Questionable Hymns

[DMcFadden]

Here are some . . .

25. \"God is She and He Together\"
31. \"Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide\"
34. \"O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power\"
35. \"Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle\"
36. \"Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling\"
38. \"Our Mother-Father God Is Near\"
45. \"Come, Sister-Brother Sprit\"
47. \"Father-Mother, Kind and Loving\"
48. \"Womb of All Creation Flowing\"
49. \"Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen\"
51. \"O Christ-Sophia, Rise\"

Surely - SURELY - these aren't real!

YES, they ARE real!!! "Inclusive Hymns For Liberating Christians" ISBN: 978-1571688606
Amazon has it if you want a spiral bound copy. I can't remember if I borrowed my copy from Marrow Man or Archlute???
Amazon.com: Inclusive Hymns for Liberating Christians (9781571688606): Jann Aldredge-Clanton, Larry E. Schultz: Books

You can pretty much find this stuff in many/most of the mainline denoms. Beware of anything being advertised as "feminist," "womynist," "inclusive," or "progressive."

 

[au5t1n]

Please infract me for quoting such blasphemy! I beg you!

Here are some . . .

25. "God is She and He Together"
31. "Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide"
34. "O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power"
35. "Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle"
36. "Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling"
38. "Our Mother-Father God Is Near"
45. "Come, Sister-Brother Sprit"
47. "Father-Mother, Kind and Loving"
48. "Womb of All Creation Flowing"
49. "Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen"
51. "O Christ-Sophia, Rise"

Surely - SURELY - these aren't real!

YES, they ARE real!!!

-----Added 10/26/2009 at 11:05:20 EST-----

But seriously, where do those come from; some sort of PCUSA hymnal?

 

[Grillsy]

A terrible one was already mentioned in the OP..."Battle Hymn of the Republic" written by a Unitarian. If you know why and when the song was written it becomes even worse.

Now, if you'll excuse me, i'm off to whistle Dixie.

 

[DMcFadden]

Where do these songs come from? See above edit to my post (#31).

 

[DMcFadden]

“Let Jesus Come into Your Heart,” by Lelia N. Morris.
If you are tired of the load of your sin, let Jesus come into your heart;
if you desire a new life to begin, let Jesus come into your heart.
If ’tis for purity now that you sigh, let Jesus come into your heart:
fountains for cleansing are flowing near by; let Jesus come into your heart.
If there’s a tempest your voice cannot still, let Jesus come into your heart;
if there’s a void this world never can fill, let Jesus come into your heart.
If you would join the glad songs of the blest, let Jesus come into your heart;
if you would enter the mansions of rest, let Jesus come into your heart.

Refrain: Just now, your doubtings give o’er;
just now, reject Him no more;
just now, throw open the door;
let Jesus come into your heart.

Or, how about this one? "The Savior is Waiting."

The Savior is waiting to enter your heart,
Why don’t you let Him come in?
There’s nothing in this world to keep you apart,
What is your answer to Him?
If you’ll take one step t’ward the Savior, my friend,
You’ll find His arms open wide;
Receive him, and all of your darkness will end,
Within your heart He’ll abide.

Refrain: Time after time he has waited before,
And now He is waiting again
To see if you’re willing to open the door,
O, how He wants to come in.

 

[ewenlin]

Ugh. Why did I stumble into this thread. What a way to start the morning.

 

[VaughanRSmith]

There's always "emptied himself of all but love..."

 

[MarieP]

I've heard of someone who detests the line from Away in a Manger that speaks about Jesus not crying as a baby because it is an implicit denial of Christ's full humanity.

That line's given me trouble each time I sing it. Is there good reason for me to be troubled by it, or no?

-----Added 10/27/2009 at 06:04:56 EST-----

On of my favorite hymns was always "It is Well with my Soul" But something I just recently learned is that the author, Horatio Spafford, had some serious theological issues! I assume that most of you are familiar with the basic story of his life (i.e. business burns down in Chicago, children die at sea, wife dies in a train wreck, etc...) but after all that he moved to Israel with his daughter and set up some kind of end-times cult. Now I have never noticed anything theologically suspect within that song, but how should the authors weird theology affect our use of an otherwise good song?

We sing songs written by Wesley...and Watts supposedly was not the most consistent man on the doctrine of the Trinity.

http://books.google.com/books?id=5M...ook_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAw

 

[FenderPriest]

"I'll Fly Away" has always rubbed me the wrong way for what seems to me an undiluted gnostic view of the physical world being the bad stuff, not sin.

Also, a note on "Above All". Paul Baloche wrote that song, and it has classically been taken to town for that last unfortunate line in the chorus. Bob Kauflin discusses the weaknesses of the song in his book, Worship Matters, and has discusses the problems with Baloche who confesses the way the song has been taken wasn't his intent. Even still, Baloche wrote the commending forward to Kauflin's book where he critiques his own song! What humility!

 

[P.F.]

Wesley's "And Can it Be that I should Gain"

Leaving aside the fact that the title reminds me of a bad diet:

"In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love divine."

Firstborn seraph???

 

[MarieP]

On of my favorite hymns was always "It is Well with my Soul" But something I just recently learned is that the author, Horatio Spafford, had some serious theological issues! I assume that most of you are familiar with the basic story of his life (i.e. business burns down in Chicago, children die at sea, wife dies in a train wreck, etc...) but after all that he moved to Israel with his daughter and set up some kind of end-times cult. Now I have never noticed anything theologically suspect within that song, but how should the authors weird theology affect our use of an otherwise good song?

I just remembered that there was a SS a few years ago on Spafford's life:

SermonAudio.com - Reformed Baptist Church

Taught by a USS Cole survivor, and now one of our deacons, no less!

 

[JBaldwin]

A lot times hymns such as "And Can it Be" have been changed in the Trinity to correct the theology. In this one it is changed to "Emptied Himself, so great His love and bled for Adam's chosen race."

Concerning the OP, I'm interested that few have touched the hymns we sing all the time (such as And Can it Be) and have gone straight for the obvious ones. A lot of hymnals are full of songs that have Arminian theology. Many of the hymns of the Wesleys are suspect.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

What about hymns in the Red Trinity Hymnal y'all would question?

 

[Scottish Lass]

What about hymns in the Red Trinity Hymnal y'all would question?

Many of those have been adjusted. At the bottom you'll see "Verses 1-3 by ___; Verse 4 by ____."

 

[JBaldwin]

What about hymns in the Red Trinity Hymnal y'all would question?

Many of those have been adjusted. At the bottom you'll see "Verses 1-3 by ___; Verse 4 by ____."

Yes, that's correct, and you will also notice that in other hymns words have been changed without a notation. That is because a word or two or even one phrase can be changed without violationg copyright laws.

 

[kevin.carroll]

Tim already mentioned my most hated: "The Garden." A close second is "Church in the Wildwood." I mean come, come, come, come on!

 

[baron]

Wesley's "And Can it Be that I should Gain"

Leaving aside the fact that the title reminds me of a bad diet:

"In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love divine."

Firstborn seraph???

I enjoy this verse of that hymn:

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

 

[Skyler]

This one:

Thorns on his head spear in his side
Yet it was a heartache that made him cry
He gave his life so you would understand

Is there any way you could say no to this man
If Christ himself were standing here
Face full of glory and eyes full of tears
And he held out his arms and his nail printed hands
Is there any way you could say no to this man
How could you look in his tear stained eyes
Knowing it's you he's thinking of
Could you tell him you're not ready to give him your life
Could you say you don't think you need his love
Jesus is here with his arms open wide

You can see him with your heart if you'll stop looking with your eyes
He's left it up to you, he's done all that he can
Is there any way you could say no to this man
How could you look in his tear stained eyes
Knowing it's you he's thinking of
Could you tell him you're not ready to give him your life
Could you say you don't think you need his love
Thorns on his head your life in his hands
Is there any way you could say no to this man
Is there any way you could say no to this man

 

[DMcFadden]

There's always "emptied himself of all but love..."

Wesley's line is typical of the kenotic movement in England at the time. Pretty lame Christology, however you cut it.

 

[FenderPriest]

What about hymns in the Red Trinity Hymnal y'all would question?

Just as a mild-point of interest - I sit in class right now next to a gentleman who goes to a church in the area where one of the editors for the Trinity Hymnal attends (he's 94!). He's met him. I gave him my Trinity Hymnal to try and get the guy's signature in it. It's kinda like meeting a rock star - a rock star for nerds...

 

[jwithnell]

Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus, and its in the Trinity Hymnal!?! Experiential at best, gnostic at worst.

 

[FenderPriest]

Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus, and its in the Trinity Hymnal!?! Experiential at best, gnostic at worst.

Ah, I disagree. I imagine it depends on how you read the third line of the chorus:

Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.

It says "the things of earth" not "the earth" (which would be Gnostic). This seems to me to have grounding in 1 John 2:15-17

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

Further, "Turn your eyes upon Jesus" just seems like a poetic way of restating what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 4:6 - "For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." How else do we "see" that light but by turning our eyes upon Jesus Christ with the eyes of the heart?

Thus, I don't really think the song is "gnostic at worst". Certainly there's an experiential element to it, but that is never declared as bad in the Bible.

 

[carlgobelman]

P&W Song "Love the Lord"

This particular praise & worship by Lincoln Brewster was sung in my non-denom church a few months ago. It bothered me so much, that I had to express my concerns to our elders. This song is pure law! Here are the lyrics:

Love the Lord your God
With all your heart
With all your soul
With all your mind
And with all your strength (2x)

With all your heart
With all your soul
With all your mind
And with all your strength
Love the Lord your God
With all your heart
With all your soul
With all your mind
And with all your strength

I will serve the Lord
With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength (2x)

With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength
I will serve the Lord
With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength

I will love You (I will love You)
I will praise You (I will praise You)
I will serve You, Lord (I will serve You)
I will trust You, Lord (I will trust You)

And with all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength
With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
With all my strength

I will love You Lord
With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength (3x)

There is an awful lot of "I will" in this song!

 

[jwithnell]

Ah, you could be right.

 

[Augusta]

What about hymns in the Red Trinity Hymnal y'all would question?

The following is from the red Trinity Hymnal #479. It portrays Christ as a hand-wringing God begging us to come.


Original Trinity Hymnal (blue), #694

Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling for you and for me;
See, on the portals he's waiting and watching,
Watching for you and for me.

Come home, come home,
Ye who are weary, come home;
Earnestly, tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling, O sinner, come home.

Why should we tarry when Jesus is pleading,
Pleading for you and for me?
Why should we linger and heed not his mercies,
Mercies for you and for me?

Time is now fleeting, the moments are passing,
Passing from you and from me;
Shadows are gathering, deathbeds are coming,
Coming for you and for me.

Oh! for the wonderful love he has promised
Promised for you and for me;
Though we have sinned, he has mercy and pardon,
Pardon for you and for me.

 

[Bern]

I knew someone at the last church I was a member of who objected to the "Above all powers" song by Paul Baloche, because of the last two lines " thought of me above all".

Its easy to criticise songs that describe salvation from mans perspective, because they do not specifically make God's glory the focal point. However, we must remember that Christ did what he did for our benefit as well as the glory of God. I think that is what the song is trying to say... Christ didn't put his own needs first, he showed love to us by laying down His life for our sakes.

 

[P.F.]

The following provides a list of the lyrics of the hymns in the "original" Trinity Hymnal.

Original Trinity Hymnal Lyrics

Most are not exceptionally questionable although you will notice an overall imbalance toward what could be called "lovey-dovey" songs and away from "fire and brimstone" songs.

 

[he beholds]

What do you guys think of this one:

Crucified
Laid behind a stone
You lived to die
Rejected and alone
Like a rose
Trampled on the ground
You took the fall
And thought of me
Above all

It's sad because the melody of this song is really good.

That doesn't bother me. I'm not sure that the meaning is incorrect. Christ did think of us above all, on earth. I know his own glory was a principal factor, but I don't think this contradicts that.

On of my favorite hymns was always "It is Well with my Soul" But something I just recently learned is that the author, Horatio Spafford, had some serious theological issues! I assume that most of you are familiar with the basic story of his life (i.e. business burns down in Chicago, children die at sea, wife dies in a train wreck, etc...) but after all that he moved to Israel with his daughter and set up some kind of end-times cult. Now I have never noticed anything theologically suspect within that song, but how should the authors weird theology affect our use of an otherwise good song?

I think truth can come from anywhere (though it ultimately comes from God!!). If I read truth or beauty or wisdom that is truly truth, beauty, or wisdom, I don't really mind the source.

 

[Southern Twang]

"I'll Fly Away" has always rubbed me the wrong way for what seems to me an undiluted gnostic view of the physical world being the bad stuff, not sin.

Fenderpriest beat me to it! When I attended a independent fundamentalist dispensational baptist church back in college, we would sing this song quite often.

"When I die hallelujah by and by, I'll fly away!"

 

[au5t1n]

Bern, that is what I said the first time I heard someone criticize the song, but I posted it here to see if others might have the same objection as he did.

I knew someone at the last church I was a member of who objected to the "Above all powers" song by Paul Baloche, because of the last two lines " thought of me above all".

Its easy to criticise songs that describe salvation from mans perspective, because they do not specifically make God's glory the focal point. However, we must remember that Christ did what he did for our benefit as well as the glory of God. I think that is what the song is trying to say... Christ didn't put his own needs first, he showed love to us by laying down His life for our sakes.