Sabbath Observance

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Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
Mark said, "God commands you to delight in Him on the Sabbath. Whether or not you prefer to do that in pain or not is your liberty"

Thanks for your response Mark, however, I am not sure how to take it.
 

Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
Trevor said, "I think exercise for the sake of keeping the body healthy would not be considered "work" at all."

Thanks for your response Trevor. It gives me pause to think.

I think in a strict OT sense, however, exercise is work, just like gathering firework for a fire, gathering manna, etc.
 

Saiph

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Henry from Canada
Mark said, "God commands you to delight in Him on the Sabbath. Whether or not you prefer to do that in pain or not is your liberty"

Thanks for your response Mark, however, I am not sure how to take it.
:chained:


Scripture is not calling you to be a sannyasin in the following:

James 1:2
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds

By all means, exercise.
 

Coram Deo

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Saiph
A few questions then:

So was that on a lunar calendar or solar calendar ?
The Jewish lunar calendar is based on three astronomical phenomena: the rotation of the Earth about its axis (a day); the revolution of the moon about the Earth (a month); and the revolution of the Earth about the sun (a year).

Based on this definition the day has not changed. The rotation of the Earth about its axis has always been a 24 hour period. God made the Earth in 6, 24 hour period. And Biblically the Sabbath has always been an entire 24 hour period day.


So should not all christians around the world take every 7 years off ? And when does that start ?
Let me ask you acouple of questions.. Was the Sabbath created at creation? I believe it does in Genesis 2 where God rested from all his labors and blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.

Second question, was the seventh year and jublee created at creation? I read no mention of it. So when was the seven year and jubliee created? It was created in Leviticus under the Levitical Ceremonial law. The Ceremonial law has been replaced by Christ final sacrifice and is not for us today. So the seventh year and the jublee has been done away with. But the Sabbath is a morally binding Moral law which Christ himself said I have not come to destroy the Law. The Ten Commandments are rooted in God's Character, He could not change one of them without changing himself which God can not do. They are who he is. That's what moral law is, it is the Character of God and God is a Holy God. In this commandment, we are required to worship God. His Eternal Character requires one whole day in corporate worship.

Remember one more thing, Christ told us in his famous Sermon on the Mount, that "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

As For Me And My House, We Will Serve The Lord
Michael
The Reformed Baptist
 

Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
Thanks for your response Mark.

You know, the more I read about this issue, the WCF, etc., the more I begin to question my Calvinist leanings.

I call myself a Calvinist because I agree with Calvin on Romans 3, Romans 9 and John 6.

But when I start delving deeper into this issue, I wonder if I am really a Calvinist.

I thought the two overriding "rules" in the new covenant were:
Love and honour God, Love your neighbour.

I thought these new rules - or new covenant - were designed to avoid these seemingly never-ending debates on the Sabbath, baptisms, clothing, etc.

Now I guess I have to review the 600 or so commandments in the Old Testament to ensure that I am compliant with the total body of law - and Calvinism.

Oh well.....:banana:
 

Saiph

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by thunaer
The Jewish lunar calendar is based on three astronomical phenomena: the rotation of the Earth about its axis (a day); the revolution of the moon about the Earth (a month); and the revolution of the Earth about the sun (a year).

Based on this definition the day has not changed. The rotation of the Earth about its axis has always been a 24 hour period. God made the Earth in 6, 24 hour period. And Biblically the Sabbath has always been an entire 24 hour period day.
My point was that no one knows when the real Sabbath was, so the day is arbitrary. We celebrate the Lord's Day (1st vs. 7th) by example, not by command.

Let me ask you acouple of questions.. Was the Sabbath created at creation? I believe it does in Genesis 2 where God rested from all his labors and blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.

Second question, was the seventh year and jublee created at creation? I read no mention of it. So when was the seven year and jubliee created? It was created in Leviticus under the Levitical Ceremonial law. The Ceremonial law has been replaced by Christ final sacrifice and is not for us today. So the seventh year and the jublee has been done away with. But the Sabbath is a morally binding Moral law which Christ himself said I have not come to destroy the Law. The Ten Commandments are rooted in God's Character, He could not change one of them without changing himself which God can not do. They are who he is. That's what moral law is, it is the Character of God and God is a Holy God. In this commandment, we are required to worship God. His Eternal Character requires one whole day in corporate worship.

Remember one more thing, Christ told us in his famous Sermon on the Mount, that "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
So are you saying Leviticus was not included in the Sermon On The Mount ?

The reason I ask is that most Sabbatarians quote any number of Old Testament laws to make their points. Are you saying, anything not implicit in the 4th commandment is now acceptable ?

[Edited on 1-10-2006 by Saiph]
 

Coram Deo

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Henry from Canada
Question:

I suffer from a chronic illness. I stretch and exercise whenever I have the energy. I try to do this every day - if possible..... Question: Is stretching and exercising prohibited on the Sabbath in the Bible?
Henry,

I to suffer from chronic illness and need stretching and exercising. I suffer pretty badly from rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia. Mind you I am only 26 years old and the doctor told me I might be in a wheel chair in less then 10 years. It impairs my week and my functioning. Yet my wife, 1 year old daugther and myself still travel 1 1/2 hours to church on Sunday morning and 1 1/2 hours back home on Sunday night. Sometimes I am providentially hindered from worshipping but I muster all my strength to be there at church on the Sabbath. Myself personally, I try to excerise on Saturday before dark and on Monday morning to avoid excerising on the Sabbath but if excerise help you to be in church on the Sabbath, or if it helps you to stay awake durning the services and be refreshed both physically and spiritually then by all means it is an act of mercy. I will not sight you for it. Sometimes I need a 30 mins power nap to be refreshed for evening service since my immunity does not exist as long as I do not sleep the afternoon away in idliness, I do it so I can continue in basking in the Delights of the Lord.


As For Me And My House, We Will Serve The Lord
Michael
The Reformed Baptist
 

Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
Michael said:
"Was the Sabbath created at creation? I believe it does in Genesis 2 where God rested from all his labors and blessed the seventh day and hallowed it."

Off the top of my head, I can not think of anyone prior to Moses honouring the Sabbath. Did Enoch honour the Sabbath? Did Noah? Did Job? Did Abraham? Did Jacob? Did Joseph?

Was the sabbath holy to these people?

Can you please tell me which people honoured the Sabbath prior to Moses?

Please provide Bibles verses. Thanks
 

Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
Michael, I can appreciate the strength you must have to deal with these issues and still attend church. I really hope you prove your doctors wrong, and you are dancing in the streets in 10 years.
 

tdowns

Puritan Board Junior
Act of mercy

I think Michael makes a good point. Is it an act of mercy if you were a nurse and helped with someone's physical therapy on the sabbath? Well, why does that have to only be a nurse? And why should you not be able to perform acts of mercy, or physical therapy on yourself.

I def. think the sabbath needs to be kept, and we should alway Rest in Christ 7 days a week, but I do think people are WORKING pretty hard to not do all kinds of things so they are not WORKING.:D
 

Coram Deo

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Henry from Canada
Can you please tell me which people honoured the Sabbath prior to Moses? Please provide Bibles verses. Thanks
Exodus 16: 22-30
And so it was, on the sixth day, that they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. And all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. Then he said to them, "œThis is what the LORD has said: "˜Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.´" So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, "œEat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none." Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the LORD said to Moses, "œHow long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." So the people rested on the seventh day.
This passage of Exodus shows us that the people of God honored the Sabbath BEFORE the Ten Commandments was given in Exodus Chapter 20.

Also in Hebrews Chapter 4 we read about there remains a Sabbath day for the people of God. And how does the author relate it.

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "œAnd God rested on the seventh day from all His works";.......There remains therefore a Sabbath Rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
So we see from this passage that the seventh day Sabbath which God created was from the foundation of the world which was to honor his creation but then we read the Christ ceased from his work (Re-creation) at calvary and rose again on the first day of the week which became the Sabbath to honor Christ and his Re-creation and to look forward to the eternal Sabbath rest in Heaven..

As For Me And My House, We Will Serve The Lord
Michael
The Reformed Baptist
 

Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
Thanks for your response, Michael, but it did not answer my question.

No one here doubts that God rested on the 7th day, or that Moses and his people honoured the Sabbath. That is not the issue. We all agree here. Moses most definitely honoured the Sabbath.


Please provide Bible verses showing:
- how Jacob honoured the Sabbath
- how Abraham honoured the Sabbath
- how Noah, Enoch, Joseph, Gideon, Isaac, Job, or how any human honoured the Sabbath before the time of Moses.

It would appear that for at least 2,000 years, none of God's people honoured the Sabbath - unless you can provide Bible verses.

These other people did honour the other 9 commandments, but I can not find them honouring the 4th commandment.

Am I missing something? I thought you guys were saying that the 4th commandment was moral law, binding for all time?
 

Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
The larger issue:
If I am subject to the Old Testament Sabbath laws, must I now read the entire Old Testament to ensure that I am compliant with the 600 or so laws?

Or did Jesus greatly simplify and enrich the issue: Love and honour God. Love your neighbour.
 

Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
Hebrews 8:13:

"By calling this covenant 'new', He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear."

Thanks for allowing me to participate in this forum. This process has been most revealing for me.

I hope God blesses each and every person associated with this group.
 

crhoades

Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by Henry from Canada
The larger issue:
If I am subject to the Old Testament Sabbath laws, must I now read the entire Old Testament to ensure that I am compliant with the 600 or so laws?

Or did Jesus greatly simplify and enrich the issue: Love and honour God. Love your neighbour.
Jesus didn't simplify the issue but rather summarized it. The two great commands are actually part of the 600. Hope this helps.

Matt. 22:34-40
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. An the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Deut. 6:4-9
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

Lev. 19:18
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
19 Keep my decrees.
 

Peter

Puritan Board Junior
:amen: To Michael the Reformed Baptist. Especially the first post. Isa 58:13,14 is a favorite passage. My Sabbath preparation often simply consists of long meditation on these verses.

I love that phrase, "Market Day for the Soul." I hope God has made your commerce very lucrative. Watson, Heaven Taken by Storm: "We should look upon this day as a spiritual market for our souls wherein we have holy commerce and traffic with God."

[Edited on 1-10-2006 by Peter]
 

biblelighthouse

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Henry from Canada
Thanks for your response, Michael, but it did not answer my question.

No one here doubts that God rested on the 7th day, or that Moses and his people honoured the Sabbath. That is not the issue. We all agree here. Moses most definitely honoured the Sabbath.
You are missing the point. The fact that the Israelites kept the Sabbath in Exodus 16, four chapters before Exodus 20, proves that the Sabbath was being kept BEFORE the Ten Commandments were ever given! So Sabbath-keeping did not start with the Ten Commandments. Thus, if you want to argue that Abraham, Jacob, etc. did not keep the Sabbath, you are being arbitrary. After all, if Sabbath-keeping did not start with the Ten commandments, then when did it start, if not in Gen. 2:3?

Originally posted by Henry from Canada

Please provide Bible verses showing:
- how Jacob honoured the Sabbath
- how Abraham honoured the Sabbath
- how Noah, Enoch, Joseph, Gideon, Isaac, Job, or how any human honoured the Sabbath before the time of Moses.

It would appear that for at least 2,000 years, none of God's people honoured the Sabbath - unless you can provide Bible verses.
That is a logical fallacy . . . an argument from silence.

A while after its initiation in Genesis, circumcision was not mentioned for over 800 years in the Old Testament. Does it therefore follow that no one practiced circumcision for those 800 years, and then suddenly started practicing it again after the 800 years were up? Of course not! Just because something isn't mentioned for a number of years, doesn't mean it wasn't practiced. The same goes for the Sabbath.

Originally posted by Henry from Canada

Am I missing something? I thought you guys were saying that the 4th commandment was moral law, binding for all time?
Yes, you are missing the fact that God instituted the Sabbath in Genesis 2:3. God set apart that day and made it holy.

And frankly, whether or not people kept that commandment is a moot point. The breaking of God's commands does not nullify them.
 

biblelighthouse

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Saiph
So Joseph, as christians shouldn't we obey God and take a year off every 7 ?
Was that instituted in Gen. 2? Or in the Ten Commandments?


You might as well ask if we should wear shirts with two different kinds of thread. The "Sabbath year" and the "Sabbath day" are two totally distinct laws, that both happen to use the word "Sabbath". (It's kind of like Wesminister Seminary in California, and Westminister Seminary in Philly. . . . similar name, but distinct institutions.) The Sabbath day was instituted as a Creation ordinance, and was included in the Ten Commandments. The Sabbath year was instituted for Israel alone.
 

Saiph

Puritan Board Junior
Actually Rich Bledsoe said in a sermon once that given most people take Saturdays off as well, that is adds up to a 7 year sabbath.
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
Originally posted by Saiph
So Joseph, as christians shouldn't we obey God and take a year off every 7 ?
Mark, isn't that a land sabbath, not a "no work" sabbath? I take it the land is supposed to rest, but even in the land sabbath year, the people are to harvest (and therefore work) what came up during that year.

In my pagan days I was a farmer. Strangely, I applied the land sabbath principle to my crops, rotating them so that one year out of seven a given plot of land was fallow. I allowed the cows to graze the fallow ground, and the enjoyed the volunteer wheat or barley that came up.

As for the jubilee, I think it would have been a wonderful idea, but the bank didn't like the idea. On a more serious note, how would the jubilee work in our land in which God did not set out boundaries according to family?

Vic
 

biblelighthouse

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Peters
I keep the sabbath by faithing in Christ.

In other words, you don't keep the Sabbath!


Remember, the saved Israelites in the Old Testament had faith in Christ too! For example, Moses explicitly trusted in Jesus Christ (cf. Hebrews 11:26). But He still had to actually keep the Sabbath day holy! Because Moses had faith in Christ, he dedicated one day per week to the worship of God.

It is no different for us now. We are required to have faith in Christ, certainly. But that does not remove our requirement to obey the 4th commandment, any more than it removes our requirement to keep the other 9 commandments.
 

Peters

Puritan Board Freshman
They were also to be put to death if they broke it. Do you also think i should be put to death? Ex 31:14-15.
 

Arch2k

Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by Peters
They were also to be put to death if they broke it. Do you also think i should be put to death? Ex 31:14-15.
Moral law vs. civil law. Moral law is still binding, ceremonial and civil are out.

WCF
Chapter XIX

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

2. James 1:25; 2:8, 10-12; Rom. 3:19; 13:8-9; Deut. 5:32; 10:4; Exod. 34:1
3. Exod. 30:3-17; Matt. 22:37-40


III. Beside this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the new testament.[6]

4. Heb. 10:1; Gal. 4:1-3; Col. 2:17; Heb. 9:1-28
5. Lev. 19:9-10, 19, 23, 27; Deut. 24:19-21; see I Cor. 5:7; II Cor. 6:17; Jude 1:23
6. Col. 2:14, 16-17; Dan. 9:27; Eph. 2:15-16; Heb. 9:10; Acts 10:9-16; 11:2-10

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging any other now, further than the general equity thereof may require.7]

7. Exod. 21:1-23:19; Gen. 49:10 with I Peter 2:13-14; I Cor. 9:8-10

V. The moral law doth forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither doth Christ, in the gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

8. Rom. 3:31; 7:25; 13:8-10; I Cor. 9:21; Gal. 5:14; Eph. 6:2-3; I John 2:3-4, 7; Rom. 3:20; 7:7-8 and I John 3:4 with Rom. 6:15
9. Deut. 6:4-5; Exod. 20:11; Rom. 3:19; James 2:8, 10-11; Matt. 19:4-6; Gen. 17:1
10. Matt. 5:17-19; Rom. 3:31; I Cor. 9:21; Luke 16:17-18
 

Henry from Canada

Puritan Board Freshman
Hebrews 4:
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"Therefore, since the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.....

Now, we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, 'So I declared on oath in my anger, They shall never enter my rest.......

There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God: for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest."

Hebrews 8:
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"But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises......

By calling this covenant 'new', he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear."

Galatians 3:10:
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All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of Law."

Micah 6:8:
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"And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God."

Henry's belief of what sums up present law:
------------------------------------------------------
Law and honour God, love your neighbour

A Christian that can live this 7 word legal code will find himself obeying many OT laws and will be very holy.

What legal code must I be guided by? These 7 words or the 600+ laws written in the Old Testament?

Have you, Joseph, ever gone to the Old Testament and taken note of every law, and decided which ones were ceremonial (i.e. obsolete) and which one were moral (i.e. still in force)?
 
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