Rebuking the Devil

Discussion in 'Spiritual Warfare' started by Pergamum, Nov 29, 2008.

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  1. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Are we to do it? The answer seems "no" - but rather to appeal to God to do it for us.

    Can I build a case for this from Zech 3 where the Angel of the Lord (the Pre-incarnate Christ?) rebukes the devil?


    Andalso what about Jude?
    -----Added 11/29/2008 at 07:59:14 EST-----
    no takers?
     
  2. Tim

    Tim Puritan Board Graduate

    Can we rebuke "in the name of" God or Christ, etc?
     
  3. toddpedlar

    toddpedlar Iron Dramatist Staff Member

    In short, I don't see rebuking of Satan as a normative practice for us. It seems to me the instances in the Scriptures of Satan being rebuked come from those whose direct knowledge of Satan's presence surpasses ours. It would be futile, I'd think, to utter any sort of rebuke to Satan if he personally is not involved in the situation that we are dealing with. If Satan isn't in our presence troubling us, then he can't be rebuked. I would be concerned about rebuking Satan in an instance in which he is not involved at all, but in fact the cause of our troubles and difficulties is God Himself in chastisement. What a horrible mistake to make!

    Since Satan is a finite creature, it doesn't seem likely that most of us have ever directly encountered him in any way, either. I suspect he's got better things to be doing than personally giving me a hard time.

    Rather, I think pleas to God our Father for mercy, strength and grace to support us in our time of need, are right and needful for times in which we are facing troubles. Those pleas we know are heard - and as His children we know that they are either answered with deliverance or with sufficient grace for the day.
     
  4. larryjf

    larryjf Puritan Board Senior

    Can 2 Cor 12:7 give us insight to the question...

    So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, an angel of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
     
  5. sofarawaykisses

    sofarawaykisses Puritan Board Freshman

    What about using rebuking animals/ circumstances with "In the Name of Jesus"...
    For instance this women told me that she was taking a walk with her niece, when a huge pitbull came at her and she rebuked the dog in the name of Jesus. She said that dog turned around and ran off.


    Someone very close to me, also uses this term if the days is not going right. Such as "In the Name of Jesus I ask that you would bless my day, and I rebuke all of the demonic spirits..."

    Are these bibical principles?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  6. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Good thing that dog knew English.
     
  7. Backwoods Presbyterian

    Backwoods Presbyterian Puritan Board Doctor

    :lol:
     
  8. larryjf

    larryjf Puritan Board Senior

    If they were biblical principles then there would be examples set out for us in the Bible for these principles.

    Rebuking is different from petitioning the Lord through prayer.
    Our authority lies more in the preaching of the Gospel than it does in the rebuking of demons.

    As our weapons are spiritual in nature, we keep in mind that our sword is the Word of God. As we preach the Word of God the gates of Hell are destroyed and God's kingdom progresses.
     
  9. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Sofarawaykisses:


    WELCOME! I haven't yet got the chance to say hi! HOWDY! Nice to have you here.
     
  10. sofarawaykisses

    sofarawaykisses Puritan Board Freshman

    So what this lady was doing was petitioning in prayer? Maybe I should give you more of the context of the situation. I visited a youth group, and it was a women youth pastor. She was covering the basis how we need to have reverance for God, and her reasoning was that Christ died for us, also the fact that we can see how awesome God is in nature. Which I agree with. But from there she used the example listed above and then further stated that if we accept Jesus in our hearts, he will give us control over nature, because God made creatures for us. So therefore we are in control of the animals and what they are capable of doing.

    Peragum, thanks for the welcome :]
     
  11. larryjf

    larryjf Puritan Board Senior

    One must get their understanding of God and the Christian religion from Scripture, not from mere reason or presumptions.

    Having control over nature is something that is done in witchcraft, but not in Christianity.

    Putting ourselves in a place of control is nothing short of kicking Jesus off the throne so that we can sit there.
     
  12. sofarawaykisses

    sofarawaykisses Puritan Board Freshman

    Thats so true! I feel the same way, I could just not figure out how to put into words.
    Thank you.
     
  13. Prufrock

    Prufrock Arbitrary Moderation

    It seems difficult, to say the least, to "rebuke" something which we can neither see, nor truly sense, nor with which we can converse. I realize my experience is not normative for all the church, but I have never identified specifically where and when a demon/the devil is. When tried and tempted, I realize that this surely has something to do with the malice of the devil, and the principalities and powers of this world, the dominion of sin and death, but I would not even know how to converse with these things that I might rebuke them if I wanted to. Thus, all that I can do is to call upon the Lord and implore him to deliver me from the trials which beset me; and through a due use of the ordinary means, his grace will sustain me, and in his good time and manner, I shall be delivered or not.:2cents:
     
  14. sofarawaykisses

    sofarawaykisses Puritan Board Freshman


    Greatly put. :amen:
     
  15. No Longer A Libertine

    No Longer A Libertine Puritan Board Senior

    As a reformed christian I am cautious to cite Satan's direct presence and participation but if there were any moment in my life where the EXTREME vibe of evil and perhaps his very personal up-close snarl were in my ear, it would've been in West Hollywood last summer; sodomites the nation over congregated to flaunt their rebellion with parades and get drunk and have orgies in the name of their fallen desires.

    New to LA I was ignorant of this satanic ritual and ventured into that part of town on the eve of excessive debauchery; I had never prayed audibly in public until that night but wickedness was literally in the air. it was to be felt and it was to be escaped from.

    I do not say this with sarcasm when I tell you I expected to see Satan come around the corner twirling a baton as he prepared the parade to march.

    Because of the sheer density of evil, one so condensed it had an actual tangible spirit that ran through the unruly crowd, I am inclined to think the devil was in attendance that night.
     
  16. discipulo

    discipulo Puritan Board Junior

    I was consulting William Gurnall – the Christian in Complete Armour

    and Thomas Brooks – Precious Remedies against Satan’s devices

    and I could not find any direct addressing or rebuking of the devil.

    II Corinthians 12:8 or Jude 9 seem to sustain that (imo)


    But I would appreciate if you could comment on eventual implications

    for demonology and for our spiritual warfare prayer of:


    Luke 10:1 and 17 : the commission of the seventy

    After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two

    before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. (...)

    And the seventy returned again with joy, saying,

    Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy Name.




    And the eventual relation between

    the Lord Jesus quoting the Written Word of God to rebuke Satan. Mathew 4:4-10

    But he answered and said, It is written

    Jesus said unto him, It is written again

    Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written



    and Ephesians 6: 17

    And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God

    Scripture selections and emphasis mine


    Should we not then pray and quote scripture when tempted or oppressed?


    Where God is on one side, you may be sure to find the devil on the other. William Gurnall


    A soul, therefore, when deprived of the word of God, is given up unarmed to the devil for destruction.

    Now, then, will not the first machination of the enemy be to wrest the sword from the soldier of Christ?


    John Calvin’s letter to Cardinal Sadoleto.

    1539
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  17. Rocketeer

    Rocketeer Puritan Board Freshman

    I think that depends on what your definition of 'control' is. We, humans, are set over the creation by our Lord, and He will reckon with us, based on how we handled it. All direct mystical control is... weird, at least. I would very much doubt it being of the Lord. On the other hand, the Lord himself does control the entire creation, and Christians are invited to come to the throne of grace to ask what they need; God can hear our prayer, if He, in His wisdom, thinks it is beneficial to us, and thus we could indirectly control all of creation.

    I don't think that that is entirely true. Satan is not omnipresent, but: "He asked him, What [is] thy name? And he answered, saying, My name [is] Legion: for we are many." (Mark 5:9)

    Can the devil work in us? I am currently reading a book by Petrus Immens, a Dutch divine in Middelburg (Zealand) some centuries ago. It is called "De Godvruchtige Avondmaalganger", which means, "The Godly Partaker of the Lords Supper". At a certain point, he is dealing with why many of Gods children have difficulties in attaining to the assurance of faith, and he gives about two dozen reasons and then shows that they are no reason to doubt the veracity of ones conversion and faith. I have translated one of those, which partly deals with the devil - I will spare you the Dutch, unless someone requests it.

    And then he continues to say that wandering thoughts during worship are sins, but should not be cause to doubt of ones state in Christ.

    I translated this mainly, because I have had some troubles with this for a few weeks myself; but after I had prayed for it the Lord took it away remarkably soon, for which I have cause to be truly thankful.

    If you wish, I can translate a part in which he discerns the devils acting as well: in the case when a believer or pastor or whosoever does a good deed, and afterwards, his heart condemns him or suggests to him that he has done it for worldly ends. Immens says that that is the devil trying to stop us from doing good work, provided the thoughts are sudden and hateful to the soul, as he argued above.

    My own conclusion to all this would be that the devil can try to influence us, and that praying is better than rebuking, because of what the Lord promised with regard to prayer, and because rebuking seems to depend to much on the believer, and not enough on the One in whom we must believe. Praise be to Him for His eternal grace and endless mercy!
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  18. discipulo

    discipulo Puritan Board Junior

    sorry - this is a parenthesis

    Hi Co

    Thank you for your very relevant post.

    Since you are deepening that particular matter, I found this book very helpful myself

    also with a great chapter on De Nadere Reformatie (the 2nd Dutch Reformation)


    Quest for Full Assurance: The Legacy of Calvin & His Successors

    Joel R. Beeke

    Paperback: 395 pages
    ISBN-10: 0851517455
    Publisher: Banner of Truth 1999


    Synopsis on link below:

    Reformation Heritage Books
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  19. Kim G

    Kim G Puritan Board Junior

    Do these verses have any bearing on the discussion?

    Eph. 4:27--"neither give place to the devil."

    Eph. 6:11-12-- "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

    James 4:7--"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you."

    1 Peter 5:8--"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith."

    Is resisting different than rebuking?
     
  20. Scott1

    Scott1 Puritan Board Doctor

    Remember, we can always God for help, even in a panic!

     
  21. discipulo

    discipulo Puritan Board Junior

    James 4:7 resist is very much the same of Ephesians 6 stand or withstand

    The greek word basis is the same Histemi

    Ephesians 6:11-14

    Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,

    against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,

    that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;




    So the armour is mostly defensive - to resist - Anthistemi - the same word in I Peter 5:9 resist him

    Resisting has to do with that standing against the devil - (imo) that is not rebuking

    but mostly not surrender to his temptation.


    But one part of the Armour is offensive –and that is the Sword – the Word of God

    Using it – by addressing and rebuking the devil – is my question on my last post.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  22. Kim G

    Kim G Puritan Board Junior

    I guess that is my question as well, only you put it better. :)
     
  23. Scott1

    Scott1 Puritan Board Doctor

    I think the Reformers generally recognized we struggle against the world, the flesh, and the devil.

    No question there is much evil in this world- and as one grows in Christ, one will see it more (including in one's own life). All sin is evil and much of it comes from within us, the remnant of the fall inside that seeks other than God; a fallen world system that seeks other than God.

    The Lord's Prayer

    As a general biblical proposition, I don't think we are given supernatural authority as individual Christians to perform supernatural fetes or miracles such as rebuking forces, the weather, etc. However, we can certainly ask God to do it for us!
     
  24. JoeRe4mer

    JoeRe4mer Puritan Board Freshman

    I think the best thing to do in a situation like this is to go to the word of God and try to find a place where a person actually rebuked something in the name of Jesus. As far as I know there is no biblical evidence for rebuking animals and situations that come up "in the name of Jesus".

    If you think about it this makes perfect sense because animals and situations are NOT capable of accepting, rejecting or even understanding this kind of rebuke.

    Your best bet is to ask the person what scripture can be used to support this and then correct them rebuking the bad interpretation in the name of Jesus. ;)
     
  25. Joseph Ringling

    Joseph Ringling Puritan Board Freshman

    As Christians we don't have to "rebuke" the devil. The Spirit of Christ within us does it for us. The problem with people rebuking the devil in todays church, mostly modern charismatics, is that it tricks people into thinking there is a magic formula for stoping bad things from happening to you, and that the devil is behind all the bad. Would not Paul have "rebuked" the thorn in his flesh? As Calvinist we know as well as anyone about the providence of God. Things happen, good and bad. It can't all be blamed on the devil.


    1Peter 1:6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen[a] you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.


    Also consider Jude,8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
     
  26. Rangerus

    Rangerus Puritan Board Junior

    Here is a fellow Christian brother from our church who held the office of Worship Director for several years. He has since started a new ministry that focuses completely on Spiritual Warfare. The link to his web site is here: Johnny Sorrell

    I have heard him speak several times and find he uses some very interesting and thought provoking Bible based teachings on Warfare Praying, Applying the Armor of God, Praying for a Prodigal, and Generational Curses.

    Note to moderators: I'm not endorsing this, just passing on something I found.
     
  27. lynnie

    lynnie Puritan Board Senior

    Do you mean a rebuke in prayer, or an exorcism?

    Jesus said we would cast out demons in His name and gave us that authority. I have missionary friends who have been to places where the natives slit the throat of an animal, collect the blood, drink a "communion" out of a common cup, and the hub says you watch the the people fall on the floor and start writhing around and their face contorts and they are so obviously demon possessed.

    They've done some casting out demons in their mission work. They are more typically evangelical than Reformed and I don't know all the details. Jesus called it "the children's bread" and cast demons out of the covenant people back in His day. I don't know all the subtle nuances of possession versus oppression, but some folks do believe but they still need an evil spirit rebuked and commanded to leave them.

    Luke13: 10On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." 13Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
    14Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the people, "There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath."

    15The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water? 16Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?"



    Pergamum, as I recall you deal with some very evil tribal situations, right? Yeah, if it was me I'd be asking God to move, begging him to deliver, and trusting that even Satan and evil spirits are His tool in his sovereign plan. They can't do a thing w/o Him allowing it. Personally I would not be doing rebuking of Satan in situations but I might be real wrong.

    But exorcisms of individual people who WANT freedom, have turned to Jesus Christ and repented of sin but have demonic oppression from their past witchcraft or whatever...yeah, go for it.

    My thinking on this subject is in a lot of flux. I think repenting from sin and bible study and sacraments and so forth can accomplish a great deal. I do not know exactly where and when the need to rebuke and cast out demons comes in. I have on a few occasions met Christians with physical problems that I thought might be from an evil spirit (Jesus rebuked a fever and it immediately left the person). Kind of an intuitive thing, you get this creepy feeling around them of a literal dark presence. But they always have so many sin and doctrine issues also.

    I think I'll go pray for you, and for the whole church as long as I am at it :lol: I sure don't have the answer. But exorcism is a responsibility of the church that you may need to deal with in your missionary calling.
     
  28. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Puritan Board Junior

    Pergamum,
    From time to time we have heard of those who claim to rebuke,and bind Satan/ If they have bound Satan in Jesus name, How does he keep getting loose? Have they not bound him tight enough?:confused:
    Have you ever asked these persons how this happens:gpl:
     
  29. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    I think those that claim to rebuke the devil are not "binding" him for good but just fencing their own property I guess.

    I am an optimistic amil believer...so how do I believe that Satan is bound at all during this millenium time in which we live?
     
  30. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Puritan Board Junior

    In the amill scheme Satan is bound by God so that the gospel can spread worldwide through the word preached.
    In todays world all charasmatics and word of faith people claim to bind Satan, at every turn, sometimes several times in the same service:think:
    They do not mean it in an amill way. At least not those that i have spoken with.:duh:
     
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