Question about a pastor leaving a presbytery

[Notthemama1984]

I watched this video and around the 9:20 mark it is mentioned in passing that it is up to the presbytery to release the pastor.

I don't have any views about Memorial Presbyterian or anything on the Revoice. I had not heard of either until watching this video.

My question is what does the idea of not releasing a pastor actually look like? Can the presbytery really do anything to prevent someone from going to another denom or go independent?

 

[Contra_Mundum]

I watched this video and around the 9:20 mark it is mentioned in passing that it is up to the presbytery to release the pastor.

I don't have any views about Memorial Presbyterian or anything on the Revoice. I had not heard of either until watching this video.

My question is what does the idea of not releasing a pastor actually look like? Can the presbytery really do anything to prevent someone from going to another denom or go independent?

So, a typical Presbyterian pastor is a member of the visible church (like other believers), but in the Presbyterian system/conception the body that holds that membership is the Presbytery (equ. of classis) rather than a single congregation, even the one he may serve in as its minister. The "court of original jurisdiction" over him is the body to which he belongs in membership. If charges are brought against him, they begin at Presbytery level.

Ordinarily, if a man leaves a Presbytery, it is to take a call in another Presbytery (or denomination of like faith and practice); and it is pro forma to regard his new call as valid and simply release him to a new oversight body. It is hardly different from "pew sitters" transferring membership for one reason or another, who are not under discipline.

Sometimes a man will demit the ministry, declaring he does not want to be a pastor any more. There has to be a process for handling this move, to the point where the man will be recognized as a member of a particular congregation. Sometimes a man will want to "work out of bounds," that is undertake labor of a ministerial kind but not such as is under the general oversight of the Presbytery or any other denominational organ. The Presbytery has to approve such labor, as they mean to acknowledge legitimate ministry service, but only retain the man and not his work as theirs.

What does this minister want to do? Besides the question of whether a man who should be repentant and possibly under formal discipline should be regarded as a minister "in good standing," the church he has been serving has chosen to leave the Presbytery's jurisdiction, making the pulpit itself "out of bounds." Will the Presbytery grant this pastor the right to labor "out of bounds?" He may express desire to leave the Presbytery entirely, leaving its jurisdiction while retaining the call to the same congregation he was serving. He could "renounce" the jurisdiction of the Presbytery, or he could ask to be released.

What should a church body do when a member desires to leave and become a member of a church that is not of "like faith and practice?" Sometimes, the choice is simply to give that person a letter that states: he left us without any disciplinary issues. What if a person is returning to Rome, or to a different apostate church? A congregation's ruling body may decide it will not simply let the person go without conducting some kind of discipline. That could range from arranging for a full trial (in absentia perhaps), or simply erasing a name (which is discipline without full due process).

In similar fashion, a Presbytery may decide not to simply wave goodbye to a man bent on leaving the body, if not under the best circumstances. Instead, they may decide that charges are warranted. Or they may erase the man's name when he renounces Presbytery's jurisdiction, which again is a kind of formal discipline, though without full due process. Any trial that takes place in absentia is hardly done for the sake of the person to be tried, though it could serve the purpose of satisfying public curiosity, a general benefit of seeing justice done in detail, or for the sake of people who were wounded by someone who has fled from accountability. Otherwise, the discipline of erasure may have to wait for Judgment Day to see final revelation and resolution--being ratified by heaven or overturned there.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Notthemama1984]

So, a typical Presbyterian pastor is a member of the visible church (like other believers), but in the Presbyterian system/conception the body that holds that membership is the Presbytery (equ. of classis) rather than a single congregation, even the one he may serve in as its minister. The "court of original jurisdiction" over him is the body to which he belongs in membership. If charges are brought against him, they begin at Presbytery level.

Ordinarily, if a man leaves a Presbytery, it is to take a call in another Presbytery (or denomination of like faith and practice); and it is pro forma to regard his new call as valid and simply release him to a new oversight body. It is hardly different from "pew sitters" transferring membership for one reason or another, who are not under discipline.

Sometimes a man will demit the ministry, declaring he does not want to be a pastor any more. There has to be a process for handling this move, to the point where the man will be recognized as a member of a particular congregation. Sometimes a man will want to "work out of bounds," that is undertake labor of a ministerial kind but not such as is under the general oversight of the Presbytery or any other denominational organ. The Presbytery has to approve such labor, as they mean to acknowledge legitimate ministry service, but only retain the man and not his work as theirs.

What does this minister want to do? Besides the question of whether a man who should be repentant and possibly under formal discipline should be regarded as a minister "in good standing," the church he has been serving has chosen to leave the Presbytery's jurisdiction, making the pulpit itself "out of bounds." Will the Presbytery grant this pastor the right to labor "out of bounds?" He may express desire to leave the Presbytery entirely, leaving its jurisdiction while retaining the call to the same congregation he was serving. He could "renounce" the jurisdiction of the Presbytery, or he could ask to be released.

What should a church body do when a member desires to leave and become a member of a church that is not of "like faith and practice?" Sometimes, the choice is simply to give that person a letter that states: he left us without any disciplinary issues. What if a person is returning to Rome, or to a different apostate church? A congregation's ruling body may decide it will not simply let the person go without conducting some kind of discipline. That could range from arranging for a full trial (in absentia perhaps), or simply erasing a name (which is discipline without full due process).

In similar fashion, a Presbytery may decide not to simply wave goodbye to a man bent on leaving the body, if not under the best circumstances. Instead, they may decide that charges are warranted. Or they may erase the man's name when he renounces Presbytery's jurisdiction, which again is a kind of formal discipline, though without full due process. Any trial that takes place in absentia is hardly done for the sake of the person to be tried, though it could serve the purpose of satisfying public curiosity, a general benefit of seeing justice done in detail, or for the sake of people who were wounded by someone who has fled from accountability. Otherwise, the discipline of erasure may have to wait for Judgment Day to see final revelation and resolution--being ratified by heaven or overturned there.

Hope this is helpful.

That is very helpful. I appreciate the time it took to type this all out.