Sabbath and Monday AM Hours

[Theoretical]

Here's an odd issue that only comes up with me being a night owl college student at a night owl campus. I've begun adopting fairly strict Sabbath views of late, starting with not exchanging commerce on Sunday, most of all including eating out.

I definitely do not eat out on Sundays (if I'm traveling, well, I try not to travel on Sundays, etc...), but I was wondering about what is and is not appropriate starting at 12:01 Monday morning, especially in visiting a 24 hour restaurant (Whataburger in this case). If I enjoy eating at a restaurant in this manner, am I being a Sabbath-breaker by intention if not technically?

 

[bookslover]

Here's an odd issue that only comes up with me being a night owl college student at a night owl campus. I've begun adopting fairly strict Sabbath views of late, starting with not exchanging commerce on Sunday, most of all including eating out.

I definitely do not eat out on Sundays (if I'm traveling, well, I try not to travel on Sundays, etc...), but I was wondering about what is and is not appropriate starting at 12:01 Monday morning, especially in visiting a 24 hour restaurant (Whataburger in this case). If I enjoy eating at a restaurant in this manner, am I being a Sabbath-breaker by intention if not technically?

If you're worried about something like this, you might be in danger of allowing your view on the Lord's Day to fall into legalism. Just a thought.

 

[Theoretical]

That's an interesting point, and definitely something I need to watch out for in this and other areas.

 

[Jie-Huli]

Here's an odd issue that only comes up with me being a night owl college student at a night owl campus. I've begun adopting fairly strict Sabbath views of late, starting with not exchanging commerce on Sunday, most of all including eating out.

I definitely do not eat out on Sundays (if I'm traveling, well, I try not to travel on Sundays, etc...), but I was wondering about what is and is not appropriate starting at 12:01 Monday morning, especially in visiting a 24 hour restaurant (Whataburger in this case). If I enjoy eating at a restaurant in this manner, am I being a Sabbath-breaker by intention if not technically?

In my opinion, there is nothing legalistic about desiring precision with respect to observance of the Sabbath. And there is certainly no conflict between precision and love for the rich spiritual meaning of the Sabbath, for how is our love for the Sabbath to be lived out if not in specific acts and decisions?

It is a joy to see that you have come to a high regard for the Sabbath, and I pray that you are truly calling it "a delight."

In answer to your query, I would strongly recommend that you continue in a holy Sabbath frame of mind until whatever time you fall asleep following the Lord's Day, even if it is not until the early hours of Monday morning that you fall asleep, and do not return to "normal" trading and and other lawful secular pursuits until you wake again on Monday.

The Puritan Thomas Vincent in his excellent exposition of the Shorter Catechism notes that part of keeping the Sabbath is to make the holy exercises of the day last as long as possible (though he obviously does not mean to require us to continue on into the early hours such that our duties of the next day would be affected), and it would seem to me that if one has a mindset that he is to be released from Sabbath observance as soon as the clock strikes 12.01am, this would not be very conducive to the godly Sabbath frame of mind. How much more wonderful if the spiritual delights you have partaken of all day long remain the focus of your meditations even as you drift off to sleep.

What is more, if you were to go to 24 hour restaurants or shops after midnight, it is very likely that the partaking of these services is practically contributing to requiring various works to be done in those establishments on the Sabbath day itself . . . the purchasing of vegetables, cleaning, various other preparations, requiring staff to be preparing and traveling on the evening of the Sabbath (even if their shift did not actually start until after midnight).

For my part, these considerations (and others) greatly overcome any minor conveniences or pleasures to be had out of doors in those few hours between midnight and your normal sleeping hour.

Kind regards,

Jie-Huli

 

[kvanlaan]

What is more, if you were to go to 24 hour restaurants or shops after midnight, it is very likely that the partaking of these services is practically contributing to requiring various works to be done in those establishments on the Sabbath day itself . . . the purchasing of vegetables, cleaning, various other preparations, requiring staff to be preparing and traveling on the evening of the Sabbath (even if their shift did not actually start until after midnight).

I also think (because I've done it before many a time) that we tend to ask questions that belong in a "Hey, Rabbi" category. That is, we like to know how far we can push it before it becomes a sin. Let's face it, we have many very astute and knowledgable folks on the boards here that can tell us what is scriptural and what is not - it is all too easy to fall into that behaviour. We can commit sin even in things that are lawful, simply by focusing on them too much, to the detriment of other duties in our lives.

That being said, I do not know your motivation in this thread, I am only speaking from my own experiences/temptations here.

 

[Herald]

I'm not a Sabbatarian so I don't have much value to add to this thread, but I do have a question. Do Sabbatarians believe that observing the Sabbath is simply keeping a command? Is there more to it than that?

 

[Jie-Huli]

I'm not a Sabbatarian so I don't have much value to add to this thread, but I do have a question. Do Sabbatarians believe that observing the Sabbath is simply keeping a command? Is there more to it than that?

I am not certain if I fully understand the direction of your question, but certainly there is more to the Sabbath than simply "keeping a command." With all of God's commandments, the prescriptive element, while an important hedge, is only part of the picture, and not the highest part at that. Those who truly know and love God's commandments recognise the beauty and the blessings of God within them.

This is particularly clear with respect to the Sabbath, because the commandment contains within it such a spiritual feast for those who keep it. It is truly the "market day of the soul", and I am quite certain that those who keep it truly are so comforted and enriched by this blessed day that they do not have the slightest sense of "missing" any of the secular pursuits which are forbidden. We know truly that "the Sabbath was made for man" (note, not Old Testament Jews only, but "man" universally) and is an intensely wonderful gift from our Creator.

How could keeping the Sabbath be merely "keeping a command" when God's Word calls us to "call the sabbath a delight", and gives these promises to those who do so: "Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."

In short, I cannot imagine life without it.

Kind regards,

Jie-Huli

 

[Herald]

I am not certain if I fully understand the direction of your question, but certainly there is more to the Sabbath than simply "keeping a command." With all of God's commandments, the prescriptive element, while an important hedge, is only part of the picture, and not the highest part at that. Those who truly know and love God's commandments recognise the beauty and the blessings of God within them.

This is particularly clear with respect to the Sabbath, because the commandment contains within it such a spiritual feast for those who keep it. It is truly the "market day of the soul", and I am quite certain that those who keep it truly are so comforted and enriched by this blessed day that they do not have the slightest sense of "missing" any of the secular pursuits which are forbidden. We know truly that "the Sabbath was made for man" (note, not Old Testament Jews only, but "man" universally) and is an intensely wonderful gift from our Creator.

How could keeping the Sabbath be merely "keeping a command" when God's Word calls us to "call the sabbath a delight", and gives these promises to those who do so: "Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."

In short, I cannot imagine life without it.

Kind regards,

Jie-Huli

Jie, thank you for your thoughtful reply.

 

[Theoretical]

I also think (because I've done it before many a time) that we tend to ask questions that belong in a "Hey, Rabbi" category. That is, we like to know how far we can push it before it becomes a sin. Let's face it, we have many very astute and knowledgable folks on the boards here that can tell us what is scriptural and what is not - it is all too easy to fall into that behaviour. We can commit sin even in things that are lawful, simply by focusing on them too much, to the detriment of other duties in our lives.

That being said, I do not know your motivation in this thread, I am only speaking from my own experiences/temptations here.

My motivation is more along the lines of "hmm, I never thought of that before, and it is something that has come up in the past, and I want to do the right thing in this manner."

Kevin, that is what prompted this quote: "If I enjoy eating at a restaurant in this manner, am I being a Sabbath-breaker by intention if not technically?"

I'm definitely not out to split hairs, but trying to see sound intentions as best I can, especially since my background growing up was anything but Sabbatarian.

 

[Davidius]

If your understanding of the Sabbath is that it runs from midnight to midnight I don't see why it should be a violation of your conscience to go out to eat after midnight.

 

[Civbert]

If your understanding of the Sabbath is that it runs from midnight to midnight I don't see why it should be a violation of your conscience to go out to eat after midnight.

We are not to cause others work on Sunday either. To go eat at midnight requires others to be working for at least a few hours on Sunday.

If you wake up after midnight and make yourself a sandwich, that's not really a Sabbath problem.

But don't think you can wake up your wife at 12:01 AM and tell her to make you a sandwich since the Sabbath is over. I'd consider that a Sabbath violation.

 

[Davidius]

We are not to cause others work on Sunday either. To go eat at midnight requires others to be working for at least a few hours on Sunday.

If you wake up after midnight and make yourself a sandwich, that's not really a Sabbath problem.

But don't think you can wake up your wife at 12:01 AM and tell her to make you a sandwich since the Sabbath is over. I'd consider that a Sabbath violation.

Good point. I forgot about the issue with others working before and after midnight.

 

[tdowns]

So you Def. can't

tivo your Sunday sports to watch on Monday either....interesting. Which of course rules out Monday Sports Center, because most of that is about Sunday sports......prob. best to stay away from sports other than College Football...

 

[kvanlaan]

My motivation is more along the lines of "hmm, I never thought of that before, and it is something that has come up in the past, and I want to do the right thing in this manner."

Kevin, that is what prompted this quote: "If I enjoy eating at a restaurant in this manner, am I being a Sabbath-breaker by intention if not technically?"

I'm definitely not out to split hairs, but trying to see sound intentions as best I can, especially since my background growing up was anything but Sabbatarian.

Well, then, good for you, Scott. "Doing the right thing" is so often a secondary (if that) concern. Our nature tends to want to know how much we can get away with without being called for a foul.

I think that from the posts you can see which way the wind is blowing...

Blessings, brother.

 

[Theoretical]

Yeah, I definitely am seeing these trends, and it's good to be thinking about these things.

 

[Puritanhead]

Here's an odd issue that only comes up with me being a night owl college student at a night owl campus. I've begun adopting fairly strict Sabbath views of late, starting with not exchanging commerce on Sunday, most of all including eating out.

I definitely do not eat out on Sundays (if I'm traveling, well, I try not to travel on Sundays, etc...), but I was wondering about what is and is not appropriate starting at 12:01 Monday morning, especially in visiting a 24 hour restaurant (Whataburger in this case). If I enjoy eating at a restaurant in this manner, am I being a Sabbath-breaker by intention if not technically?

Is a nurse who treats someone for a heart attack sustained on Sunday a sabbath breaker?

Is a police officer who does not wait until Monday to arrest a criminal who is doing harm to someone on Sunday a sabbath breaker?

I think we can beat ourselves silly with 1,0001 hypotheticals. The Sabbatarian's intentions are noble, but how far does one carry it? The illustrious Thomas J. 'Stonewall' Jackson never delivered mail on Friday for fear that it would be in transit on Sunday.


In my humble opinion The important Christian thing to do, insofar as possible is try and see that our work schedule honors the Sabbath. And on the Sabbath make it a point to regularly seek fellowship and engage in Scriptural contemplation, meditation and prayer, since it's a day of rest.

 

[beej6]

Is a nurse who treats someone for a heart attack sustained on Sunday a sabbath breaker?

Is a police officer who does not wait until Monday to arrest a criminal who is doing harm to someone on Sunday a sabbath breaker?

but I couldn't resist: No (mission of mercy) and no (mission of necessity, unless you are going to argue that all police should not work on Sunday and "let" criminals run free).

 

[Pilgrim]

Is a nurse who treats someone for a heart attack sustained on Sunday a sabbath breaker?

Is a police officer who does not wait until Monday to arrest a criminal who is doing harm to someone on Sunday a sabbath breaker?

Are you serious?

I cannot imagine that you are ignorant of the fact that sabbatarians have always taught that works of mercy and necessity are permitted on the Sabbath.

 

[Puritanhead]

Are you serious?

I cannot imagine that you are ignorant of the fact that sabbatarians have always taught that works of mercy and necessity are permitted on the Sabbath.

I thought I was implicitly begging the mercy inferences in the first place. You guys seem ticked that I even brought that up, and who knows what inferences you are reading into my rhetorical statements. I thought I was sabbatarian, albeit a relapsed one.

 

[bookslover]

tivo your Sunday sports to watch on Monday either....interesting. Which of course rules out Monday Sports Center, because most of that is about Sunday sports......prob. best to stay away from sports other than College Football...

I know you're kidding, but this is a good illustration of how tangled this can become if we over-think it. Gotta try to keep it simple and natural...remembering what our Lord said, that the Sabbath is made for man, not the other way around.

 

[jenney]

Jie-Huli,

Your posts on the Sabbath are my views exactly, though I could not have expressed it nearly so well. Thank you for your replies!

 

[Dena]

let me know if I need to start a seperate thread for this, or one of the mods can do a thread split (if y'all can do that on here.)

what are everyone's views on making food on sunday?

Preparing a meal from scratch and then using the oven or stovetop?

Preparing a meal the day before and then using the oven or stovetop?

Heating leftovers on the oven or stove?

Leaving a crock-pot running while you're at church so food is ready when you get home?

Using a microwave?

Using a toaster?

Making a sandwich on Sunday?

Pouring a bowl of cereal?

What, if any of these things is good/allowed, and what is not allowed, and why any distinction at your particular point of ok/not ok?

Thanks.

 

[Rev. Todd Ruddell]

I'm glad to see these questions being asked--there are so many misunderstandings that surround Sabbath keeping. As for the "24 hour" question, our efforts here at the Ruddell home are to spend all our waking ours on the Sabbath Day in the worship of God, and in the works of necessity and mercy. We enjoy the Lord, and enjoy the day, remembering that He has given this day as a retreat from our worldly employments and recreations, and given us the opportunity to focus upon His grace and mercy, especially because we're not pressed into other service.

This blessing is one we desire all could enjoy--so we refrain from causing others to work, not desiring such for our fellow men, and desiring not to offend our kind Father, who has told us to let our servants rest on His day.

As for police, fire, medical, etc. these works of necessity and mercy have always been lawful on the Sabbath day.

One other thing that we try to do as it regards the 24 question--We try to prepare for the Sabbath--that is, we don't run ourselves hard, or into late recreations on Saturday night, to avoid encroaching on the Sabbath day--we want to give the Lord our strength on His day.

One more thing--let's avoid throwing about the suggestion of legalism. Legalism is to be distinguished from a zeal for keeping the Law of God. Legalism is "merit by lawkeeping", where zeal for keeping God's Law is a thing to be desired. I commend the originator of this thread for raising these questions out of a desire to keep God's Law. If one goes to great lengthts to be clear of sin, and temptation, how is that to be criticized? Let us rather encourage one another to a hearty obedience!

 

[Poimen]

But don't think you can wake up your wife at 12:01 AM and tell her to make you a sandwich since the Sabbath is over. I'd consider that a Sabbath violation.

That might also be a violation of her beauty and comfort sleep and will probably result in a severe beating too! heh heh...

 

[jenney]

One more thing--let's avoid throwing about the suggestion of legalism. Legalism is to be distinguished from a zeal for keeping the Law of God. Legalism is "merit by lawkeeping", where zeal for keeping God's Law is a thing to be desired. I commend the originator of this thread for raising these questions out of a desire to keep God's Law. If one goes to great lengthts to be clear of sin, and temptation, how is that to be criticized? Let us rather encourage one another to a hearty obedience!

Amen.

 

[KMK]

One more thing--let's avoid throwing about the suggestion of legalism. Legalism is to be distinguished from a zeal for keeping the Law of God. Legalism is "merit by lawkeeping", where zeal for keeping God's Law is a thing to be desired. I commend the originator of this thread for raising these questions out of a desire to keep God's Law. If one goes to great lengthts to be clear of sin, and temptation, how is that to be criticized? Let us rather encourage one another to a hearty obedience!

It is interesting how some immediately start playing the 'L' card every time someone says they want to keep a commandment because of its wisdom or because they just love God.

 

[staythecourse]

I like to rest and I want other to like it too!

When I started to observe it, THEN I saw the wisdom in it.

1. Resting the night before, getting prepped in prayer or Scripture
2. Waking up without a rush
3. Singing a hymn or two on the way to worship
4. Staying away from talking business or sports and redirecting talk to God
5. Dining with brothers and keeping conversation on God
6. A nap maybe
7. Ending the day in worship with brothers
8. Ice cream.
9. Bed.

What could be better? Ain't "legalism" grand?

 

[bookslover]

let me know if I need to start a seperate thread for this, or one of the mods can do a thread split (if y'all can do that on here.)

what are everyone's views on making food on sunday?

Preparing a meal from scratch and then using the oven or stovetop?

Preparing a meal the day before and then using the oven or stovetop?

Heating leftovers on the oven or stove?

Leaving a crock-pot running while you're at church so food is ready when you get home?

Using a microwave?

Using a toaster?

Making a sandwich on Sunday?

Pouring a bowl of cereal?

What, if any of these things is good/allowed, and what is not allowed, and why any distinction at your particular point of ok/not ok?

Thanks.

Anything you want or need to do at home to prepare meals is allowable. After all, eating is a "work of necessity." Our bodies don't stop needing fuel on the Lord's Day.

It probably doesn't take much more physical energy to push the buttons on a microwave on the Lord's Day than it did for Jesus and His disciples to rub heads of grain together with their fingers on the Sabbath.

It's so easy to become legalistic with this.

 

[KMK]

When I started to observe it, THEN I saw the wisdom in it.

Don't knock it, till you've tried it!

PS 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God..."

If we don't hedge about a certain amount of time in our lives to be still, we miss out on intimacy with God. Too much business is the way of the fool. (Ecc 5:3) What better way to guard your quiet time than by guarding the Lord's Day?

 

[non dignus]

Just a thought to the OP:

What if you lived near a state line where the next state had a different time zone? Couldn't you just cross into the next time zone and keep the commandment?

So, maybe this really only works for a covenant community that was all in one time zone in Palestine.