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Discussion in 'Cults & World Religions' started by Romans922, Jul 28, 2018.
General Session 1
General Session 2
General Session 3
To view, please download and then watch.
Placing these links in the Cults and World Religions forum seems all too appropriate.
"Promoting LGBT plus Flourishing in Historic Christian Traditions"
LOL......which historic tradition was that??
I seriously didn’t know where else to put it.
Is this PCA allowed, or not really PCA at all, or some folks leading it are in PCA churches?
It’s sponsored and hosted by a PCA church in St. Louis.
Keep an eye on the Twitter feeds, and if possible save the tweets. Some of them are pretty horrific. One of the speakers was joking about gnostics gang-raping pastors in the bathroom. (I did not make that last sentence up)
I would suggest listening to this podcast which interviews Pastor Greg Johnson, who pastors the hosting church. Some of the things he says are very troubling. For example, at one point in this interview, he said he was "flabbergasted" that anyone would say that our fallen condition is itself sin. He is in direct opposition to WCF 6.5, which says, "This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be, through Christ, pardoned and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin."
What is happening to our kids? I know a fella in the middle of this event, reared by dear friends of mine
When it comes to this issue rational faculties are fleeing the minds even those we'd expect better of. Most worldlings thirty years ago understood the raw destructiveness of these sins. To watch 'conservative' evangelicals rehab this sin angers and hurts me. I work with these people and most of their lives are a complete mess.
It would almost make one think some PCA minsters don't know, are not taught or maybe don't care what the confession of faith teaches they supposedly hold to in their ordination vows.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Please pray for the PCA in the months ahead. This is a public scandal that brings disrepute upon the Church of Jesus Christ. I hope those who mourned over sinsof thepast in the PCA will see the need to weep openly at the sins that have resulted from the fruitsof "missional theology" gone to seed.
If you wouldn't mind, I would like for you to unpack what you mean by this, because I have had many of the same concerns about the seminary I attended (in my signature), but I have really never been able to articulate them well.
I’ve been at a really Solid PCA Church for about three for four months now. How should we who are new to the PCA respond to this? And, what do you guys foresee happening to the PCA in the near future? I know no one here is a prophet, but what do you all predict will happen next? I mean, when will enough be enough?
What is the Social Justice Warrior Moderator of the PCA Jun doing about this?
You might review these until Rich checks in:
There are plenty of wonderful solid PCA churches and pastors out there. It can take years for problems to wind through presbyteries and then higher courts. Don't worry. If your presbytery went bad, your church leaders would either pull out along with a major PCA split, or you would know to leave. But that time isn't even close yet.
It isn't just this. It is Federal Vision and the role of women already causing trouble. There will always be trouble and tares until Jesus comes back. Enjoy where you are and don't worry about it at all right now.
One of the speakers was a youth group leader at my PCA church growing up - didn't show any of these beliefs back then but ah well. It is a sad state of affairs for a church to tolerate this madness.
I don't want to hide behind "it's complicated" because sometimes you can sense what's wrong without being able to tie everything together.
The good news is that Revoice went too far even for many ministers in the PCA who would normally be not so much cheerleaders for folks but enablers because they would shield from criticism. Somethings are happening which I'm hopeful will be healthy for our Church.
My comment about "missional" is that I think it's become a supplement for a solid undertanding of the Covenant and Reformed theological hermeneutics. Too many are increasingly buying into the notion that some sort of "missiological" impulse requires us to see what other "communities" are going to do with the Christian message and that, somehow, the "conversation" produces theological perspectives that enrich us altogether. This is why some are far too patient with Truth's Table and the foolish things that are said because we don't want to squelch conversation and outreach and leave room at the table and try to avoid suppressing with our majority culture.
It's not so much that people are abandoning the core of the Reformed Christian faith (yet, their children and grandchildren probably will) but the systematic core that describes what it is is placed under the larger umbrella of a conviction the the culture around us needs to be exegeted and then combined with what we know and that we need to focus on how theology is impacted by it. One CTS grad admitted to me that other Seminaries train men who are much more solid theologically while everything they learned was always brought through the rubric of practicality first and thought of in terms of how they would apply it for pastoral work.
I'm all for pastoral or real world application but there is a "science" or knowledge od theology that is necessary to be mastered by the young mind and growth and maturity is the place where we learn (along with mentors) hoew to put it into practice. Every discipline of knowledge understands this. You don't learn engineering by building a bridge and deciding what parts of Calculus or Physics or Materials Engineering are practical to the building of a bridge. Rather, you spend years with the foundational tools and knowledge that wiill be combined through years of practice and mentorship to produce a solid bridge.
Great, I'll give it a listen when I go home.
I believe the adversary is playing hardball on this and many issues in the PCA. At least one person I know has "come out" because of last weekend's conference making statements -- affirming traditional marriage, vowing celibacy -- while making an identity statement as a believer and one who is attracted to other men.
I believe these 3 dropbox documents are clips of the 3rd session. For anyone that would like more first hand resources I've compiled a list of them here:
The resource list includes:
General session #2 (Video + Audio)
General session #3 (Video + Audio + Transcript)
PCA Pastor Greg Johnson's presentation (Audio only)
I'm still working on General session #2's transcript and I'll link that when it's completed.
satan has been getting some real play on this issue of alternate to the Bible lifestyles among many denominations and churches past several years. This is what happens to a church or to a group when the supreme authority of the scriptures gets either ignored or watered down, in order to accommodate cultural concerns.
What's the appropriate channel for the PCA to censure or otherwise discipline the church that was involved in this debacle? Does the Presbytery need someone to file charges, or something of that sort?
34-1. Process against a minister shall be entered before the Presbytery of
which he is a member. However, if the Presbytery refuses to act in doctrinal cases or cases of public scandal and two other Presbyteries request the General Assembly to assume original jurisdiction (to first receive and initially hear and determine), the General Assembly shall do so.
Sadly, orthodoxy has previously been questioned in this presbytery.
I have similar concerns and have been wondering the same. As a former southern baptist, I still do not know the "Ins and outs" of Presbyterian church government. I have shared my concerns with a couple of elders in my church (who are incredibly Godly men), but honestly they are very busy-and wanted to wait for the conference to take place before considering any measures.
As a student at Covenant, I can tell you that the student body is divided over Revoice. If I had to guess the faculty is probably divided over it as well. The organizers of Revoice did recruit many of our students to be volunteers.
Covenant is at an odd place at the moment, and I feel like I've got a pretty good perspective because I was not born and raised in the PCA, and did not know that the school existed until last year.
In my 2 semesters I've had some great classes that were both highly reformed and theologically rigorous (Christian Ethics, Reformation & Modern Church history, Greek 1&2) but I've also had a few duds...one of which was a critical race theory class masquerading as a missions course. And an apologetics course that did not teach apologetics, but rather was largely an appeal to discover God in every person and conversation (which is not untrue, but not what I was expecting).
Honestly my school just feels vulnerable. Communication at covenant is terrible. Between departments, staff and the student body. Information is hard to come by and sometimes mishandled. There also seems to be little accountability for the profs and staff alike. Assignments and papers can go ungraded until the semester is over. Chapel is a mixed bad and poorly attended.
Perhaps my biggest complaint; and I promise I am enjoying my Covenant experience overall, is that the seminary does not seem to have any sort of direction. If we have a mission statement I don't know it. If there is a plan for the future the student body doesnt know it. Enrollment is down and there are rumors that the school is tanking financially, but nobody knows if that's concrete or not. There just seems to be very little passion, direction or even purpose...its kind of sad.
I say all that to say this: the theology of Revoice (which is incredibly deceitful) is only aided by the silence (which is all too common) coming from Covenant- which categorically denies being involved with the conference, and yet a prominent professor, a long with many students and alumni were involved. Many of my friends don't know what to believe or how to respond. Mark Yarhouse, a prominent Christian psychologist, is adored by the counseling department on campus, and his philosophy undergirds much of what was taught at Revoice. I do wonder if that is the reason why Covenant has not responded.
Again, I hope I'm not coming off as overly-critical. I have enjoyed CTS as a whole, and my prayer is that my school moves forward and continues to equip pastors for the ministry. So far I feel adequately equipped, but I do worry for Covenants future.
(Also, the opinions expressed here are not solely my own. I've been in conversation with several students who feel the same.)
Who taught your missions course and your apologetics course?
Put this in the evidence files.