Reformed Baptist and circumsision

[raderag]

[quote:32a2bacb52][i:32a2bacb52]Originally posted by SolaScriptura[/i:32a2bacb52]
[quote:32a2bacb52][i:32a2bacb52]Originally posted by raderag[/i:32a2bacb52]

I really want to get reformed Baptists views here rather than argue. [/quote:32a2bacb52]

Ok, so now you've got one reformed Baptist's view. [/quote:32a2bacb52]

Yes, that I believe in circumsisional regeneration. Golly Gee.

 

[Tallen]

Circumcisional Regeneration?

[b:640dadd07c]For circumcision truly profits [u:640dadd07c]if you keep the Law[/u:640dadd07c], but if you are a transgressor of the Law, circumcision becomes uncircumcision[/b:640dadd07c]. If then the uncircumcision keeps the ordinances of the Law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And the uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the Law, shall it not judge you, who through letter and circumcision become transgressors of the Law? [b:640dadd07c]For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter[/b:640dadd07c]; whose praise is not from men, but from God. (Rom 2:25-29)

[b:640dadd07c]For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy[/b:640dadd07c]. (1Co 7:14)


Is not circumcision a covenantal response to obey the law of God? This response is extended to a believer's family. For the blessings found in the law are given to the believer and his family. [i:640dadd07c]Therefore it may not be regeneration that happens in the child that is circumcised [u:640dadd07c]but instead sanctification that happens[/u:640dadd07c][/i:640dadd07c]. He is included in the parental promise of the law until a time that he becomes responsible for his actions. At that time if he is a transgressor of God's covenant and law, his circumcision is counted as uncircumcision for circumcision is truly of the heart in those that are responsible. Salvation is based upon election and this is something that the Spirit of God reserves to Himself, that is the salvation of individuals. We cannot judge who is God's from this perspective but we can know who is a child of a covenant follower. The same is true of Baptism it is a covenantal response and not an act that saves individuals. Salvation is of the inward man and not of the outward acts, but our response to the covenantal sacraments truly have effect and bearing upon those that obediently follow these ordinances. A Good example is that of John the Baptist who leapt in his mothers womb, election already found it's person for he was to be a man of God. It would be impossible for John to have been circumcised (Rom 9:11).

[b:640dadd07c]Even so then, [u:640dadd07c]also in this present time[/u:640dadd07c] a remnant [u:640dadd07c]according to the election of grace[/u:640dadd07c] has come into being. [u:640dadd07c]But if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace[/u:640dadd07c][/b:640dadd07c]. But if it is of works, then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work. What then? [b:640dadd07c]Israel has not obtained that which it seeks, [u:640dadd07c]but the election obtained it[/u:640dadd07c], and the rest were hardened [/b:640dadd07c](Rom 11:5-7)

It is according to election that salvation happens. This is totally and absolutely the work of God, works have no bearing upon salvation whether it is circumcision or baptism. It is an effectual act of grace (Eph 2:8-9).

There is no such thing as baptismal regeneration and there was not such thing as circumcision-al regeneration, instead, there is always salvation according to the grace of God.

 

[raderag]

[quote:f37ef71e57][i:f37ef71e57]Originally posted by Tallen[/i:f37ef71e57]
[b:f37ef71e57]For circumcision truly profits [u:f37ef71e57]if you keep the Law[/u:f37ef71e57], but if you are a transgressor of the Law, circumcision becomes uncircumcision[/b:f37ef71e57]. If then the uncircumcision keeps the ordinances of the Law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And the uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the Law, shall it not judge you, who through letter and circumcision become transgressors of the Law? [b:f37ef71e57]For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter[/b:f37ef71e57]; whose praise is not from men, but from God. (Rom 2:25-29)

[b:f37ef71e57]For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy[/b:f37ef71e57]. (1Co 7:14)


Is not circumcision a covenantal response to obey the law of God? This response is extended to a believer's family. For the blessings found in the law are given to the believer and his family. [i:f37ef71e57]Therefore it may not be regeneration that happens in the child that is circumcised [u:f37ef71e57]but instead sanctification that happens[/u:f37ef71e57][/i:f37ef71e57]. He is included in the parental promise of the law until a time that he becomes responsible for his actions. At that time if he is a transgressor of God's covenant and law, his circumcision is counted as uncircumcision for circumcision is truly of the heart in those that are responsible. Salvation is based upon election and this is something that the Spirit of God reserves to Himself, that is the salvation of individuals. We cannot judge who is God's from this perspective but we can know who is a child of a covenant follower. The same is true of Baptism it is a covenantal response and not an act that saves individuals. Salvation is of the inward man and not of the outward acts, but our response to the covenantal sacraments truly have effect and bearing upon those that obediently follow these ordinances. A Good example is that of John the Baptist who leapt in his mothers womb, election already found it's person for he was to be a man of God. It would be impossible for John to have been circumcised (Rom 9:11).

[b:f37ef71e57]Even so then, [u:f37ef71e57]also in this present time[/u:f37ef71e57] a remnant [u:f37ef71e57]according to the election of grace[/u:f37ef71e57] has come into being. [u:f37ef71e57]But if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace[/u:f37ef71e57][/b:f37ef71e57]. But if it is of works, then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work. What then? [b:f37ef71e57]Israel has not obtained that which it seeks, [u:f37ef71e57]but the election obtained it[/u:f37ef71e57], and the rest were hardened [/b:f37ef71e57](Rom 11:5-7)

It is according to election that salvation happens. This is totally and absolutely the work of God, works have no bearing upon salvation whether it is circumcision or baptism. It is an effectual act of grace (Eph 2:8-9).

There is no such thing as baptismal regeneration and there was not such thing as circumcision-al regeneration, instead, there is always salvation according to the grace of God. [/quote:f37ef71e57]

Hey Ted, great to see you here, and I agree.