Rewards and Good works, Need help!

[puritansound]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I have been listenening quite a bit to the White Horse Inn. A few months back, a referance cam up to the Heidelberg catechism q62 and q63. This has to do with rewards for believers. This seems to indicate that we do not earn rewards. This is also the position I believe they had on the program.
This has led to a discussion with my pastor (who I believe leans more toward Gods soveriegnty than Reformed in his theological perspective), Which I will get to.
Now my big question is this. What is it that we will be rewarded with? Are the scriptures dealing with indicating rewards for believers and varying amounts really mean what they seem @ first glance? are there varying degrees of treasure that we will be given? I personaly seem to have a problem with this:
My position is this:
Everything God gives me (rewards) is because of Christ and His works. Christ purchased both my Justification and my Sanctification. I do not do good works, but it is Christ who does the good works (through me). For me to be able to do good works I would have to be righteous, not just declared righteous. And this can not happen because I am totally depraved (still as a believer), there not being anywhere where sin does not taint, corrupting all that I do. My motives are not pure enough to satisfy God. But Christs are!
So when our works are be tried , All our works (even the ones that we think are good) will be burned, but Christ's works will stand.
My pastor does not agree with this...he believes that Christ has made it possible to earn some type of reward. He sites 2Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:8-15, Mt 13:23, Phil 2:12-13, Rom 2:5-8. He believes that there will be distintions of reward in heaven, based on these scriptures. Please let me say that he believes that ultimately they are all atributed to Christ.What does that mean?
My first response to all of this is: what could God possibly give me that he has not given me already? Is not Christ my treasure? What would I want with bobbles!?
How am I to interprete these passages?. To think that somehow I put God in my debt gives me a sense of dread.
Can someone help me formulate a response?
OR, am I way off base? please help!

 

[Amazing Grace]

This has led to a discussion with my pastor (who I believe leans more toward Gods soveriegnty than Reformed in his theological perspective), Which I will get to.

WHat do you mean by this? Does not reformed bring with it the assumption of God's Sov in all?

 

[puritansound]

I'm sorry, I guess I am finding it hard to define what I mean. I guess he would be more in line with the 4 point Calvinism of a Chafer. I think what I was really trying to get at was that the angle that he was comming from, has a differn't emphasis. The Reformed faith of lets say Presbyterianism just has a differnt tone or aura, than lets say ,oh, a John Piper/Baptist kind of feel (not that I am singling anyone out). Now, If you can pick your way through that and tell me what I mean, you win a prize! Sorry if I am confusing anyone (myself included).

 

[Amazing Grace]

I sitll have no clue as to your distinction J, but perhaps that is me. But from what you said on how he interprets certain verses, let's look at them..

Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

This happens this side of the grave. Nothing to do about heaven in this parable.

1 Cor 3;;; Nothing mentioned here about different rewards in heaven either.


2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

The reward is this:
he that believeth shall be saved, he that believeth not shall be damned


12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Again i see nothing remotely about rewards in heaven here.

Are you sure you have the right scriptures? I would have an easier time proving salvation by Grace alone using Job 1:1a There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job

 

[TaylorOtwell]

What about Luke 19:11-26? I'd like to know the meaning of the ten cities and five cities...

 

[puritansound]

Maybe I should just stop while I am ahead...I dont even know what I mean anymore. Many time I speak before thinking things through, but thanks for your help. Anyways, I spoke to him again today and he says that though he can not explain the dynamic, scripture seems to imply that there are varying degrees of reward in heaven. Are there any others out there who could make the case for or against this view?

 

[moral necessity]

J.,

I agree with you on this topic; yet, I see scripture speak of rewards in certain places. I think the two ideas can be meshed together without compromise. I listen to the White Horse Inn on occassion also, and think the program is excellent. With regard to the topic, Calvin said it well, when he said something to the effect of "God gives us all things in Christ, and graciously treats us as if those things were our very own." So, this would imply that God regards our love and obedience towards him as if it were our very own work, even though Christ accomplished the work within us and caused us to do it. Also, Christ has so united himself to us, and we are so ingrafted into him, that we are one before the Father. So, he rewards us as if we were Christ himself, for we are inseparably connected to him, and he rewards our works as they appear before him in Christ, cleansed and washed and sanctified in his blood. They are imperfect works, but yet they are not entirely evil, because we have his Spirit within us participating in those works, and because they are made acceptable in the beloved by his grace.

As Revelation says, when we receive our crowns in heaven, we will cast them before Christ, because we know that they were the work of him.

This is what I think for now.

Blessings!

 

[Me Died Blue]

This is a good question. There was a discussion on this very issue a couple months ago. Here are my thoughts from that thread:

Regarding the various passages throughout both the Old and New Testaments that specifically speak of reward for various ways of life, good deeds, and endurance of persecution, I honestly see nothing in the texts that specifically point to or implies anything beyond the reward of eternal life and glorification that all believers are guaranteed on the basis of their unity with Christ and their credit of His active obedience - and I certainly see no (systematic) theological reason to believe such, either.

Theologically, when God looks at us and the lives we lived, why (or even how, logically and in a legally consistent way) would He see the perfect record of our imputed righteousness in Christ when asking, "Are they righteous enough to dwell in my presence and obtain eternal life," yet see the imperfect record of our actual deeds in gradual conformity to Christ when asking, "How righteous are they for the nature and level of the reward and acknowledgment I should give them?" Sounds arbitrary.

Textually, verses like Matthew 10:41-42, Mark 9:41, Luke 6:35 1 Corinthians 3:14, Colossians 3:23-25 and Hebrews 10:35 (often cited as alleged support for the doctrine of degrees of reward in Heaven) all speak of specific good deeds and heart conditions that will lead to "reward" if kept - but many verses throughout the Scriptures likewise speak of works and obedience as being the way to eternal life. We always understand the latter in light of Christ's imputed righteousness, yet somehow seem to forget about or disregard that doctrine when considering the former. Another example is 2 John 1:8, which speaks of winning a full reward, and not losing what we have worked for - but how is that any different than the various salvific warning passages to the visible New Testament congregations, or Philppians 3:11-14 in which Paul speaks of the prize that he is pressing to attain as being "the resurrection from the dead " and "the upward call of God in Christ Jesus"?

I think Proverbs 22:4 is a good verse illustrating the nature of this issue overall: "The reward for humility and fear of the Lord is riches and honor and life." The "riches" and possibly even "honor" spoken of here have the exact same apparent nature and contextual appearance as do the "rewards" spoken of any of the various passages often cited to support degrees of reward in Heaven. Yet in this verse, what is the third benefit indiscriminately spoken of right next to those other two? "Life." And we certainly agree on that being something that we fully and solely obtain through Christ's righteousness. So the burden of proof would seem to be on those who would make the "riches" or "honor" a different story.

 

[BuddyOfDavidClarkson]

What a lovely post.

J.,

I agree with you on this topic; yet, I see scripture speak of rewards in certain places. I think the two ideas can be meshed together without compromise. I listen to the White Horse Inn on occassion also, and think the program is excellent. With regard to the topic, Calvin said it well, when he said something to the effect of "God gives us all things in Christ, and graciously treats us as if those things were our very own." So, this would imply that God regards our love and obedience towards him as if it were our very own work, even though Christ accomplished the work within us and caused us to do it. Also, Christ has so united himself to us, and we are so ingrafted into him, that we are one before the Father. So, he rewards us as if we were Christ himself, for we are inseparably connected to him, and he rewards our works as they appear before him in Christ, cleansed and washed and sanctified in his blood. They are imperfect works, but yet they are not entirely evil, because we have his Spirit within us participating in those works, and because they are made acceptable in the beloved by his grace.

As Revelation says, when we receive our crowns in heaven, we will cast them before Christ, because we know that they were the work of him.

This is what I think for now.

Blessings!

 

[Gesetveemet]

It is a doctrine that we don't hear much of anymore. Perhaps this will help.

Quote from Hoesema

But the blessing of the Lord is upon the righteous. And they receive the reward of grace. For Christ merited all for them, and bestows all on them. By grace they are saved. By grace they are justified and have the forgiveness of sin and the right to eternal life. By grace they have the right and the privilege to do those good works which God has ordained for them from before the foundation of the world. And so, when they receive the reward of glory in the way of good works, their reward is a reward of grace.

Herman Hoeksema

Quote from Herman Hanko article

The Reward of Grace

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be (Rev. 22:12).

Question: "A person saved, say, only a year ago can be far more advanced in the Christian life than someone saved sixty years ago. Does heavenly reward depend on stage reached or accumulated total service over many years?"

I have given to this article the title "The Reward of Grace" because the question has to do with what Reformed and Presbyterian theologians have consistently given to the reward which believers receive for their works. It has been called the reward of grace because, while, indeed, a believer is rewarded for his works, this reward is of grace alone.

Prof. Herman Hanko

You can read the rest of Hanko's article here.

Trouble in Marriage; Reward of Grace




.

 

[puritansound]

Thank you and God bless to all that have helped...there is such a smile in my heart!