grace, otherwise called the covenant of redemption; for these are not two, but one and the same covenant. Thus the apostle calls him "the Saviour of the body," Eph 5:23, that is, of the elect, who make up the body whereof he was appointed the head from eternity, and in whose name he contracted with the Father in the eternal covenant. And he is their Saviour eventually, as actually saving them, Matt 1:21, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus; for he shall save his people from their sins." None but these will ever truly employ him as a Saviour, or put their case in his hand: and there are none of them but will certainly employ him sooner or later, Acts 13:48, "As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed." John 6:37, "All that the Father giveth me, shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out."

2. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the official Saviour, not of the elect only, but of the world of mankind indefinitely; so our text calls him "Saviour of the world." Agreeably to which, God in Christ is called "the Saviour of all men," but with a speciality, "the Saviour of them that believe," 1 Tim 4:10. The matter lies here: like as a prince, out of regard to his subjects' welfare, gives a commission to a qualified person to be physician to such a society, a regiment, or the like; and the prince's commission constitutes him physician of that society; so that though many of them should never employ him, but call other physicians, yet still there is a relation betwixt him and them; he is their physician by office; any of them all may come to him if they will, and be healed: so God, looking on the ruined world of mankind, has constituted and appointed Jesus Christ, his Son, Saviour of the world; he has Heaven's patent for this office; and wheresoever the gospel comes, this his patent is intimated. Hereby a relation is constituted betwixt him and the world of mankind; he is their Saviour, and they the objects of his administration: so that any of them all may come to him, without money or price, and be saved by him as their own Saviour appointed them by the Father.

That Christ is thus the Saviour of the world, appears, if ye consider,

1st, Scripture testimony, which is plain. Our text expressly calls him so: and so do the believing Samaritans profess their faith in him, John 4:42, "we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world." You have the appointment of Heaven very plain thereanent, John 3:16, "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life;" even as the brazen serpent lifted up on the pole in the wilderness was the ordinance of God for healing to the stung persons of the whole camp of Israel. Hence Christ's salvation is called the common salvation, Jude 3; a salvation which any of mankind sinners may lay hold on. So the Saviour's birth is said to be "glad tidings for all people," Luke 2:10-11; which it could not have been, if he had not been a Saviour for all people. Wherefore he himself testifies, that he came to save the world, John 3:17, "God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 12:47, "I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." This was his office, to save sinners indefinitely; not this or that sort of sinners, but sinners of mankind indefinitely, without exception, 1 Tim 1:15, "this is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;" the lost, Luke 19:10, "the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost;" 2 Cor 5:19, "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them." To the same purpose he declares himself "the light of the world," namely, by office, John 8:12, that whosoever will employ him may have the light of life.

2dly, If it were not so, he could not warrantably be offered with his salvation to the world indefinitely, but to the elect only; more than he can be offered lawfully to fallen angels, who are not within his commission as a Saviour. For the ministerial offer can never lawfully carry the matter beyond the bounds of Christ's commission from his Father. But Christ and his salvation may be warrantably offered to the whole world of mankind-sinners, with assurance that whoever of them will employ him to save them, he shall be saved. Mark 16:15-16, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." "He that believeth, shall be saved; but he that believeth not, shall be damned." Moreover, if it were not so, the unbelief of hearers of the gospel, not elected, their not coming to Christ for salvation, could not be their sin: for it can never be one's sin not to do a thing he has no warrant for; not to employ one to save him, whom God never appointed to be his Saviour. So it is not the sin of fallen angels, that they believe not in Christ for salvation, because they are not within the Saviour's commission; nor of those who never heard of Christ, because his commission was never intimated to them. But not believing in Christ the Saviour, is the sin that ruins the hearers of the gospel who do at all perish, John 3:19, "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." Finally, if it were not so, the elect themselves could never believe in Christ, till in the first place their election were revealed to them; which is contrary to the stated method of grace: for they can never believe on Christ for their salvation, till they see him to be a Saviour for them.

Thomas Boston, Christ's Name Wonderful in Works, Vol. 10, p. 228:

2. He is nearly related to the house of Adam. He is a Son of that house too, the top-branch of it; Luke 3:3,8. He has a common relation to them all. He is their Saviour by office, 1 Tim 4:10; the Saviour of the world, 1 John 4:14. He has a nearer relation to the elect. He is their surety and representative, who undertook for them in the covenant, Heb 7:22; John 10:15; and a yet nearer relation to believers. He is their brother, Heb 2:11; their father, Isa 9:6; their husband, 2 Cor 11:2; and their head, Col 1:18.

 

[Pergamum]

Our God shows kindness to all men, especially those that believe. He is the Do-gooder of all, especially His Elect.

He loves all men with some love, but he loves some men with all love....

 

[moral necessity]

Also, he is the savior of all men, in that he saves Jews, Samaritans, Greeks, Romans, barbarians, and so on. He came for all sorts, and he is the only savior available for them all. But, to be more specific, he is the savior only of those who believe.

Blessings!

 

[JohnOwen007]

What's critical to note is that the term "savior" in the Greek denotes one who preserves, keep, protects, etc. In this sense, the Romans referred to their civil rulers as their "saviors".

The problem with this explanation is that (1) Paul never uses soter in this sense. Moreover, (2) when "saviour" was used of the Emperors it meant more than simply preservation of his poeple, but included defeat and protection of enemies etc.

"Especially" (malista) can sometimes (less often than not) mean "namely". Hence, "the saviour of all people, namely the elect". This would solve all sorts of theological problems.

However, linguistically it's problematic; it doesn't fit well with the overall context of 1 Timothy as a unit of discourse, most notably 1 Tim 2, which uses "all" in a something of a universal manner many times.

We must disentangle the theological from the exegetical issues. Exegetically it may say Christ is the saviour of all people. But we know, from elsewhere, that not all people will be finally saved. Hence, what can be referred to in this verse?

I take it to mean that the gospel (Christ as saviour) can be offered to all people, with an appeal that if they repent and believe they will indeed be saved. And that, a la Dort, the person's rejection of this message is not due to anything in the atonement itself.

 

[Christusregnat]

JohnOwen007 (is that the Puritan James Bond? )

This is an interesting assertion: that Paul "never uses soter in this sense." Aren't you begging the question here?

What if he's using it that way here? Are we to forbid him to do so? Also, please comment on the other passages I brought forward from Acts and Ephesians, in which it is clear that part of Paul's gospel methodology was to explain that God was the savior of all men. Also, see the quotations offered by Virginia Huguenot for more detail; the Westminster Assembly seemed to think my exegesis correct (actually, it's vice versa: I think their exegesis was correct, since they came first ).

Good point that soter involves the idea of protection as well as preservation, not merely preservation. Enemies are, as a matter of course, something from which protection is needed.

Cheers,

Adam

What's critical to note is that the term "savior" in the Greek denotes one who preserves, keep, protects, etc. In this sense, the Romans referred to their civil rulers as their "saviors".

The problem with this explanation is that (1) Paul never uses soter in this sense. Moreover, (2) when "saviour" was used of the Emperors it meant more than simply preservation of his poeple, but included defeat and protection of enemies etc.

"Especially" (malista) can sometimes (less often than not) mean "namely". Hence, "the saviour of all people, namely the elect". This would solve all sorts of theological problems.

However, linguistically it's problematic; it doesn't fit well with the overall context of 1 Timothy as a unit of discourse, most notably 1 Tim 2, which uses "all" in a something of a universal manner many times.

We must disentangle the theological from the exegetical issues. Exegetically it may say Christ is the saviour of all people. But we know, from elsewhere, that not all people will be finally saved. Hence, what can be referred to in this verse?

I take it to mean that the gospel (Christ as saviour) can be offered to all people, with an appeal that if they repent and believe they will indeed be saved. And that, a la Dort, the person's rejection of this message is not due to anything in the atonement itself.

 

[FenderPriest]

1 Tim 4:10--"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

There is a sense in which God, through Jesus Christ's death, is the Savior of all people, and there is a sense in which He is the Savior especially of those who believe. Both are true, and neither should be minimized.

I'm still working through my definition of the intent/extent of Christ's atonement. Someone said the above quote to me recently. What say ye?

Kim, I did a blog post on this a few months back that may help you: Savior of All in 1 Timothy 4:10. Hopefully it will help - it's mostly a revamping of what John Owen says on the verse.

 

[Matthew1034]

1 Tim 4:10--"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

There is a sense in which God, through Jesus Christ's death, is the Savior of all people, and there is a sense in which He is the Savior especially of those who believe. Both are true, and neither should be minimized.

I'm still working through my definition of the intent/extent of Christ's atonement. Someone said the above quote to me recently. What say ye?

If the living God was not the savior of all men, then there could be another savior. In other words, he is the only savior, the only living God, with the power to save.

And he is especially the savior of those who believe, in that, his saving power and grace is extended (blood applied) to all who believe, but not all men.

The same logic can be used for 1 john 2:2 - Jesus Christ the righteous is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world - if he was not, then there could be another propitiation. Of course, Christ is the only lamb without blemish who takes away the sins of the world.

But the unbeliever, in no uncertain terms, has no power to be a partaker of Christ's afflictions and propitiating work, unless he believes (imputed righteousness by grace through faith on the basis of the atonement). Psalm 130:3

 

[toddpedlar]

1 Tim 4:10--"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

There is a sense in which God, through Jesus Christ's death, is the Savior of all people, and there is a sense in which He is the Savior especially of those who believe. Both are true, and neither should be minimized.

I'm still working through my definition of the intent/extent of Christ's atonement. Someone said the above quote to me recently. What say ye?

If the living God was not the savior of all men, then there could be another savior. In other words, he is the only savior, the only living God, with the power to save.

And he is especially the savior of those who believe, in that, his saving power and grace is extended (blood applied) to all who believe, but not all men.

The same logic can be used for 1 john 2:2 - Jesus Christ the righteous is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world - if he was not, then there could be another propitiation. Of course, Christ is the only lamb without blemish who takes away the sins of the world.

But the unbeliever, in no uncertain terms, has no power to be a partaker of Christ's afflictions and propitiating work, unless he believes (imputed righteousness by grace through faith on the basis of the atonement). Psalm 130:3

This formulation is very well put. It does justice to the Biblical texts, and does not require any kind of wordplay and gerrymandering wherein we affirm that Christ is the "saviour of each and every human being somehow, but doesn't grant any salvific benefits to each and every human being". There are exactly NO salvific benefits that non-elect receive from Christ - and since the word "savior" affirms salvific benefits, he cannot in any sense be said to be the Savior of each and every human being. These seemingly "all men" verses can only be understood properly, doing justice to the whole of God's Word, as Matthew has outlined above. They are "Christ is unique", "Salvation is exclusively through the atoning work of Christ" passages.

 

[rescuedbyLove]

Jacob,

[from your blog]

I can understand why my Arminian brothers would want to interpret this verse to support their idea of universal atonement, but I honestly think they are simply ripping it out of context. It utterly disrupts the flow of Paul’s instruction to Timothy to do the following (which is what Arminians are claiming), “Timothy, keep persevering in ministry, just as we have been doing the same, because we trust in a God who rules in kindness, and Jesus Christ’s atonement extended to all people.” I’m sorry, but to make that phrase apply to the nature of the atonement puts a huge speed bump right in the middle of Paul’s teaching on faithful ministry.

Ha, ha, I've never thought about it that way before! You're right--it doesn't quite fit in with the context of the passage.

We should let the context, not our wishes, determine the meaning of a particular phrase.

p.s. yeah, helped me out a LOT when I was working through the L of TULIP.

 

[queenknitter]

Kim, I see you are at it with the guys on the fundie site again, LOL, watch out they will drive you crazy.

But it's sooooo fun!! Even if they do try to get you fired!!

Off to go look there too. . . .

C