PCA resolution on public schools

Status
Not open for further replies.

Scott

Puritan Board Graduate
"So it's not an 'excuse' that some aren't able to afford to homeschool - it's reality."

Kerry: I think you are right. Some options just do not work for some people, as good as they might otherwise be.
 

Myshkin

Puritan Board Freshman
Andrew-

Everything is okay. Misunderstandings are easy on this format of communication. I likewise apologize for any lack of clarity on my part. Feelings of respect are mutual, brother. (Sent you a u2u)

-Allan
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Originally posted by Scott
"So it's not an 'excuse' that some aren't able to afford to homeschool - it's reality."

Kerry: I think you are right. Some options just do not work for some people, as good as they might otherwise be.
Give me a true life example, using someone who REALLY DESIRES to homeschool...(betcha I could find a way for that person...or at least possiblities for them to check out)
 

BlackCalvinist

Puritan Board Senior
I'm here, but really not here - thought i'd share this-

From a blog entry from a Pastor who made his way to my blog via Phil Johnson's:

Brother, thank you for addressing this matter. Having had two children in public, private and home school, I must admit there are no guarantees in any of these situations. My kids have suffered in each circumstance and continue to feel the effects of associations with "less than desirable" friends in all three scenarios. (You say, how can they have less than desirable friends in home school? In a home school association that meets regularly to teach subjects to many homeschoolers in the area.)

Regardless of which school situation works best for any individual family, our lives are never exempt from the snares of a fallen world. But some choices are obviously better than others. Generally speaking, government controlled, atheistic, evolutionary, anti-intelligent design public schools are at least a waste of time, and at worst a breeding ground for insolence and stupidity among young children who are depraved and drawn toward such rebellion anyway. Almost any alternative is a move in the right direction, in the vast majority of cases.

But you also mention the spiritual education of our children. You are absolutely correct that a church cannot be held responsible for this by parents who think it is not primarily their own responsibility to educate their children in spiritual matters. Parents need to see the church SS and youth programs as supplemental at best. The real education must be (and by default, is) done in the home.
 

Authorised

Puritan Board Freshman
The resolution was thought to be too vague, so it was voted down. I think this issue pales in comparison with the recent attacks (through the years) on the Westminster confession from within the PCA; at GA a resolution got voted down (not by a large margin) which would have allowed an elder not only to hold an exception, but also to teach it in conjunction with the confession. To me, this relegates the confession to a place that is for all intents and purposes, worthless.

What bothers me is that there are growing numbers of Elders in the PCA willing to compromise the confession, which is the bond that holds our denomination together.

[Edited on 6-20-2005 by Authorised]
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Kerry, that pastor is correct in that children can turn out whatever way, for whatever reason, whatever the schooling option chosen. We never negated that probability. We have stated that, with active and strongly convicted parents, it may be less likely with homeschooling...but not that homeschoolers are immune.

The issue at hand is "is it the parents responsibility to make sure children have a specifically Christian education?".

The issue of the thread is "is it the church's responsibility to hold the parents accountable for doing so?"

Personally...yes to both of those.
 

Theological Books

Puritan Board Freshman
Nobody is saying sending children to public school is a sin, or that sending your children to a public school is disobedience to raising your children in the fear and admonition of the Lord is equal to, are they?

[Edited on 6-21-2005 by Theological Books]
 

Scott

Puritan Board Graduate
"Give me a true life example, using someone who REALLY DESIRES to homeschool...(betcha I could find a way for that person...or at least possiblities for them to check out)."

Colleen: Well, one example is the child whose parents don't want to homeschool and, not only that, are abusive. In some circumstances, as bad as public schools can be (and they vary in quality), sometimes it is a better environment than with abusive (drunk, etc.) parents. I think Kerry had mentioned something like this.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Originally posted by Scott
"Give me a true life example, using someone who REALLY DESIRES to homeschool...(betcha I could find a way for that person...or at least possiblities for them to check out)."

Colleen: Well, one example is the child whose parents don't want to homeschool and, not only that, are abusive. In some circumstances, as bad as public schools can be (and they vary in quality), sometimes it is a better environment than with abusive (drunk, etc.) parents. I think Kerry had mentioned something like this.
Then you didn't read my post to Kerry where I stated almost the exact same thing you just did. I understand (more than you know, in fact first hand) that going to school can be an escape for these kids. Due to that I would like to see affordable (or free) options for these kids. If we can set up cheap, but quality schools for kids overseas...I know we can do it here. In fact I believe one woman in North St Louis has done so for some kids there. But again...this is NOT the point of the thread...we are talking about the responsibilities of a CHRISTIAN PARENT. You all are trying to split the issue...and I've already offered suggestions for the church to address this issue and yet ppl keep making excuses even there rather than taking up the challenge...I dare any teachers amoung you to get with your church and start a mission school.

And, no, that is NOT an example...I'm looking for an example of a PARENT who desires to homeschool their children but think they can't. A real life one, not one created out of your imagination or a possibility.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Originally posted by Theological Books
Nobody is saying sending children to public school is a sin, or that sending your children to a public school is disobedience to raising your children in the fear and admonition of the Lord is equal to, are they?

[Edited on 6-21-2005 by Theological Books]
Yes, I am...and no, that is not an attack towards anyone who ps's their kids. I am accountable for my actions, they are accountable for their. And we are supposed to be held accountable by the church.

here's some quotes I found:

1) One on one education by someone who deeply cares for your child.

4) Avoidance of state-sponsored evolutionary teaching, which does not come from God, but the devil.

5) Avoidance of poor peer influences which can lead to rebelliousness in your child. The Bible says that bad company corrupts good character.

8) Opportunity to forge lasting deep relationships with your children beyond what you have now!

9) Avoidance of state socialistic pressures, like mandatory vaccinations. (the reason I left this one in here is because we are supposed to protect our children...some of these vacs harm children...others are cultured in aborted fetal tissue, I'm not injecting someone's idolotrous sacrifice into the body of my child).

10) Your child will learn to grow into a Godly adult by exposure to Godly adults like you and those in your homeschool co-op group.

11) Freedom to teach the Bible, biblical principles, and to pray in school.

14) Avoidance of school violence, temptation to engage in sexual activity, temptation to use drugs, and peer influences to disrespect authority figures.

here's another:

Biblical Reasons to Homeschool

Offered here are just a handful of verses from God's word which apply to raising, training, and educating children. There are hundreds of reasons to reject the usage of the government education system, including social, moral, academic, ethical, political, and "religious" reasons. For a Christian, especially a Christian who values the authority of Scripture, God's own words on the matter should settle the issue. So here we attempt to explain a conviction we have through the only objective way possible: Holy Scripture.

-Brandon and Rebekah Staggs

God gave you children as a steward and gave you the authority over them:

Psalms 127:3-5 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward. As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Genesis 33:5 And he lifted up his eyes, and saw the women and the children; and said, Who are those with thee? And he said, The children which God hath graciously given thy servant.

Genesis 48:8-9 And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these? And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.

Isaiah 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Hebrews 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

On rendering to GOD'S what is GOD'S:

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

(People tend to ignore the latter portion of the verse. Our kids are not Caesar's!) Children belong to God:

Ezekiel 16:20-21 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

God's commandments to us regarding our stewardship of the children He has given us include:

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Does sending your child to a secular school fulfill your obligation to bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, or does it work against doing so?

Deuteronomy 6:6-9 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Above is a Mosaic example of a general precept: that we must always be teaching our kids God's word. Can sending children to public school somehow qualify as teaching them when they sit, walk, lie down, rise up, etc -- how does doing so qualify as diligence? God clearly wants us to make our children THINK like followers of Him -- how can sending your kid to a place that they learn, among other things, how to think in a secular manner not be disobedient to this? At the very least, it would qualify as shooting yourself in the foot, would it not? See also Psalm 78, Exodus 13:8,14, etc)

Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

How someone thinks in their heart is what makes them. How do kids learn to think of the world, of God and His creation, in school?

More regarding thoughts:

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Does this happen in school? Does the school teach your child to take EVERYTHING in consideration with God's precepts? If you send your kid to school for 30 hours a week before they are even fully aware of a Christian worldview and spiritual warfare, how can they possibly be taking every thought into captivity? Does sending your kid to school work for or against this goal?

Isaiah 54:13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

Let's see -- does sending your kid to a heathen school go for or against the precept of "learn not the way of the heathen?" When your kid goes to school -- any school! -- do they not learn heathen ways? I know I did!

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

A kid's mind is trained in school. Can school help or hinder your child from loving God with all of their MIND when they teach their MIND to ignore God? Does this help or hinder your goal?

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Is sending your child to a heathen school helpful or damaging to making them NOT conform to this world? And is having a "normal" kid who acts like other "normal" heathen kids really a Biblical goal?

Here is a no-brainer:

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Does a heathen school offer this kind of training? If you are trying to train your child in "the way he should go," does sending him to heathens and putting your child under heathen educational authority help or hinder your efforts to train him in the way he should go?

On "missionary schooling:"

1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Would God rather you sacrifice your child to a heathen system in the hopes of converting lost schoolchildren, or would He rather you obey His commands concerning the training of your child?

Proverbs 13:20 He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.

I'll give you two guesses: is a heathen school filled with heathen children acting like heathen animals a place where your child will walk with wise men or find companionship with fools?

And if you do manage to impart good morals to your child before you send them off to school in the morning, what will happen when they get there?

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

That's communications as in "community." Is it a good idea to put your child in that situation?

James 3:13-18 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

This [contrary to truth] wisdom is from.... where? Is it in keeping with your stewardship of the child God gave you to put them in training where they get only earthly wisdom?

So what does the Lord think of those who give harm to (offend) children?

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Does sending your child to a heathen educational system harm or help your child -- in the things that matter to God?

Psalms 119:97-104 MEM. O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me. I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts. I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word. I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me. How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
 

rmwilliamsjr

Puritan Board Freshman
i've read the previous message a dozen times, and started and discarded replies an equal number of times. i am not really interested in arguing the issues here, but i would like to point out a logical fallacy that is so commonly made that it now seems true.

Avoidance of state-sponsored evolutionary teaching, which does not come from God, but the devil.
Avoidance of state socialistic pressures, like mandatory vaccinations.

This is the logical error of composition. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/composition.html for example)
what is happening is that conservative Christians, who are orthodox because of their stance on the authority, inspiration, and unity of the Scriptures also tend to be conservative political, culturally, socially, economically etc etc.

The problem is that the conservative program/package/worldview is not itself Scriptural. There may be pieces that are, but on the whole it is not. Nor should we expect it to be, it is not a theology, but a social viewpoint. But since we tend to filter things we heard through our interpretative grid, of which this viewpoint is a crucial part, we let in things that are consistent with the grid but are not part of our basic theology.

The sad part to me, is that issues like the two i quoted above are never looked at carefully but are just added to the pile and believed since they seem so consistent with the worldview. We need better theological filters and better logical reasoning abilities, hooking these elements without examination into our Christian worldviews will not help the discussion at all.

for they both are simply not true.
evolution =/=atheism
vaccinations have nothing to do with socialism
both statements are fundamentally guilt by association and name calling fallacies.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html

....

[Edited on 6-21-2005 by rmwilliamsjr]
 

lwadkins

Puritan Board Junior
A simple way to see which system is prefered:
Let parents keep their tax monies and use it to educate their children as they would (Christian School, Homeschool, Public, Private) and see where the majority of people place their children. Of course the government will never allow this as it detracts from their abiblity to teach children not to think, but to blindly follow government dictates. This is not freedom but tyrany. Also the Public School system has become a political institution used to garner power for a specific political ideology. In public schools indoctrination not education is the order of the day. And yes this is generalization and not universaly true, but it is by far generally truy.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
"Avoidance of state-sponsored evolutionary teaching"

This is a theological view...not a social one.

"Avoidance of state socialistic pressures, like mandatory vaccinations"

This is due to religious conviction...not social preference.


"evolution =/=atheism"

no, but it is still wrong and affects other areas of ones beliefs.

"vaccinations have nothing to do with socialism"

This "socialistic" could be read more than one way. Socialistic, basically meaning, one size fits all and EVERYONE HAS to do it regardless of religious, moral, or medical reasoning...hey are requiring something that we aren't willing to participate in therefore automatically negating their system as an educational option.



[Edited on 6-21-2005 by LadyFlynt]
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Originally posted by lwadkins
A simple way to see which system is prefered:
Let parents keep their tax monies and use it to educate their children as they would (Christian School, Homeschool, Public, Private) and see where the majority of people place their children. Of course the government will never allow this as it detracts from their abiblity to teach children not to think, but to blindly follow government dictates. This is not freedom but tyrany. Also the Public School system has become a political institution used to garner power for a specific political ideology. In public schools indoctrination not education is the order of the day. And yes this is generalization and not universaly true, but it is by far generally truy.
:ditto:
 

Myshkin

Puritan Board Freshman
I think the dividing line between homeschoolers and non-homeschoolers goes deeper than a pious and simplistic "they are God's children" catchphrase. I think it comes down to Kuyper/presuppositionalism/worldview thinking over and against Augustinian/classical/Two-Kingdoms thinking. (This is a thesis of mine I do not wish to take the time and flesh out here, it is just something I think about from time to time.) But, the point is that I think going to one verse here and there is simplistic and does not advance the discussion anymore than a Dispensational would quote 1 Thess. 1:10 for support of a 7 year earthly tribulation, and then say "see, that settles it!". There are more things involved than just going to scripture. Before being dogmatic and using prooftexts to persuade one another, we should tackle the issue in light of historical practice in the church, what is confessional, and what fits the analogy of faith principle in interpreting scripture.

1)Could we start defining what "christian "education actually is?
2) When God commands parents to raise their kids in the fear and admonition of the Lord does this included 2+2=4, or is it referring to spiritual matters (i.e. prayer, theology, bible knowledge, churchmanship, character in all spheres of life, etc.).
3) hypothetically, if public schools did not indoctrinate a philosophy, a psychology, a worldview, etc., but only taught the facts of each discipline (i.e. 2+2=4, 2 hydrogen molecules + 1 oxygen molecule = water, etc.) would public schools still be "of the devil"? Can a heathen still teach facts about God's creation? Can we learn the alphabet from a non-christian, or does the alphabet have christian only undertones to it?
4)Is it right for christians, in reaction to the secularist agenda of separating the disciplines into contradictory spheres, to overreact and tie up all disciplines into a "christian" education? Shouldn't we distinguish without confusing or separating?
5)If public schools are sinful simply because they are state sponsored, then to be consistent shouldn't we abandon all organizations or groups that are related to the state? (military, police, road construction etc.) Public schools might be wrong for other reasons, but the argument that they are wrong because they are state sponsored seems like we would have to tear Romans 13 out of our bibles.
6)even if we all came to a consensus that public school is wrong, does this mean it should be denominationally legislated or confessionaly mandated?
7)is public school inherently wrong or is it just wrong today seeing what it has become?
8)is the problem really the public schools, or is it the parents neglecting their responsibility before and after school? Are we pointing fingers at the world's sin when we should be pointing fingers at christian parents who neglect their kids before and after school, who reinforce the secualrism of the public schools in their daily lives, who let secularism into church theology and form, and who do not help their fellow church members when providence is "frowning" on them? Is the problem the state schools or is it the Church?

I think answering questions like these will help the discussion, because too often the discussion is held to a superficial level of name-calling, proof-texting, and emotional rhetoric for effect. If we are certain of our views we should not be afraid of allowing them scrutiny. Again, I think this issue is bigger than just homeschool vs. public school. It touches on the areas of monasticism, God's sovereignty, academics vs. spiritual education, vocation, providence, church and state, Romans 13, historical practice, confessional precedent, ethics, Kuyperian neo-calvinism vs. classical calvinism. The homeschool side needs to integrate these issues and more into their argument, instead of just using the pious phrase of "it's a parents responsibility" as if the public school side disagreed with that statement. Much more is involved than parental responsibility. No one is disagreeing with the "that it is", the dispute is over the "how it is to be done". Maybe my diagnostic questions for all of us to answer would shed some light on deeper issues and would cause some more charity in the discussion.

(Moved to Crhoades thread listed below)

[Edited on 6-21-2005 by RAS]
 

crhoades

Puritan Board Graduate
RAS- we're on the same wavelength as to the complexity of the issue. I started a thread over here: http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11626
to try and differentiate some of the matters you brought up (but not all of them - you added some excellent discussion points for sure!). The reason I started another thread on the normativity of education was this one in theory was about the PCA resolution and was dovetailing. (Not to mention, this thread is in the family forum as opposed to the education forum - trying to put it on level turf:bigsmile:)
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
1)Could we start defining what "christian "education actually is?
The raising and training of our children to become active, useful members of society with a scriptural worldview.

2) When God commands parents to raise their kids in the fear and admonition of the Lord does this included 2+2=4, or is it referring to spiritual matters (i.e. prayer, theology, bible knowledge, churchmanship, character in all spheres of life, etc.).
Mainly the latter part, added in the former...the former however can be many time affected by the latter.

3) hypothetically, if public schools did not indoctrinate a philosophy, a psychology, a worldview, etc., but only taught the facts of each discipline (i.e. 2+2=4, 2 hydrogen molecules + 1 oxygen molecule = water, etc.) would public schools still be "of the devil"? Can a heathen still teach facts about God's creation? Can we learn the alphabet from a non-christian, or does the alphabet have christian only undertones to it?
This can't be done. A teacher will ALWAYS instill some of his belief system into his student. Where do you place science? Psychology? History? Are there not worldviews played out when presenting such subjects? Aren't some subjects (like Psychology) based upon a worldview apart from Christ? Can you truely present these in an unbiased manner?

4)Is it right for christians, in reaction to the secularist agenda of separating the disciplines into contradictory spheres, to overreact and tie up all disciplines into a "christian" education? Shouldn't we distinguish without confusing or separating?
I think you state your own worldview when you refer to it as overreacting. It is NOT overreacting to tie up all disciplines and teach them within a scriptural/christian context. How are we "confusing"? How is it wrong to teach about cultures (understanding their worldview) and compare it to our worldview? How is it wrong to teach history and show God's hand in it all? How is is wrong to teach science and show God's wonders?

5)If public schools are sinful simply because they are state sponsored, then to be consistent shouldn't we abandon all organizations or groups that are related to the state? (military, police, road construction etc.) Public schools might be wrong for other reasons, but the argument that they are wrong because they are state sponsored seems like we would have to tear Romans 13 out of our bibles.
Due to the responsibility of teaching and training children is specifically given by God to the parents not the government. The military is ceasar's, not God's. The road construction is ceasar's, not God's. The children are covenanted and are God's.

6)even if we all came to a consensus that public school is wrong, does this mean it should be denominationally legislated or confessionaly mandated?
Do not the ppl on this board believe in ecclesiastical authority? Aren't we to be held accountable to (and justly disciplined if neccessary by) the authorities within our churches?

7)is public school inherently wrong or is it just wrong today seeing what it has become?
Depends...if you are refering to "government" schools...then for a christian, yes. However, public schools started as church schools within the communities. If everyone within the community attended the same church, so did the children attend the same school. If there were two different denominations within the same community and the community was big enough, they had two different schools (ie catholic school and baptist school). However, the schools were offered money by the state...but in exchange that they make changes...until they became state schools.
 

crhoades

Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by RAS
Thanks Chris. Just noticed that. Could we move mine to your thread?
Knock yourself out. I'm not a mod of any sort so you can always do the copy paste and then edit delete...
 

Augusta

Puritan Board Doctor
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
1)Could we start defining what "christian "education actually is?
The raising and training of our children to become active, useful members of society with a scriptural worldview.

2) When God commands parents to raise their kids in the fear and admonition of the Lord does this included 2+2=4, or is it referring to spiritual matters (i.e. prayer, theology, bible knowledge, churchmanship, character in all spheres of life, etc.).
Mainly the latter part, added in the former...the former however can be many time affected by the latter.

3) hypothetically, if public schools did not indoctrinate a philosophy, a psychology, a worldview, etc., but only taught the facts of each discipline (i.e. 2+2=4, 2 hydrogen molecules + 1 oxygen molecule = water, etc.) would public schools still be "of the devil"? Can a heathen still teach facts about God's creation? Can we learn the alphabet from a non-christian, or does the alphabet have christian only undertones to it?
This can't be done. A teacher will ALWAYS instill some of his belief system into his student. Where do you place science? Psychology? History? Are there not worldviews played out when presenting such subjects? Aren't some subjects (like Psychology) based upon a worldview apart from Christ? Can you truely present these in an unbiased manner?

4)Is it right for christians, in reaction to the secularist agenda of separating the disciplines into contradictory spheres, to overreact and tie up all disciplines into a "christian" education? Shouldn't we distinguish without confusing or separating?
I think you state your own worldview when you refer to it as overreacting. It is NOT overreacting to tie up all disciplines and teach them within a scriptural/christian context. How are we "confusing"? How is it wrong to teach about cultures (understanding their worldview) and compare it to our worldview? How is it wrong to teach history and show God's hand in it all? How is is wrong to teach science and show God's wonders?

5)If public schools are sinful simply because they are state sponsored, then to be consistent shouldn't we abandon all organizations or groups that are related to the state? (military, police, road construction etc.) Public schools might be wrong for other reasons, but the argument that they are wrong because they are state sponsored seems like we would have to tear Romans 13 out of our bibles.
Due to the responsibility of teaching and training children is specifically given by God to the parents not the government. The military is ceasar's, not God's. The road construction is ceasar's, not God's. The children are covenanted and are God's.

6)even if we all came to a consensus that public school is wrong, does this mean it should be denominationally legislated or confessionaly mandated?
Do not the ppl on this board believe in ecclesiastical authority? Aren't we to be held accountable to (and justly disciplined if neccessary by) the authorities within our churches?

7)is public school inherently wrong or is it just wrong today seeing what it has become?
Depends...if you are refering to "government" schools...then for a christian, yes. However, public schools started as church schools within the communities. If everyone within the community attended the same church, so did the children attend the same school. If there were two different denominations within the same community and the community was big enough, they had two different schools (ie catholic school and baptist school). However, the schools were offered money by the state...but in exchange that they make changes...until they became state schools.
:ditto:

The earth is the Lord's and everything in it. So everything pertains to the Lord and He pertains to everything. I can't tell you how many times, in teaching my children ALL subjects, that God ends up the topic or how He relates to that topic.
 

Scott

Puritan Board Graduate
"And, no, that is NOT an example...I'm looking for an example of a PARENT who desires to homeschool their children but think they can't. A real life one, not one created out of your imagination or a possibility."

Colleen: Ok, a poor single mother with young children (6 and under) would be an example. Say also that she does not have a church that will provide free education for her child (which would be nearly all churches in the country, conservative or otherwise).
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
To start with (I have a feeling that you made this woman up...therefore refusing to deal with a real situation), there are generally church schools around...has she really checked with them about financial assistance or scholarships? Is she a member of a church? Also, where does the church stand on education? If they aren't pro christian education, then she might be in the wrong church for her and her children.

Only one of her children would need to be educated...in some states, her 6yr is still below mandatory age limits and wouldn't need to worry about schooling them for the next year...she could start teaching her child the basics in the evening....phonics, writing, arithmetic. $30 for the entire year would be the approximate that she would need.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
BTW, one single mom I know that homeschools her young son, and works full time...has her son schooling with another couple's daughters. The situation recently has fizzled, I believe. I think she and another single mom will be taking turns on teaching and taking care of the kids (ie, splitting shifts due to their jobs).
 

pastorway

Puritan Board Senior
The SBC passed their resolution this year!

Resolution No. 1 on Educating Children.

WHEREAS, Children have been entrusted to parents by the Lord and represent our nation's future and our spiritual legacy; and

WHEREAS, God has given parents the responsibility for the upbringing and
education of our children (Proverbs 22:6; Deuteronomy 6:6-7); and

WHEREAS, Many negative influences are attempting to transform the moral
foundation of the culture by reshaping the core values of our children,
undermining historical truth, and promoting promiscuity, violence, and other
immoral behaviors; and

WHEREAS, Children are vulnerable to marketing and entertainment campaigns that redefine truth, morality , and family relationships; and

WHEREAS, Homosexual activists and their allies are devoting substantial
resources and using political power to promote the acceptance among
schoolchildren of homosexuality as a morally legitimate lifestyle; and

WHEREAS, Educational institutions are often an effective gateway to
children's hearts and minds; and

WHEREAS, Parents have access to textbooks, curricula, special programs,
teachers, and other school personnel, giving them tremendous power to effect change in schools; and

WHEREAS, All citizens have the right and responsibility to participate in
local, state, and national elections and to use their influence to effect
change; and

WHEREAS, Involved parents are the ultimate influence in the lives of their
children; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Nashville, Tennessee, June 21-22, 2005, urge parents and churches to research and monitor the entertainment and educational influences on children; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we urge parents and churches to exercise their rights to
investigate diligently the curricula, textbooks, and programs in our
community schools and to demand discontinuation of offensive material and
programs; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we urge our churches to assist and support parents as they investigate community schools and as they train and disciple their own
children; and be it further

RESOLVED, That as citizen Christians we commit to hold accountable schools, institutions, and industries for their moral influence on our children; and be it finally

RESOLVED, That we urge Christian parents to fully embrace their
responsibility to make prayerful and informed decisions regarding where and how they educate their children, whether they choose public, private, or home schooling, to ensure their physical, moral, emotional, and spiritual
well-being, with a goal of raising godly men and women who are thoroughly
equipped to live as fully devoted followers of Christ.
A definite step in the right direction!!

Also read Al Mohler's comments here:
An Exit Strategy

Phillip
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Originally posted by pastorway

A definite step in the right direction!!

Phillip
I "guess". Parents have already been doing this since I was in school and it has never changed anything around here. Sorry, but this "resolution" has really "resolved" anything...and really doesn't take a true stand on anything. Pretty much "business as usual".
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Yes, I'm dragging this sorry old thread up again...wanted to clarify something.

Originally posted by RAS
Until homeschoolers start speaking out for those who are less able than they are, are giving all they can to assist those who can't homeschool for providential reasons, then I will continue to look at the homeschool movement as an ironic elitism.
I'm all for this, Allan...and there ARE homeschoolers out there that are attempting to do what they can and are encouraging others to do the same. There are curriculum companies that are willing to give curriculum away at discount or even for NO COST to those that are truely in need. Doug Phillips has a CD out on where he speaks of assisting single mothers to be able to homeschool their children. There are homeschoolers that help other families be able to homeschool their children (either by babysitting while single mom or dad in the evening or by homeschooling the other person's children themselves by agreement between all parents involved). Some homeschoolers even pass on curriculum that they aren't using to other homeschoolers to help defray costs. Homeschoolers do what they can to help others who wish to homeschool. However, you're right, we can't provide for EVERYBODY. (this doesn't make it elitist however). I know ALOT of homeschoolers who tell of the sacrifices they make in order to homeschool...we make sacrifices ourselves (I could have gone to nursing school and be making more than hubby---I actually had started to take my pre-reqs at one time)...but we chose to sacrifice having the financial extras in order for me to be home with our kids. We make our bills and we cut corners (I love yard sales, thrift stores, and used books).

Please don't refer to us as an elitist club...we come in all sizes and are doing our best to inform others.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top