Preacher Causes Stir in Perth

[PuritanCovenanter]

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V1_rwtjvOfw[/video]

I posted the following response in a wrong area where some comments were being made and I deleted it since it was in an inappropriate area to comment. Attention to detail Snyder!

While I agree Josh hasn't broken any laws might there be a better way to do this? My Church does this sort of thing on a local bar scene area with success and with the protection of the Police. They use an amplifier and a microphone. They pass out Gospel tracts and my Pastor preaches a sermon during some of the evangelistic endeavor. It is rather peaceful and the shop owners don't protest it.

While many will probably condemn the Police action here, I am not so sure they are incorrect to perform some kind of action.


Here is what I am thinking, maybe in this setting it might be better to walk around and engage the crowd one on one which usually attracts a small gathering and isn't as loud. If someone were to pull up in front of my house and start loudly proclaiming a false Gospel or ranting and raving about some truth they believe is of vital importance I would call the Police and have him removed if I could for disturbing the Peace. Just thinking out loud.

Josh does have a booming voice. I applaud his desire to share Christ. I have done similar things as he is noted for doing here.

Found the video at this report.... http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...e-minister-for-preaching-too-loudly-in-street

 

[Somerset]

Most editions of the British Church Newspaper, published fortnightly, feature the arrest of a street preacher. The Christian Institute does a superb job in providing them with legal help and very few are actually charged, several have won compensation for illegal imprisonment.

There never seems to be any problem for muslim street preachers - curious.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Most editions of the British Church Newspaper, published fortnightly, features the arrest of a street preacher. The Christian Institute does a superb job in providing them with legal help and very few are actually charged, several have won compensation for illegal imprisonment.

The never seem to be any problem for muslim street preachers - curious.

That is some good news. I pray they are effectual in Josh's case.

I didn't know they had Muslim street preachers. That would be very interesting to see and hear. I also suspect that people fear Muslims and don't Christians.

 

[Gesetveemet]

maybe in this setting it might be better to walk around and engage the crowd one on one which usually attracts a small gathering and isn't as loud. If someone were to pull up in front of my house and start loudly proclaiming a false Gospel or ranting and raving about some truth they believe is of vital importance I would call the Police and have him removed if I could for disturbing the Peace. Just thinking out loud.
Josh does have a booming voice. I applaud his desire to share Christ.

I'm not a booming voice on the puritan board but I do agree.

William


.

 

[Pergamum]

Some thoughts:

--If the public space is known for such a thing, then public preaching should be allowed. Places like Hyde Park come to mind (i.e. a set place where it is culturally expected to have public speeches...like in Paul's day).

---It seems that there were usually prepared places for George Whitefield to preach and people would COME to hear him preach instead of merely encountering him because they had to cross him on the street to go home. George Whitefield was invited to preach many times and he went to where people voluntarily gathered; it seems modern-day street preachers do not do this.

--The other aspect is whether street preachers actually succeed in bringing people into churches. Most street preaching is widely divorced from local church ministries. However, in the case of Josh Williamson, it appears he is very tied to his church and that he does this with the full endorsement of his church.

---Another point: Street-preachers sometimes seem to thrive on conflict or provocation. They paint flames on their signs and often focus on the judgment of God rather than the love of God. When they meet opposition, they claim persecution. We must remember that a man of God is supposed to be "gentle" according to the NT.

---Another point: Many street preachers film their outings. Many claim this is for legal protection. Sometimes I wonder if some of them, however, are playing for the camera? I get the feeling sometimes that this is a performance. Especially when they then post their outings on youtube.

---The phrasing of this activity: I prefer to phrase what I do sometimes as "outdoor evangelism" or "out-of-the-church-building" activities. This involves passing out tracts, talking on the streets and speaking to crowds. Often these crowds ask questions (I've even had people say, "Go stand up over there on that log so we can hear you speak better" when answering a crowd one time, since I never carry a soap-box to stand on). However, many "street preachers" want to be known as "street preachers" instead of those who merely do witnessing out-of-doors or do evangelism outdoors.

When we pass out tracts, we take local bible school students with us and instruct them and evangelize alongside of them as well. This is to teach them that their "ministry" must not merely happen inside a church building. Sometimes we have had to talk to several students who were forcing tracts on people and insisting they take the tracts even if the people did not want them. We advised that it would be better only to give to those who desired or put out their hands.



p.s. I am not against public proclamation of the Gospel. I am active in it. However, if I were harangued on the street, I would think twice about how good the Teacher was if the students were impolite. I remember in 2009 coming home from furlough from the mission field and being in another city for the purpose of preaching/presenting at a church. I was "evangelized" very aggressively by a street evangelist. I was confused as to what my response would be. I told him thank you, but he was really sort of annoying to me.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I was thinking the same things you noted Pergy. The Open-Air Preaching of Whitefield came to my mind and the light you shed from that particularly was something I also considered. I am glad you mentioned that. We are on the same page there. Thanks.

 

[Claudiu]

Good thoughts Perg

 

[JML]

I guess I will be the one to disagree with the last few comments. We are talking about souls on a path towards Hell here. Preaching only to those who invite us seems to disregard that. I don't see anything wrong with what Josh did. Also, pointing out what some street preachers have done wrong or abused doesn't apply here in my opinion as we are talking about a doctrinally sound brother. That is kind of like saying that we shouldn't have a church service because of what Joel Osteen is doing.

 

[Pergamum]

We are not talking about whether to evangelize or not. The question is how.

Some street preachers try to make the point that street preaching is THE designated way that God has ordained to spread forth the Gospel. Some defend street preaching as THE way to do evangelism (rather than one of the ways).

Some street preachers don't seem to realize that the Areopolis or public forums or town squares of old where debates and public announcements were expected is a much different context than a crowded urban cross-walk as people rush to work.

If we send the message that "THIS is how it is supposed to be done" or "THIS is REAL street evangelism" then we limit other legitimate means of witness (which may be, in reality, more effective), such as literature witness, tracts, radio/newspaper/signs, personal dialogue, etc.

Also, many street preachers advocate street preaching for its "boldness" and so I believe many young men judge themselves and their evangelistic efforts by this measure of boldness. They want to be bold, and so they street preach. I have seen some who appear to be attracted to this "image" and sometimes do not appear humble. They identify themselves as "street preachers" often rather than evangelists who do street preaching. The activity seems often very closely tied to their identity/psyche.

Also, many critiques of street preaching get the response from street preachers that criticizing street preaching is the same as not being evangelistic. This is not so. One can be very evangelistic without ever preaching on a soap-box on a street corner.

I believe the best means of evangelism will do deeper than what is afforded by the average street-preaching message. I also believe that the goal of evangelism is to do deep discipleship that results in gathered assemblies of new believers. Or, adding new believers into the long-term fellowship of a local church family. Rarely does street preaching get this done. Small groups, discovery bible studies, or methods introducing seekers to existing church families seem more effective in this long-term growth.

--

As far as the specific case of Josh Williamson, I praise God for this brother. He seems very polite in all his evangelistic encounters. If he is merely doing what other salespeople or businesses are publicly doing than the police have no reason to stop him without stopping all others from engaging in those same practices. He is also closely tied to a local church who is supportive of what he is doing. So may the Lord bless and protect this dear brother.

 

[Pergamum]

p.s. much of what I have written above about street-preaching can also be applied to missionaries (i.e.....me, too).

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

We are talking about souls on a path towards Hell here.

I think we understand the urgency here. No one is denying that.

Preaching only to those who invite us seems to disregard that.

I don't think anyone here is saying to do what you are suggesting here. I share Gospel truth with people who don't want to hear it. As I noted above my Church does this and I have participated in this same kind of evangelism.

I don't see anything wrong with what Josh did.

I am not so sure he did anything wrong either. I did consider the differences between Whitefield's Open Air Preaching and that which was viewed in the video. There are differences. I was just wondering if there might be a better way to do this that would get the desired result we want. Note that I mentioned speaking one on one (or approaching a small group first with some questions) and that can usually lead to a crowd. It just seems that there might be other ways to implore others to listen. Handing out tracts and entering into conversation with people is a great way to start things off. I have seen crowds develop that way.


I read a quote today that might be true of this situation or not. "Just because you have a right to do something does not mean that doing it is right." Of course preaching God's word is right. But sometimes the way we do it can be wrong. When I was in the Navy we had a young Airman who constantly hounded his shipmates about the Gospel. He couldn't talk about anything else. He even did it to the neglect of having any empathy for those around him. He turned more people off because of how he performed and how he approached people. When he was chided he just considered it to be persecution when in all reality it was his obtuse attitude of I am right and you are going to Hell if you don't believe me that caused people to mock him and call him names. When approached by his brothers he just thought we were lukewarm Christians persecuting him also.


I don't know enough about Josh or the situation to truly applaud the effort or criticize it. All I have seen is his account on his blog, the article I link to, and the video in that article. So please know that my thoughts on Josh's situation concerning its rightness or inappropriateness are not developed.


As another note let me say how I don't think this situation is comparative to St. Peter's or the Apostles. The Apostles were commanded to never preach anywhere concerning Messiah. That simply is not the case here. There are places that open-air preaching is done and performed with crowds in Perth, Scotland as I have been told. Now if God told Josh to go to that direct spot and preach in that spot only and the Government told him he couldn't do that, well that might be another matter. I am willing to bet if Josh went back to that location and handed out gospel tracts or spoke to people or individual groups without being as loud he wouldn't cause a ruckus either. I truly don't know. That is just a guess.

Also, pointing out what some street preachers have done wrong or abused doesn't apply here in my opinion as we are talking about a doctrinally sound brother. That is kind of like saying that we shouldn't have a church service because of what Joel Osteen is doing.

Doctrinally sound brothers have erred in method and done harm. I have been guilty of it. Being sound in doctrine doesn't mean that our practices are necessarily the best. Also your last statement concerning Olsteen might be hyperbole. I am taking it that way. Even those who hold to great error have some things correct. Everyone ought to go to worship on the Lord's day.

 

[GloriousBoaz]

I just watched it and I think he did the best he could with the situation. Yes there is a time when to know when you are casting pearls to swine and quit wasting your time. But we must consider that "God's word will not return void" and that it is "by the foolishness (not the plausible attractiveness) of preaching that God sees fit to save some" That many are called and few are chosen and one of those few might happen to be walking by at the moment according to God's sovereignty. We need not be obnoxious. But we also must not treat open air preaching like it is an inferior disciple. There were some moments where he could have lower his voice and it would have been something simple that would have dropped the tension level, but we are all learning and it is an art form to some extent, none of us are perfect in our area's of gifting and our disciples and that which is good only comes from God, so don't be so quick to look down on someone because we all have a long way to go. Now if we are talking biblical propriety is their a way to do open air preaching according to the scriptures? Is there a motive and a right heart when doing it? Yes there is, but we aren't all perfect out of the gate and sometimes we have bad days and this shouldn't negate open air preaching as one of God's methods for bringing in His elect, and I would argue that it is probably less like to be the member of the body of Christ called the mouth and more likely to be an unseemly part based on the rejection open air preachers receive, sadly sometimes even from fellow Christians.

Here's a bit longer but a great video of a seasoned open air preacher, notice how Dustin Segers dispels tension and his goal is to interact and not "preach at people" all the time (I quoted that because honestly I don't like it when people say the cliche "we shouldn't preach at people but preach to people" because according to the scriptures sometimes people need to be preached at, but if you can't interact with them and be able to invigorate honest questions and dialog in them then you are missing he mark too). He attacks their golden calf but doesn't set up strawmen golden calves, he explains that football isn't evil in an of itself it is only idolatry when worshiped. See for yourself it is longer than 3 mins though but there is a great example if you have the time to watch. He even explains why he does what he does as it is like buying flowers for his wife which isn't to earn brownie points from her but because he loves her and it is the same why he open air preaches for God. Dustin Segers Super Bowl 2012 Preaching - YouTube

 

[SinnerSavedByChrist]

I guess I will be the one to disagree with the last few comments. We are talking about souls on a path towards Hell here. Preaching only to those who invite us seems to disregard that. I don't see anything wrong with what Josh did. Also, pointing out what some street preachers have done wrong or abused doesn't apply here in my opinion as we are talking about a doctrinally sound brother. That is kind of like saying that we shouldn't have a church service because of what Joel Osteen is doing.

Finally some sense on this thread.

Here is a faithful brother, and a very rare kind, who is "holding back those stumbling to the slaughter" with tender (albeit very loud!) proclamations of God's Holiness, His justice and the impending judgment. Have you not read 2 Corinthians 5? "Knowing the terror of the Lord we persuade men." Consider the gospels: "Repent, or you too will perish" and "YOU BROOD OF VIPERS! Who told you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance" and "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. it is better that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell where: The worm never dies and the fire never quenches."

"There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

Josh must have his faults (since we are all wicked and fleshly). Yet I can do nothing but continue to praise God and thank God for such a faithful brother. Oh that EVERY street corner was filled with gospel-proclamation day and night!!!!

 

[Craig.Scott]

In Scotland the vast majority of people go through there life never ever hearing the Gospel. The only way the Gospel reaches them is through preaching on the street. This is the primitive form of evangelism, and more should be out in the streets In my humble opinion. That being said, others ways such as one on one is to be encourages as well, it should not be either/or but both/and.

I fully support Josh, and the fact is there are political speeches and bands in the city centres that are much louder, yet it is only when the Gospel is preached are the complaints. The folk at Ephesus rioted due to Paul's preaching, and in Scotland the people are complaining. We are by law permitted to preach on the streets. The breach of the peace is really down to what the Americans call hate speech, I'm offended therefore the person is arrested. That is what is going on, there is no breach of the peace, the reality is people are complaining because someone is calling them sinners.

Well, Christ is King and if we are to herald the gospel publicly, and the law gives us permission, we should be out there preaching the Gospel. Because for the majority it is the ONLY time in their lives they will hear the Gospel. People do not come anywhere near church doors in Scotland, this, and other methods, are being used to share the Gospel. Sinners need saving, they do not know, therefore lets send preachers. The idea of nice conversations is wonderful, but we are to preach the Gospel, and if folk are not in churches we will go to them.



In Christ

 

[Alan D. Strange]

May the Lord strengthen, encourage and give wisdom to our dear brother, Josh. I praise God for his zeal.

This business of street preaching is tricky, more so than ever in this day of such wide religious diversity. Much wisdom is needed and I appreciate the insights offered by Perg.

We have a dear brother in the OPC, Pastor Bill Welzien, a wonderful man of God, who's being doing this for some time. Bill labors in Key West, FL, and three days weekly (twice an evening) preaches for twenty minutes in Mallory Square at sunset. Here's a link to his site for any who might like to check it out and see how this faithful servant goes about the important work to which his Lord has called him: Keys Evangelistic Ministries - splash.

Peace,
Alan

 

[Hamalas]

This article is worth chewing on as well: Thoughts on street preaching - Reformation21 Blog

 

[irresistible_grace]

Open-Air Preaching - SermonAudio.com

 

[jwithnell]

If I were to hear someone preaching as Ben's article instructs, I'd likely swing by to offer encouragement. Otherwise, I avoid these guys and find it hard to imagine an unbeliever would listen. I love the statement about not sounding like a minor prophet on a bad morning!

Thanks, Rev. Strange, for mentioning the Key West work. I had forgotten about how God has blessed such a faithful servant in such a difficult environment.

 

[Dieter Schneider]

Open Air Preacher Arrested

Does this kind of thing happen in the US? Click here for [video]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UmKTPHNEc-o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/video].

 

[KMK]

While I agree Josh hasn't broken any laws might there be a better way to do this?

There might be. There might be better ways to do just about everything. But 'paralysis by analysis' is a real danger. I don't know Josh but it appears that he and his church had put some thought into this. Sometimes in ministry you have to leave the 'talking' stage and enter into the 'doing' stage or you never get anything done.

 

[JM]

I'm thankful for evangelists like Josh. Not many Reformed minded fellas are willing to do what he does.

 

[JM]

Just watched the video, their hatred for the mentioning of Jesus Christ was very apparent.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

While I agree Josh hasn't broken any laws might there be a better way to do this?

There might be. There might be better ways to do just about everything. But 'paralysis by analysis' is a real danger. I don't know Josh but it appears that he and his church had put some thought into this. Sometimes in ministry you have to leave the 'talking' stage and enter into the 'doing' stage or you never get anything done.

And I didn't suggest anything that would put anyone in paralysis by analysis. In fact I gave endorsement to doing things that remove paralysis. It takes just as much boldness and interaction might I add. Also note that I have been involved with doing things similar to what Josh is doing. My Church is active every weekend in this kind of endeavor. I have seen good fruit come of it and people become members of our Church and other local Churches due to this work.

 

[KMK]

While I agree Josh hasn't broken any laws might there be a better way to do this?

There might be. There might be better ways to do just about everything. But 'paralysis by analysis' is a real danger. I don't know Josh but it appears that he and his church had put some thought into this. Sometimes in ministry you have to leave the 'talking' stage and enter into the 'doing' stage or you never get anything done.

And I didn't suggest anything that would put anyone in paralysis by analysis. In fact I gave endorsement to doing things that remove paralysis. It takes just as much boldness and interaction might I add. Also note that I have been involved with doing things similar to what Josh is doing. My Church is active every weekend in this kind of endeavor. I have seen good fruit come of it and people become members of our Church and other local Churches due to this work.

I wasn't accusing you of anything, Randy. Sorry if it sounded that way. I was just reflecting on the reality of ministry in general. If the work that I was doing in my ministry was posted on Youtube it would garner much criticism because I am sure that there are many ways it could be done better. The fact that something could be done better is not a reason, in and of itself, to not do it at all.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

2Ti 2:24    And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,2Ti 2:25    In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;2Ti 2:26    And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I am not sure anyone here is saying it shouldn't be done. I do not think everyone in the Church is gifted to do the same work at the same time. I do believe that we all have to grow up and weave our way into learning how to perform in the Spirit. We shouldn't be known as the Frozen Chosen. I have been taught that God is pleased with FAT people. That is a people that are Flexible, Available, and Teachable. We shouldn't be stagnant. It is a good thing to strive to be excellent and learn better ways. We don't need to be unnecessarily prickly or offensive. I am not suggesting that Josh is. I have been doing this sort of work on and off for over 30 years now. I have been run off before only to return with a better method and more accommodating way. Sometimes it is beneficial to seek God and look for an accommodating way to perform. We are to be wise as serpents and gentle as lambs.

 

[Philip]

I'll share my own experience as one already a Christian.

When I was studying in Britain, there was a street where busking and street preaching would happen, and there were two men who regularly preached. One would stand in a doorway and preach, attracting a few curious passers-by, but never more than that. He had a loud voice, but few listened.

The other had a table with tracts, and his approach was to engage people in conversation. He engaged me once or twice and I was struck by his genuine and obvious interest in and love for people, including myself. He asked questions, remembered faces, and genuinely engaged people in a friendly manner. Both approaches have, I think, precedent in Scripture, but my thinking is that the second was far more effective.

 

[Pergamum]

While I agree Josh hasn't broken any laws might there be a better way to do this?

There might be. There might be better ways to do just about everything. But 'paralysis by analysis' is a real danger. I don't know Josh but it appears that he and his church had put some thought into this. Sometimes in ministry you have to leave the 'talking' stage and enter into the 'doing' stage or you never get anything done.

Amen. All methods are either imperfect or executed by imperfect men...therefore, we should act vigorously with the best light that we have available.

As William Secker once said,

"The light of the Gospel is not as the light of the moon to sleep by, but is as the light of the sun - to work by."

 

[Gesetveemet]

I'm thankful for evangelists like Josh. Not many Reformed minded fellas are willing to do what he does.

I think your off here. Are not most of the Baptists on this board Reformed. Or do you mean those other Reformed?

 

[JM]

I'm thankful for evangelists like Josh. Not many Reformed minded fellas are willing to do what he does.

I think your off here. Are not most of the Baptists on this board Reformed. Or do you mean those other Reformed?

I'm not drawing a line between credos and paedos, you are.

 

[MW]

Both approaches have, I think, precedent in Scripture, but my thinking is that the second was far more effective.

From time to time I have had the opportunity to be a part of both, and I also found the conversational to be far more most effective and naturally conducive to peace. It seems to me to be more in accord with a law-governed society which protects the peace of its citizens and recognises the rights of individuals to decide religious issues for themselves.

It is obvious in the Gospels and the Acts that the societies were generally religious in nature and open-air communication of a religious nature was readily accepted. Even here, though, there evidently appears to have been no attempt on the part of our Lord or His servants to speak to those who had no interest in the subject, and opportunity was obviously given for interruptions, objections, questions, and dialogue.

I think we all feel that an unhealthy emphasis on "the rights of man" has brought the western world into a particularly desperate situation at this time. We sense we should be doing SOMETHING, perhaps ANYTHING, to address the problem. Sometimes people just want to be seen to be doing something. Sometimes there is a sense of revivalistic nostalgia in the idea of open-air preaching. One trusts that there is at heart a genuine concern to reach one's fellow-men with the good news. I think where the latter is the motive, there will be an openness to seriously consider the best way to speak to others for the glory of God, the edifying of the body of Christ, and the good of the lost.