Psalms and the Name "Jesus" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

Discussion in 'A capella Exclusive Psalmody' started by CDM, May 22, 2006.

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  1. CDM

    CDM Puritan Board Junior

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    How do you respond to the charge, "If you only sung Psalms, you would never hear the name of Jesus proclaimed in worship!"

    Make your "we are to be obedient to God's revealed will" answer last please. ;)
     
  2. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    Chris,

    I'll send you a u2u.
     
  3. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    Chris,
    Go here, and grab the PM audio and then move the slider bar to 49:20 where the objection is handled, albeit briefly. Or listen to the whole thing; but that is the location if you just want to hear one man's answer.

    http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18763

     
  4. Kaalvenist

    Kaalvenist Puritan Board Sophomore

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    Personally, I don't see how this argument makes any sense, unless we are commanded to sing the name of Jesus in worship. Presented as a syllogism, it would be,

    Major premise: "If we sing only Psalms in worship, we cannot sing the name of Jesus (because the name 'Jesus' does not appear in the Psalms)."

    Minor premise: "But we are commanded to sing the name of Jesus in worship."

    Conclusion: "Therefore, our songs in worship must not be limited to the Psalms."

    I would contest the minor premise.

    Of course, this argument is usually not presented as a logical syllogism; it is presented as an emotional appeal.

    I remarked on this argument from "the name of Jesus" a little while back, using a slightly different tack:

     
  5. BaptistCanuk

    BaptistCanuk Puritan Board Sophomore

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    Please, without anyone thinking I'm a trouble maker, show me where in the Bible that it says we can only sing from the Psalms? They are David's Psalms (most of them) and though they are useful for us, I don't know of anywhere in Scripture that commands us to only sing psalms.

    What do we do with the Psalms that talk about hating people or destruction? Are we supposed to hate people? Are we supposed to sing about hating people?

    I just wanted to comment on the above post too. Everything is about Jesus and our worship should be about Jesus too. If our worship neglects Jesus and never mentions Him, would He like that?
     
  6. R. Scott Clark

    R. Scott Clark Puritan Board Senior

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    It is an impovrished hermeutic which does not see Jesus revealed in the Psalter! The NT writers did not have that problem as they consistently quoted the Psalms (esp. Ps 110 which is quoted or alluded to about 22 times in the NT) frequently.

    As Ed Clowney argued for decades, the Bible is about Jesus. The only real question is how or in what way? Jesus is the righteous man (Ps e.g., 4:3); he has clean hands (Ps 24:4), the Father hears his prayer. He has performed his vows (Ps 61:8). He is the suffering servant. He is the resurrected Lord (Ps 16). He is the Shepherd (Ps 23) who was led and who leads us. He is the lord who made and fulfilled a covenant with my LORD (Ps 110).

    True, they have to be explained, but that's why we pay the minister, isn't it?

    We should try reading the Scriptures the way the NT did. It doesn't require the inspiration of the Spirit to exegete the OT the way Paul or Peter or John or James did. Here comes a shocker, I do it (or try to do it) all the time!

    rsc
     
  7. beej6

    beej6 Puritan Board Sophomore

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    But it sure helps ;)
    Actually, I would disagree with you, Professor Clark. Any correct exegesis or application requires the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Or am I missing something?
     
  8. Peter

    Peter Puritan Board Junior

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
     
  9. WrittenFromUtopia

    WrittenFromUtopia Puritan Board Graduate

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    Jesus wrote the Psalms. The Lord God commanded us to sing His praises, to sing His psalms with melody in our heart and to worship with the fruit of our lips as a sacrifice of praise. It is clear we are commanded to sing the Psalms. If they seem "offensive" to you, that is something you should remedy through prayer and meditation on God's Word as your standard of morality, not culture, intuition, emotional appeals, etc. God's standard of justice/righteousness is obviously on a different level of understanding than our own, so we must be in submission to Scripture, not what we think is right or wrong. I don't believe Jesus is "offended" we don't say "Jesus" when singing the Psalms, for several reasons. For example, "Jesus" is the name of one of the subsistencies of the Godhead. There is no need to isolate one or act as if God is Three and not One. To do otherwise seems akin to Unitarianism, pragmatically speaking -- just my opinion, though. I could be off-base or making a bad conclusion. Also, Jesus Christ as the Son of God is our Mediator for all things that have to do with our relationship to God the Father. Therefore, it is only fitting that our worship to the Lord be mediated through Jesus Christ. In this case, we sing the songs that Jesus Christ Himself wrote. David, although he did not author every Psalm, oversaw the composition of the worship of the Israelites, and was involved in every step of the process and implementation of worship to God. As a type of Christ, it should be clear to us that Jesus Himself was overseeing the composition of the Psalter and the worship that is to be directed to Himself through us, as His true instruments of praise. There are other reasons, but that's all I care to mention, as this has been discussed at least 345 times on this board, and in detail. The Westminster Standards are a good place to start, if you want more info on singing the psalms alone with grace in the heart.
     
  10. Kaalvenist

    Kaalvenist Puritan Board Sophomore

    Psalms and the Name \"Jesus\" and Other Various Topics Discussed Multiple Times :)

    Inspiration is not illumination. Both are the work of the Holy Spirit; but we presently experience illumination (your term), not inspiration (Dr. Clark's term).

    And I would kindly ask that all other questions on the practice of exclusive psalmody get put into another thread. As the title indicates, Andrew began and has continued posting on this thread in order to set before us "Rules to be Observed in Singing of Psalms," from a number of excellent sources. I think that those who are taking this thread as an opportunity to argue against exclusive psalmody are missing the main points, i.e. (1.) Psalms are supposed to be sung, and (2.) We ought to sing them in a right manner. This thread assumes the first point, without addressing the question of their exclusive use, and is presenting numerous articles and excerpts from past luminaries explaining how to go about the second point.

    Thank you, Andrew, for an excellent thread on an excellent subject. Would anyone care to make comments on any of Andrew's quotes from the past, or make similar contributions?
     
  11. Kaalvenist

    Kaalvenist Puritan Board Sophomore

    The Bible commands to sing Psalms. The Bible does not command to sing any other songs. Ergo, we are to sing only Psalms.

    Based upon that question, how would you defend reading the Psalms? And if we should read them, why should we not sing them?

    1. This is, as I said before, an emotional appeal, and not based upon Scripture or reason.

    2. Not every verse in the Bible mentions Jesus by name. Does this mean that we should not read the whole Bible?

    3. I confess that our worship should be about Jesus. When we sing the Psalms, we should do so recognizing them to peculiarly be "the word of Christ" (Col. 3:16), and should sing them in praise to Christ as God. Just because the word "Jesus" does not appear in our songs does not mean that our "worship neglects Jesus."
     
  12. Philip A

    Philip A Puritan Board Sophomore

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