[moderator tone on] Firstly, let's not allow this thread to get into a defensive, overly-sensitive, mud-slinging, ad hominemeric debate. If you're "tired" of seeing this discussed, don't read the thread. Stay out. If you're "miffed" with someone, please u2u them, as opposed to making it personal in the thread. If you have nothing of critical value to say, or if it's just sarcasm, please refrain from posting. Thanks [moderator tone off] Back in September of 2004, Patrick said this: I would like to see this rehashed with the ideal of coming to an agreement, which may not happen, but it would be nice to discuss these things in the realm of Christian brotherhood and unity. I think we should begin with this particular request of Patrick: What do you folks (that is, ones who are interested in being better honed in the subject) think?