Reprobation: Monergistic or Synergistic?
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Sinners for what they do due to having sin nature's, as confirmed by both words and deeds.
This might be interesting here.
https://renewingyourmind.org/2018/03/01/the-hardening-of-pharaohs-heart
https://renewingyourmind.org/2018/03/01/the-hardening-of-pharaohs-heart
smalltown_puritan
Puritan Board Freshman
BCF (1689) V.4 says, ‘as the sinfulness of their acts proceedeth only from the creatures, and not from God, who, being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin’. I believe this to be an accurate summary of God’s reprobation. We are told, although, God hardened Pharoah’s heart, and gives sinners over to a reprobate mind. Thus, God uses sin sinlessly according to His counsel.
However, while the Passive view of reprobration seems a very reasonable view, I think it may be too lax in considering God’s active role in enduring vessels of wrath for the display of His glory and His grace toward vessels of mercy. Perhaps there is some theologian who has explained a more ‘balanced’ (for lack of a better term) view?
However, while the Passive view of reprobration seems a very reasonable view, I think it may be too lax in considering God’s active role in enduring vessels of wrath for the display of His glory and His grace toward vessels of mercy. Perhaps there is some theologian who has explained a more ‘balanced’ (for lack of a better term) view?
Connor Longaphie
Puritan Board Freshman
I would say, monergistically a work of man
Deuteronomy2929
Puritan Board Freshman
The fall was decreed, but God is not the author of sin.
God ordained what the result would end up being, but Adam still freely chose to sin, correct?
wcf_linux
Puritan Board Freshman
Adam sinned by his own power. One could call that freedom.
Jacob was elect and Esau reprobate, "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls." (Rom 9:11, ESV)
Esau's sin and unbelief were providentially ordained, but they are still something that "God endured" and not God's work in Esau. "You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?' ... What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory." (Rom 9:19,21-22)
He has prepared them both, but that does not mean there is symmetry in the process. Insisting on symmetry (as OP's friend seems to) is the source of many theological evils.
earl40
Puritan Board Professor
Adam sinned by his own power. One could call that freedom.
Jacob was elect and Esau reprobate, "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls." (Rom 9:11, ESV)
Esau's sin and unbelief were providentially ordained, but they are still something that "God endured" and not God's work in Esau. "You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?' ... What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory." (Rom 9:19,21-22)
He has prepared them both, but that does not mean there is symmetry in the process. Insisting on symmetry (as OP's friend seems to) is the source of many theological evils.
There is symmetry so far as who God elects and those He does not.
wcf_linux
Puritan Board Freshman
Yes. But the means are different. The sinner sins according to their own power and motives, which are secondary to God's motives. ("As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good" Genesis 50:20) The elect love God because He has stepped in and effectually called us.
earl40
Puritan Board Professor
The amount of reward in heaven and punishment in hell is based on men's works. We ought not to divide the works from the person who is either elect or reprobate according to God's will, Who works all things according to His will.
wcf_linux
Puritan Board Freshman
I'm not saying anything either way about reward or punishment. I'm making a distinction between God's action on the elect in salvation (which is monergistic) vs the sins and disbelief of the reprobate (where God is ordinarily working through secondary causes and with a different intention from the sinner).
Do God has passive reprobation going on then?
wcf_linux
Puritan Board Freshman
It depends on what you mean by "passive reprobation." God actively ordains the existence of all people that will exist (elect or reprobate), and particularly in His own wisdom elects some to salvation. I lean towards understanding reprobation as a consequence of those two "lists". God, so to speak, determines the list of those who will exist and also the list of those who He will save. I would say that "reprobation" is being in the first list but not the second. Depending on definitions and emphasis, that could be described as "active" or "passive" reprobation.
I use passive as in God chooses to bypass the lost sinners that are not saved and just grants to them in a sense what they desire, freedom from Him.
wcf_linux
Puritan Board Freshman
In that sense, then, no, not passive. He's not intervening to justify and is (in the general case) leaving the reprobate to their sinful ways. But that is only passive in the sense of "leaving them to the outworking of ordinary secondary causes." But in a different sense God's providence is never truly passive. Whatever happens happens because God has willed it to be so.
But the reprobate will not be getting what they want out of life. And, unlike how some might like to put it, there really isn't "freedom" in damnation. The doors of hell are not locked from the inside. God will quite actively judge sinners for their works at the last judgment.
I understand what you are saying here, and agree, just not able to see double predestination in the sense God determining both lost and saved in exact same measure....
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