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*covers head*
Does anybody know the statistical number of Psalm only singing churches that are out there in the world???
Just Curious to see how far we have decline in the church of God!
so - just curious...you want to validate your perfect righteousness by this legalistic standard?
Do you consider non-EP heresy?
Would you deny fellowship to someone not EP?
Given what you said about non-EP breaking the second commandment (ie., being sin), I was a little surprised when you then wrote that you 'might not' (instead of would not) sing those hymns. To me, saying you 'might not' sing the hymns leaves open the possibility that you 'might' sing the hymns. It wasn't intended, but to me it'd be like saying "if I go to that church, I might not sin by singing those hymns...but I might".As for if I think Non-EP is heresy.. No, but I find it to be a serious error and braking the second commandment of God.
<snip>
But I would go to a church if it had say the Trinity Hymnal, though I might not sing those hymns.
That was rudish!
Why does everyone who find something more conservative then their own belief have to define it as legalistic?
It also became a curiousity question for me of how far the churches have declined......
[...]
This is a presupposition and includes the conclusion that non-EP is somehow inferior to EP - I hope you can see how that might be non-irenic.
God commands the singing of Psalms. The over whelming majority of Christian churches in America do not sing the Psalms at all. The Reformed tradition is a little more obedient.
This is, indeed, a "decline in the church of God" as Michael originally stated. I would not understand if anyone on this board would disagree. God commands his church to sing the Psalms; his church refuses to obey; this is rebellious sin.
Do I err?
The proposition was "Psalm only" - see the OP.
I see your point - you're objecting to the OP's plasm's only. I'm gonna leave that alone for now.
Putting the EP issue aside, you would agree that the non-singing of the Psalms is rebellious sin correct?
yup - and I am chief of sinners...always seeking to repent and reform.
I hope you understand that my response was tied to the tone of your OP.
This is a presupposition and includes the conclusion that non-EP is somehow inferior to EP - I hope you can see how that might be non-irenic.
Given what you said about non-EP breaking the second commandment (ie., being sin), I was a little surprised when you then wrote that you 'might not' (instead of would not) sing those hymns. To me, saying you 'might not' sing the hymns leaves open the possibility that you 'might' sing the hymns. It wasn't intended, but to me it'd be like saying "if I go to that church, I might not sin by singing those hymns...but I might".
As far as I am concerned, there was no tone in my OP! I asked a question without in my opinion tone, sarcasm, etc...
I would hope and pray that you would consider God's Words more superior to mans words? Hence singing Psalms (God's Holy Word) is more superior to any man-made song, hence inferior. There is no presupposition about it. God's Word is Superior in everyway!!! I would rather Sing the only words that are perfect in everyway and non-flawed then sing thousand hymns with imperfect words made by man....
Michael
thunaer and modified a bit by JD to make a point said:... pray the only words that are perfect in everyway and non-flawed then (sic) pray a thousand prayers with imperfect words made by man....
P.S. I am not sure what the whole Pot/Kettle thing was about. It sure flew over my head. I believe the correct use of the Pot/Kettle would be to say that someone is wrong for singing Man-made Songs even if I sing Man-made songs in worship (Corporate, Family, or Private), hence calling the the pot and the kettle black....
GotchaWhat I meant by that statement is that there is a number of Hymns in the Trinity Hymnal that are Psalms or even bad paraphrasing of the Psalms and I could in conscious sing those which is why I said "might", I could not sing those non psalm songs in good conscious.....
Michael
So - following your logic - I suppose you will henceforth only pray Scripture?
Wouldn't you rather:
pray the only words that are perfect in everyway and non-flawed then (sic) pray a thousand prayers with imperfect words made by man....
The logic does not follow.... God has given us a book of Songs to sing which contains every possible emotion that we can express in worship, joy, sadness, lamentations, praise, etc There is nothing lacking in the book of Psalms that would require additions... In fact it contains every doctrine we have in the new testament also testifing that the Psalms are perfect to sing exclusively...
God has not given us a book of prayers (per say), and in addition we must be allowed to address to our Father particular needs when we bring him supplications and so prayer need not be so set.. I do not have a problem with set prayers in certain matters but certain particular needs must be prayed for. Now early in this post I said "God has not given us a book of prayers (Per say), But many of the Psalms are set prayers and can be used that way and in addition I believe that most of our prayers should be Infused with scriptural language and the best place for that would be from the book of Psalms though not exclusively from that book.. God has told us to sing Psalms and so we are confined to that book for singing, but he has not told us to pray exclusively from the psalms. So when I say that our prayers should be infused with scriptural language they can be infused with any portion of scripture.
Again - following your logic - if the Psalms are so perfect in terms of doctrine and emotion and they were used extensively by Christ and the writers of the NT - why infect your prayers with your worldly content? or in terms of Scriptural prayer - isn't the Lord's prayer sufficient?
You are also presupposing the meaning of "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" as definitively and exclusively the Psalms of David. Please give your rationale.
*****Agreed. The moderators are in a no nonsense mood today. This thread was on the above topic. Folks can start other threads for the umteenth time on some aspect of the EP question (see here on mixed modes of worship for one) but I would suggest getting to this topic and not go over old ground yet another time. But if you must; do so under a thread appropriately titled.******So... the statistic of how many churches hold to EP... have we a number?
we are not told to do that with the Psalms....
- oops, just saw the mod note - I am done - Michael - feel free to extract these posts to start another thread if so desired.
Does anybody know the statistical number of Psalm only singing churches that are out there in the world???
Just Curious to see how far we have decline in the church of God!