Satan hindered us

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chuckd

Puritan Board Sophomore
1 Thess. 2:18 because we wanted to come to you—I, Paul, again and again—but Satan hindered us.

Acts 16:6 And they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia.

How did the Apostles discern when Satan was hindering their travel and when the Holy Spirit was hindering their travel?
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Do you mean to say they were given divine revelation that one hindrance was Satan and the other the Holy Spirit?
I am saying that they were inspired and, therefore, could ascertain and make that judgment correctly. We are not inspired and so I try never to presume upon what God is doing.

Maybe we are hindering ourselves?

How could we possibly ascertain or diagnose these situations properly with certainty in most cases?
 

earl40

Puritan Board Professor
No doubt The Holy Spirit can use Satan. Thus each verse can be read either way In my most humble opinion.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
While I am a supernaturalist and believe in the supernatural today, I'm generally hesitant to say "x was a result of ἀρχάς, ἐξουσίας, κοσμοκράτορας, πονηρίας." Maybe they were. Hard to say.

I do think this raises some interesting questions for those who hold that Satan was bound in the church age that he may deceive the nations no more (per some interpretations of Rev. 20). If that's true, then what's he doing in this passage?
 

JimmyH

Puritan Board Senior
While I am a supernaturalist and believe in the supernatural today, I'm generally hesitant to say "x was a result of ἀρχάς, ἐξουσίας, κοσμοκράτορας, πονηρίας." Maybe they were. Hard to say.

I do think this raises some interesting questions for those who hold that Satan was bound in the church age that he may deceive the nations no more (per some interpretations of Rev. 20). If that's true, then what's he doing in this passage?
For anyone who is a believer I don't see how they couldn't be a 'supernaturalist.' God does not change. I've always been curious about the fallen angels 'bound in chains awaiting judgment' 2 Peter 2:4.

It cannot be all of them, if they are Satan's minions, or is there an alternative ?

BTW, @BayouHuguenot , I've been self studying Greek, on and off, for the past few years. Slow going. But ... though I didn't know the meaning of κοσμοκράτορας, I was able to understand the rest, and knew you are quoting Ephesians 6:12. Gives me a feeling of satisfaction, in spite of it being so simple, and my having a long way to go.
 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Junior
How did the Apostles discern when Satan was hindering their travel and when the Holy Spirit was hindering their travel?
James 4:7 KJV
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

I am not one to see Satan under every rock, but it would be hard to resist someone without first discovering his presence. The Puritans sure believed this. And I have known his presence.

Ephesians 6:12-13 Paul's teaching in verse 12 would be of little use to anyone if it was merely theoretical. I consider it most practical.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

2 Corinthians 2:11 teaches that we should know how to spot the influences of evil spirits.
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

I could give an example or two, but first, let's see where this discussion leads.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
I've always been curious about the fallen angels 'bound in chains awaiting judgment' 2 Peter 2:4.

It cannot be all of them, if they are Satan's minions, or is there an alternative ?
Those are the angels referenced in Genesis 6 (granted it says "sons of God," but every reader before Victorinus, both Jewish and Christian, saw the entities as supernatural beings).

The problem is that we post-Milton readers tend to think every supernatural entity is an "angel" or "demon" and miss the nuances listed in Eph. 6.
 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Junior
Those are the angels referenced in Genesis 6 (granted it says "sons of God," but every reader before Victorinus, both Jewish and Christian, saw the entities as supernatural beings).

The problem is that we post-Milton readers tend to think every supernatural entity is an "angel" or "demon" and miss the nuances listed in Eph. 6.
Exodus 18:11 (KJV) - where Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, gave advice to Moses.

Now I know that the Lord is greater than all gods:
for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.

I don’t think the ‘gods’ (elohim)--the same name for high Yahawa Elohim with the capital ‘E’--makes any sense if the elohim (small ‘e’) are nothing more than superstitious figments of the imagination. It is interesting to me that God chose to give His Word through men that believed in a kind of hierarchy of lesser ‘gods’ that had influence in the “heavenly places” and on the earth.

Then there’s Psalm 82 where (believe it or not) the NIV translates it relatively accurately.

God (Elohim) presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods” (elohim)

Here is Young’s Literal Translation

God hath stood in the company of God,
In the midst God doth judge.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Exodus 18:11 (KJV) - where Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, gave advice to Moses.

Now I know that the Lord is greater than all gods:
for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.

I don’t think the ‘gods’ (elohim)--the same name for high Yahawa Elohim with the capital ‘E’--makes any sense if the elohim (small ‘e’) are nothing more than superstitious figments of the imagination. It is interesting to me that God chose to give His Word through men that believed in a kind of hierarchy of lesser ‘gods’ that had influence in the “heavenly places” and on the earth.

Then there’s Psalm 82 where (believe it or not) the NIV translates it relatively accurately.

God (Elohim) presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods” (elohim)

Here is Young’s Literal Translation

God hath stood in the company of God,
In the midst God doth judge.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
You are correct. Michael Heiser has documented all of this extensively.
 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Junior
I agree. After all, look at the life of Job.
Satan's motives are always evil. He tempts you to fail and hopes it leads to your utter destruction. God's tests are meant unto you success. But Satan is included in the set of "all things," so even when he does his worst, it is overruled unto our good. Romans 8:28

But I don't agree that they "can be read either way." It is essential to try and determine who is prompting you to what.
 

David Taylor

Puritan Board Freshman

Satan's motives are always evil. He tempts you to fail and hopes it leads to your utter destruction. God's tests are meant unto you success. But Satan is included in the set of "all things," so even when he does his worst, it is overruled unto our good. Romans 8:28

But I don't agree that they "can be read either way." It is essential to try and determine who is prompting you to what.
Actually I made the mistake of not reading the entire thread.
 
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