Protestant Reformed Churches & Homeschooling

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Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
You're assuming that all of these families have two parents in a stable home that have all of the benefits of home schooling available to them... My intent was certaintly not to argue about the benefits of a home school education. We home schooled each of our three kids for 5 years and I would be the first to agree with the blessing that it was for our entire family. My point is that whether a family chooses to home-school, place their kids in a church sponsored Co-op educational curricullum, pay for a private Chrstian education, or even have to utilize public education; that factor alone should not be used to determine whether they are capable or qualified to serve in a church office. BTW, I have read many of the referrences you sited... Good reads. I don't think you're being "preachy", I just think you missed my point...

Ok sorry, I did miss your point. I do think that hard cases such as the ones you cited ought to have the church fund private Christian education. My point is, is that public schools should be out of the question. Some people may not agree with this strong stance but it is based on my research and I believe that I am only expounding on what I find is the Biblical view of this subject.

Your point that the church should fund Christian education is well taken. Too often this necessary aspect is absent when the call for all Christians to abandon public schools is issued. It ignores the single mothers and others whose situation precludes home schooling or paying for private school.
 

Virginia Marine

Puritan Board Freshman
Ok sorry, I did miss your point. I do think that hard cases such as the ones you cited ought to have the church fund private Christian education. My point is, is that public schools should be out of the question. Some people may not agree with this strong stance but it is based on my research and I believe that I am only expounding on what I find is the Biblical view of this subject.[/QUOTE]

Again, I agree fundamentally with your stance. However, remember just because a church "should" fund a private Christian education, doesn't mean they always (or even most of the time...) do...
 

Answerman

Puritan Board Sophomore
Just one more point of clarification. I do not think all Christian education should be funded by the church just the hard cases. The ideal situation would be that our income would not be taxed for the purpose of education in the first place. This was probably the single most serious error that the church in this country made was to find public funded education acceptable. It started us down the road to be further enslaved by evil people. I pray for the day when we the church is looked to for the education of even the unbelievers in society because of its obvious superior job at producing the best in all the fields in education. In other words,, I pray for a revival of the concept known as Christendom.
 

staythecourse

Puritan Board Junior
This was probably the single most serious error that the church in this country made was to find public funded education acceptable.

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's" Although I do not claim to understand Christ's reasoning here since the money was going to an evil regime whose taxes bought the nails and wood for his cross, I still say let the government do what it believes is best, taxing us Christians for their own worthless schemes.

It started us down the road to be further enslaved by evil people. I pray for the day when we the church is looked to for the education of even the unbelievers in society because of its obvious superior job at producing the best in all the fields in education. In other words,, I pray for a revival of the concept known as Christendom.

Since I am not amill, I believe this will happen during the millenial reign. I look forward to that day, too.
 

calgal

Puritan Board Graduate
One of the interesting things about defending home-schooling or other private-schooling is the double standard the statists use. They want to insist upon forms of credentialism by the private competition, but they would never agree to even a nominal $50 fine for educational neglect by private or public educators.

:rolleyes: So you do not accept any schooling but home schooling? A little dose of reality. The homeschool option is not available to all families or most families. A family who has a limited educational background or who lacks the ability to be a one income family where Dad works one job and is home by 5 (In other words, daddy barely finished high school and never learned a trade). Then there are the families where dad or mom has a long term expensive severe illness (MS, MD, ALS, Cancer) where the life sustaining treatments and medications mean the healthier spouse is required to work in order to have some decent medical insurance and keep the family fed, clothed and housed. And of course there are downsized families where daddy lost his job and single parents for whatever reason (divorce, widowers and widows...). Christian schools often will offer these families scholarships or there may be a church education fund.

The church can NOT afford to take care of these families long term so they can have the LUXURY of homeschooling. Nor SHOULD the church do so: if mom has to work at a retail or food service job for a while, then do it to the Glory of God. If the kids are in a public school, surely you can trust your teachings and your children enough to have them "in the world" for a time. If not then you have a bigger problem than "statists."
 

MOSES

Puritan Board Freshman
This was probably the single most serious error that the church in this country made was to find public funded education acceptable.

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's"

Education does not belong to Caesar.

Especially for the covenant people of God. God has specific commands for the education of his children. . . And it ain't under the authority of Caesar!

Note: The pagan god "Molech" was a "caesar" (sort of speak) in ancient Israel. His name meant King..he was the head of the STATE...he was, in essence the STATE...he, as head and king, commanded that the Israelites give them their children.
God forbid this practice and called it an abomination.
 

MOSES

Puritan Board Freshman
One of the interesting things about defending home-schooling or other private-schooling is the double standard the statists use. They want to insist upon forms of credentialism by the private competition, but they would never agree to even a nominal $50 fine for educational neglect by private or public educators.

:rolleyes: So you do not accept any schooling but home schooling? A little dose of reality. The homeschool option is not available to all families or most families. A family who has a limited educational background or who lacks the ability to be a one income family where Dad works one job and is home by 5 (In other words, daddy barely finished high school and never learned a trade). Then there are the families where dad or mom has a long term expensive severe illness (MS, MD, ALS, Cancer) where the life sustaining treatments and medications mean the healthier spouse is required to work in order to have some decent medical insurance and keep the family fed, clothed and housed. And of course there are downsized families where daddy lost his job and single parents for whatever reason (divorce, widowers and widows...). Christian schools often will offer these families scholarships or there may be a church education fund.

The church can NOT afford to take care of these families long term so they can have the LUXURY of homeschooling. Nor SHOULD the church do so: if mom has to work at a retail or food service job for a while, then do it to the Glory of God. If the kids are in a public school, surely you can trust your teachings and your children enough to have them "in the world" for a time. If not then you have a bigger problem than "statists."


Could we then argue, by way of PRAGMATISM, that a single mom, who is a prostitute, can still continue to be a prostitute after becoming a Christian because that is her only option to earn a living.
Should this prostitute be allowed to be a member of a church, even though she continues in prostitution because that is her only way to earn a living and she has to do it to get by?

All these pragmatic "have to's" are irrelevant to the law of God.
 
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LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
:rolleyes: So you do not accept any schooling but home schooling? A little dose of reality. The homeschool option is not available to all families or most families. A family who has a limited educational background or who lacks the ability to be a one income family where Dad works one job and is home by 5 (In other words, daddy barely finished high school and never learned a trade). Then there are the families where dad or mom has a long term expensive severe illness (MS, MD, ALS, Cancer) where the life sustaining treatments and medications mean the healthier spouse is required to work in order to have some decent medical insurance and keep the family fed, clothed and housed. And of course there are downsized families where daddy lost his job and single parents for whatever reason (divorce, widowers and widows...).

A dose of reality...we've been in a couple of these situations and we've still managed to homeschool. I also know a woman with a husband that lost his job, ended up in jail, she's on disability (legitimately), has two autistic children, and receives no educational assistance from a church...she homeschools her children. I could list case after hard-luck case that has managed to homeschool under extreme circumstance one way or another. Some with support of family and church and some without any outside support.
 

MOSES

Puritan Board Freshman
A dose of reality...we've been in a couple of these situations and we've still managed to homeschool. I also know a woman with a husband that lost his job, ended up in jail, she's on disability (legitimately), has two autistic children, and receives no educational assistance from a church...she homeschools her children. I could list case after hard-luck case that has managed to homeschool under extreme circumstance one way or another. Some with support of family and church and some without any outside support.

Sounds like that woman is picking up her cross and doing what she has to do...Praise God. She is relying on the King of Kings, and not on the false gods of the state.
 

Reformed Covenanter

Cancelled Commissioner
A dose of reality...we've been in a couple of these situations and we've still managed to homeschool. I also know a woman with a husband that lost his job, ended up in jail, she's on disability (legitimately), has two autistic children, and receives no educational assistance from a church...she homeschools her children. I could list case after hard-luck case that has managed to homeschool under extreme circumstance one way or another. Some with support of family and church and some without any outside support.

Sounds like that woman is picking up her cross and doing what she has to do...Praise God. She is relying on the King of Kings, and not on the false gods of the state.

:amen: "Put not your trust in princes".
 

satz

Puritan Board Senior
A dose of reality...we've been in a couple of these situations and we've still managed to homeschool. I also know a woman with a husband that lost his job, ended up in jail, she's on disability (legitimately), has two autistic children, and receives no educational assistance from a church...she homeschools her children. I could list case after hard-luck case that has managed to homeschool under extreme circumstance one way or another. Some with support of family and church and some without any outside support.

Sounds like that woman is picking up her cross and doing what she has to do...Praise God. She is relying on the King of Kings, and not on the false gods of the state.

But God's law commands parents to bring up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, it says nothing about homeschooling per se.

At present I see insufficient bible evidence to indicate it is sinful for a christian couple, or single parent to not homeschool if they are under significant pressure. They might chose to homeschool and undergo the financial hardships that come with that, or they might chose not to homeschool and work harder as parents to make sure their children are still brought up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord despite the school they may go to.

Going back to the example of Daniel, Daniel knew where to draw the line and what was sin - he would not eat the king's food. However, he was willing to attend Nebuchenezzar's pagan school and did not see such mere attendance as sin.
 

satz

Puritan Board Senior
:rolleyes: So you do not accept any schooling but home schooling? A little dose of reality. The homeschool option is not available to all families or most families. A family who has a limited educational background or who lacks the ability to be a one income family where Dad works one job and is home by 5 (In other words, daddy barely finished high school and never learned a trade). Then there are the families where dad or mom has a long term expensive severe illness (MS, MD, ALS, Cancer) where the life sustaining treatments and medications mean the healthier spouse is required to work in order to have some decent medical insurance and keep the family fed, clothed and housed. And of course there are downsized families where daddy lost his job and single parents for whatever reason (divorce, widowers and widows...).

A dose of reality...we've been in a couple of these situations and we've still managed to homeschool. I also know a woman with a husband that lost his job, ended up in jail, she's on disability (legitimately), has two autistic children, and receives no educational assistance from a church...she homeschools her children. I could list case after hard-luck case that has managed to homeschool under extreme circumstance one way or another. Some with support of family and church and some without any outside support.

By the way it is not my intention to make light of the obvious sacrifices and hardships this woman must have gone through. I am sure God honors and is pleased with her faith. However without a bible command to homeschool I do not think examples like these can be used to prove that christians who make a different choice, even if it is 'easier', are in sin.
 

staythecourse

Puritan Board Junior
Just got back from a Home School Consortium Grad Ceremony

Full scholarship, Full Scholarship, Full scholarship,

Out of 34 grads they got $1.6 million in scholarships. That's $47,000 a pc. average.

The family and friends packed the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Chapel (my guess is 4,000 people give or take 500)

You had the worldly (one grad chose Pink Floyd's "Money" as his theme song, and a young woman chose Lauper's "Girls just Wanna Have fun".) The only tune I recognized as somewhat Christ-honoring was "Like a Rose"

Most of the girls were going on to higher education. A couple wanted to be missionaries. One young man wanted to go to Boyce (the undergrad program at Southern) Several drama and art majors which surprised me guys and gals both. One guy had an earing. The girls were beautiful and the guys still gangly for the most part. The young man I knew was aiming for Marines and Law.

I'd say a smattering of Christianity as opposed to an overwhelming awe of Christianity. Jesus was honored in speech much more than a secular school could/would have.

An Arminian (from Southeast Baptist the megachurch) gave the message in which he said he heard from God (as he held his child and prayed for him as a tot)

So, highly educated kids no doubt. Full of themselves (as we all were as teens) and a meager "home" emphasis for the women (though one said she was looking forward to being a soccer mom. She seemed the most "healthy?" I guess in her outlook on life. Mature and joyful.)

The gentleman who is an apparent genius in the class is going into politics.

A nice touch was that the administrator of the consortium gave the diploma to the parents who gave it to their child.

That was a mind-dump and apropos for the thread.
 
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MOSES

Puritan Board Freshman
By the way it is not my intention to make light of the obvious sacrifices and hardships this woman must have gone through. I am sure God honors and is pleased with her faith. However without a bible command to homeschool I do not think examples like these can be used to prove that christians who make a different choice, even if it is 'easier', are in sin.


AMEN to "without a command" !!!

'Without a command" you do not have to repent and believe the gospel either.

Your post is exactly right in that we are not to command, as the word of God, what the word of God does not command.

My question to you is:
Do you know the word of God so thuroughly, that you know evey command of God, have studied every doctine (i.e., teaching), and you know without a doubt that "covenant education" is not commanded by God in scripture for his "covenant people'?

If I pasted a scripture right now, a clear and precise bible command, would you even believe it?
(yes...I'm sure you would)

My point is:
Just because you have not learned, studied, and seen the commands from scripture concerning "covenant education" does not make "state schooling" ok...

It may take some time to convince a coveteous person that coveting is a sin...but once you realize it, you see it in scripture, you must then obey.

Personally: I am convinced that state schooling covenant children is sin...I have yet to provide an argument for my position on this thread, so I have been responding quite dogmatically. But my argument is sound, biblical, true, and in accordance with the word of God (at least in my mind, that is why I am obedient to it...just as I am obedient to the fact that Jesus is the only savior)

Note: I do not believe that I have advocating home schooling alone on this thread...I do not think I was even propogating homeschooling. (correct me if i am wrong)...my position is devotly anti state schools.

As a matter of FACT state schooling is a communist ideal...not a biblical OPTION for Christians.


The thrust and point of this thread is displayed clearly in the quote from my normal signature line:

Open my eyes Lord, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law. Psalm 119:18

I thank the Lord that he has taught me that state schooling is sin according to his law.
 

calgal

Puritan Board Graduate
back to the OP: if the church decides they want their pastor to send his kids to a Protestant Reformed Church affiliated Christian School as a condition of employment, there is NO Publick Skool involved, why is that a problem? Would it not be reasonable to assume that a PRC parent run school would teach about Jesus? And that as the pastor (or Dominee), the pastor is held to a different standard than some random ordinary family at church: they do live in a fishbowl. The consistory is not necessarially in the wrong in this case.
 

calgal

Puritan Board Graduate
By the way it is not my intention to make light of the obvious sacrifices and hardships this woman must have gone through. I am sure God honors and is pleased with her faith. However without a bible command to homeschool I do not think examples like these can be used to prove that christians who make a different choice, even if it is 'easier', are in sin.


AMEN to "without a command" !!!

'Without a command" you do not have to repent and believe the gospel either.

Your post is exactly right in that we are not to command, as the word of God, what the word of God does not command.

My question to you is:
Do you know the word of God so thuroughly, that you know evey command of God, have studied every doctine (i.e., teaching), and you know without a doubt that "covenant education" is not commanded by God in scripture for his "covenant people'?

If I pasted a scripture right now, a clear and precise bible command, would you even believe it?
(yes...I'm sure you would)

My point is:
Just because you have not learned, studied, and seen the commands from scripture concerning "covenant education" does not make "state schooling" ok...

It may take some time to convince a coveteous person that coveting is a sin...but once you realize it, you see it in scripture, you must then obey.

Personally: I am convinced that state schooling covenant children is sin...I have yet to provide an argument for my position on this thread, so I have been responding quite dogmatically. But my argument is sound, biblical, true, and in accordance with the word of God (at least in my mind, that is why I am obedient to it...just as I am obedient to the fact that Jesus is the only savior)

Note: I do not believe that I have advocating home schooling alone on this thread...I do not think I was even propogating homeschooling. (correct me if i am wrong)...my position is devotly anti state schools.

As a matter of FACT state schooling is a communist ideal...not a biblical OPTION for Christians.


The thrust and point of this thread is displayed clearly in the quote from my normal signature line:

Open my eyes Lord, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law. Psalm 119:18

I thank the Lord that he has taught me that state schooling is sin according to his law.

You have not proven that state schooling is sin. Nor have you proven that Christian Schooling (private faith based school) is sinful. So where do you see a clear mandate to NOT send your kids to state run schools? :worms:
 

MOSES

Puritan Board Freshman
By the way it is not my intention to make light of the obvious sacrifices and hardships this woman must have gone through. I am sure God honors and is pleased with her faith. However without a bible command to homeschool I do not think examples like these can be used to prove that christians who make a different choice, even if it is 'easier', are in sin.


AMEN to "without a command" !!!

'Without a command" you do not have to repent and believe the gospel either.

Your post is exactly right in that we are not to command, as the word of God, what the word of God does not command.

My question to you is:
Do you know the word of God so thuroughly, that you know evey command of God, have studied every doctine (i.e., teaching), and you know without a doubt that "covenant education" is not commanded by God in scripture for his "covenant people'?

If I pasted a scripture right now, a clear and precise bible command, would you even believe it?
(yes...I'm sure you would)

My point is:
Just because you have not learned, studied, and seen the commands from scripture concerning "covenant education" does not make "state schooling" ok...

It may take some time to convince a coveteous person that coveting is a sin...but once you realize it, you see it in scripture, you must then obey.

Personally: I am convinced that state schooling covenant children is sin...I have yet to provide an argument for my position on this thread, so I have been responding quite dogmatically. But my argument is sound, biblical, true, and in accordance with the word of God (at least in my mind, that is why I am obedient to it...just as I am obedient to the fact that Jesus is the only savior)

Note: I do not believe that I have advocating home schooling alone on this thread...I do not think I was even propogating homeschooling. (correct me if i am wrong)...my position is devotly anti state schools.

As a matter of FACT state schooling is a communist ideal...not a biblical OPTION for Christians.


The thrust and point of this thread is displayed clearly in the quote from my normal signature line:

Open my eyes Lord, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law. Psalm 119:18

I thank the Lord that he has taught me that state schooling is sin according to his law.

You have not proven that state schooling is sin. Nor have you proven that Christian Schooling (private faith based school) is sinful. So where do you see a clear mandate to NOT send your kids to state run schools? :worms:


YES I KNOW...I openly admitted that in my last post, and others. I am operating in this forum on the presupposition that it IS SIN.
The same way I operate with an un-believer that there is a God...I don't stoop to the fool's folly, I operate on my own biblical convictions.

But...If I need to prove my conviction...I will.

Is this the thread for such?

I don't think so...but I will start a thread defending the truth of God's law in regards to covenant education.
 

MOSES

Puritan Board Freshman
Please nobody take this the wrong way.

We currently live in a nation/world that we have to prove to others that sin is actually sin. . . .we have so fallen from the word of God that we have to prove elementary truths of the scripture to get someone to even think about the sin which they support.
 

HaigLaw

Puritan Board Sophomore
... Could we then argue, by way of PRAGMATISM, that a single mom, who is a prostitute, can still continue to be a prostitute after becoming a Christian because that is her only option to earn a living.
Should this prostitute be allowed to be a member of a church, even though she continues in prostitution because that is her only way to earn a living and she has to do it to get by?

All these pragmatic "have to's" are irrelevant to the law of God.

Dragging prostitution into this discussion adds nothing to the merit of the argument.

I remember attending a home-school defense hearing back in the 80's where the prosecutor argued -- "what if the black prostitute down the street wants to home-school her kids? We have to draw the line!"

Thankfully, racism and distaste for prostitution did not prejudice my home-school client's case that time, and hopefully never will.

:detective:
 

ModernPuritan?

Puritan Board Freshman
seems as odd to me as those who insist that if children arent home schooled the parents are sinning.

idk. seriously id aggree that homeschooling and private "covenant" schools are better than public 98% of the time. Private schools are expensive. SO unless covenant kids get free tuiton- how are the parents gonna afford?
 

ModernPuritan?

Puritan Board Freshman
i dont adhere to any book of church article, creed, confession, or even calvin simply because my daddy or my pastor told me it was true. I do my best to scrutinize every work of man according to scripture. so far ^ the above hold up extrodinarily well.
but in the end. what matters is not the words of mortal men, but what God says period(.)

so If one can not find a direct command in scripture to send kids to a Christian School. and If one can not find a reasonable, non stretched, forced, or mis applied inference to send them to Christian school then we have NO business mandating that,
 

satz

Puritan Board Senior

My question to you is:
Do you know the word of God so thuroughly, that you know evey command of God, have studied every doctine (i.e., teaching), and you know without a doubt that "covenant education" is not commanded by God in scripture for his "covenant people'?

If I pasted a scripture right now, a clear and precise bible command, would you even believe it?
(yes...I'm sure you would)

My point is:
Just because you have not learned, studied, and seen the commands from scripture concerning "covenant education" does not make "state schooling" ok...

I certainly hope I am not so arrogant as to assume I perfectly understand everything the word of God has to say. I have been wrong on subjects before and had to change my position, and I am sure I will have to do so again in the future.

That said, someone asking me ‘Are you sure….?’ is hardly a reason for me to doubt my position, especially since you declined to provide any bible verses. I have no doubt you will be able to prove the christian’s duty to make sure his or her children are brought up as Christians. I am not so sure you can prove that it is always a sin to use state schools, regardless of the circumstances of the family. I have read some other arguments by Christians on this subject, and am unconvinced.
 

satz

Puritan Board Senior
YES I KNOW...I openly admitted that in my last post, and others. I am operating in this forum on the presupposition that it IS SIN.
The same way I operate with an un-believer that there is a God...I don't stoop to the fool's folly, I operate on my own biblical convictions.

But...If I need to prove my conviction...I will.

Is this the thread for such?

I don't think so...but I will start a thread defending the truth of God's law in regards to covenant education.

Comparing believers on this forum to unbelievers and fools is surely a little harsh when by your own admission you have not supported your position from the bible. If you have not backed up your presupposition from the bible, why exactly is it so wrong to disagree with you?
 
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LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
My example was not dealing with sin/no sin...it was proving that homeschooling is possible in the "impossible" situations that are always dragged up. The "what about" and "what if". I know MANY homeschoolers. Some that have NO highschool diploma, yet children are college bound and doing well. Some with NO college...the same with their children. People who have dealt with layoffs and little to no income...still homeschooling while the husband hits the pavement in search of the next job. IF mom went to work, it was to a job that permitted her to continue teaching the children. Parent's that were widow, parents with spouse's in jail, parents where one is undergoing a multitude of surgeries, through bedrest, etc. IT'S POSSIBLE. Not always easy, but possible. Through some circumstances, homeschooling can make family life more bearable through the circumstance and actually SAVE money.

As to the sin issue...I understand that not everyone is where I'm at on the issue and IRL, I don't sit in judgment of them...however, this is how I view it: would it be sin for me to send my children to a muslim school? (yes, I'm borrowing the question)
 

MOSES

Puritan Board Freshman
Clarification

I never meant to infer that NOT homeschooling your children was a sin. In fact, I don't think I have even been advocating homeschooling only on this thread.

I make no judgment upon anyone for not homeschooling their children ..."Love God and do what you want"

The clarification is this:
I am against STATE SCHOOLING...I am not pro homeschool only...I am anti-state schooling. I am pro covenant education.

Please don't frame me in the box of being one of those "home school fanatics"...:)
Again...I have not even advocated homeschooling only on this thread.
 

Reformed Covenanter

Cancelled Commissioner
State education is sinful as God has not commanded the state to educate children; as the state is God's minister (Rom. 13) it cannot do whatever it wants, but must only do what is consistent with its God-appointed role set down in Scripture.
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
Personally: I am convinced that state schooling covenant children is sin...I have yet to provide an argument for my position on this thread, so I have been responding quite dogmatically. But my argument is sound, biblical, true, and in accordance with the word of God (at least in my mind, that is why I am obedient to it...just as I am obedient to the fact that Jesus is the only savior)

Well then, GET TO IT. You don't come on my board accusing a swath of people, dogmatically, with committing a sin if you cannot provide a positive case in the Scriptures prohibiting public education.

Warning: You had better provide much more than a Biblical injunction that parents are responsible for the education of their children. Responsibility does not preclude the concept that authority can be delegated while maintaining responsibility. You had better do a bang up job of noting that a Covenant education precludes any ability for the State to fund a portion of that education.

Frankly, if you don't, I'll dogmatically censure you for your brash assertions in this thread and I won't back it up with a single Scripture. It will just come with the sweeping click of a mouse and all the delicateness and maturity you've demonstrated thus far.
 
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