PCA resolution on public schools

Discussion in 'Family Forum' started by Scott, Jun 15, 2005.

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  1. Scott

    Scott Puritan Board Graduate

    Some of this discussion in various fora tends to revolve around what is allowable, or what is the minimum standard . I think parents would do better if they framed the issue in terms of what is best for the children. In most circumstances (although there may be some), public school would not be the answer.
  2. Arch2k

    Arch2k Puritan Board Graduate

    :ditto: To Andrew's and Colleen's posts!

    Don't forget the great teaching from Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young .........."Teach"¦.your children well."

    It is the duty of the parents to raise their children, not the government, and not even the church. God gives children to parents, not churches or governments. I for one will raise my children from the home, and as for me and MY house...we will serve the Lord.
  3. Arch2k

    Arch2k Puritan Board Graduate

    This is from www.getthekidsout.org

    Principle #1: The education of children and youth is the primary responsibility of parents (Deuteronomy 6:4-9; 11:18-21; Psalm 78;1-7; Psalm 127:3; Proverbs 22:6; Malachi 2:13-16; Ephesians 6:4).

    Principle #2: The education of children and youth is a 24-hour-a-day, 7-days-per-week process that continues from birth till maturity (Deuteronomy 6:7; 11:19; Proverbs 22:6).

    Principle #3: The education of children and youth must have as its primary goals the salvation of and discipleship of the next generation (Psalm 78:6-7; Matthew 28:19-20).

    Principle #4: The education of children and youth must be based on God´s Word as absolute truth (Matthew 24:35; Psalm 119).

    Principle #5: The education of children and youth must hold Christ as preeminent in all of life (Colossians 2:3, 6-10).

    Principle #6: The education of children and youth must not hinder the spiritual and moral development of the next generation (Matthew 18:6; 19:13-14; Mark 10:13-16; Luke 18:15-17).

    Principle #7: The education of children and youth, if and when delegated to others by parents, must be done so with utmost care to ensure that all teachers follow these principles (Exodus 18:21; 1 Samuel 1:27-28; 3:1-10).

    Principle #8: The education of children and youth results in the formation of a belief system or worldview that will be patterned after the belief systems or worldviews of the person´s teachers (Luke 6:40).

    Principle #9: The education of children and youth must lead to true wisdom by connecting all knowledge to a biblical worldview frame of reference (Romans 1:20; Psalm 19:1; Proverbs 4:5,7; 3:19; 9:10, Psalm 104:24; 136:5; Jeremiah 10:12; Romans 11:33; Luke 11:52; Colossians 2:3; 1 Corinthians 8:1, 13:8; Romans 1:28.

    Principle #10: The education of children and youth must have a view of the future that includes the eternal perspective (Colossians 3:1-2; Matthew 6:19-20; 2 Timothy 4:6-8; Acts 20:24; Hebrews 11:13; Colossians 3:23-24).
  4. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

  5. LadyFlynt

    LadyFlynt Puritan Board Doctor

    I don't see how we are creating a "Christian ghetto"...my children and I still interacting with those within our society, including other children, and perhaps moreso than if they were in a school setting. My children participate throughout the day with all various ages.

    Yes, I'm gonna train my kids to infiltrate the government. When they are grown, they will be well prepared to do so ;) Patrick Henry College, YOU are in our sights!
  6. Arch2k

    Arch2k Puritan Board Graduate

    This topic has much to do with a study of the roles of the three institutions established (and given roles) by God.

    Government: Minimal role in human affairs as possible. Protection of human rights (life, liberty, and processions).

    Church: The administration of the Word and Sacraments. Oversight of the Law of God in the private sector (i.e. church discipline etc.)

    Family: The mutual help of one another (husband and wife). The prevention of sexual immorality. The producing, raising and teaching of children (a godly seed).

    This is not an exhaustive list, but most duties can be derived from the ones listed. When people begin blurring the lines, trouble happens. God has his formula of roles, and we must be careful to obey them clearly.

    The family is the import of this subject. We must understand God's intent and role of parents in a Godly family. Does the establishment of the family as God has set forth include "farming out" education? By no means. We might as well farm out our kids. But then one might ask "Why even HAVE kids then?" Good question. God calls us to raise up children in the way of the Lord. This does not include sending them off to a secular humanist school. Childhood is a time for learning, and growing up, not a time for teaching others (i.e. the world) how to live.

    When this happens, we can expect reformation in this country, even if it is just reformation in our own family.

  7. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    This is the product of government education. :D
  8. BobVigneault

    BobVigneault Bawberator

    I agree with what's being said but I am thinking about the history of education. Like hopitals and social welfare, education was propagated by the church. At somepoint, probably because of the pre-tribbers, we pulled back and left a vacuum and now we complain because there is no Christian element in the schools.

    I am a confirmed home schooler, but I wonder if we havent shrugged our responsibilities as salt and light. Is there a way to turn things around or do we give up on reforming the 'statist' schools?
  9. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    I am aware of the Puritan heritage that public schools have in this country under the Olde Deluder Satan Act. But the Puritan public schools which taught the New England Primer under theocratic government and the statist Prussian model schools which began under Horace Mann's influence are vastly different. I am of the opinion that the Puritan model was well-intentioned and beneficial in many ways but off the mark principially. The Horace Mann model is just pernicious. Either way, I believe in separation of school and state because I don't see that government statist education can be reformed.

    [Edited on 6-16-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
  10. LadyFlynt

    LadyFlynt Puritan Board Doctor

    The problem was (I just saw a LHOTP episode last night that showed this!) the church stepped back and handed the schools over to the state in exchange for the money the schools would receive. We have no way of aquiring those back. Now if a church wishes to start a school of their own, fine. I personally find it to be second best to what God has established...but a fine mission for those around them. I would like to see a Christian school set up for ministering without the overtly high cost to the parents of these kids though...where the church, through various means, supports the school rather than FULL dependance upon tuition.
  11. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    At least the hippies got one thing right :lol:

    Unfortunately, they mess it up with verse 2, "Teach... your parents well..." :um:
  12. Augusta

    Augusta Puritan Board Doctor

    I heartily agree with Colleen, Andrew, Jeff, et al!! :up::up::up::up:
  13. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    I think if the public schools would be committed to teaching rather than brainwashing, then they could be redeemable. But that is not the case anymore. They simply don't teach anymore. I can teach my children at a much higher level than any public school can. I can bypass the sex ed nonsense, the cultural diversity (every one is good except Christians) nonsense, the ethical nonsense (Neitzche), and actually teach him the fundamentals; English, Math, History, Philosophy, Greek (or any foreign language), Writing, Critical thinking, whatever, all within a Christian worldview. I can pick the best books, and train them properly. And if he's interested in a particular feild, I can integrate the rest with it to help him learn. A public school has no such flexibility at all, where all must move at the pace of the slowest kid, with the most watered down curriculim. This is just common sense. I was a product of the public school system, and though it wasn't as bad then as now, I still was never pushed to my potential. That made it more difficult as I entered adulthood. I had alot of catching up to do in college.
  14. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    See this article for more insights into the philosophy of education.
  15. Augusta

    Augusta Puritan Board Doctor

    Patrick just summed up exactly why I homeschool. :ditto:
  16. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior

    here is a thought about sending kids to influence schools.....

    would you attend a cult, a Mormon "church", a Catholic "church", a Jehovah's Witness "church" - or send your kids there to participate in the daily activities in order to be a witness, salt and light?


    Why? Because you would be subjecting yourself and your children to false religion.

    But is that not exactly what the government schools are doing? They are teaching and practicing the religion of secular humanism. And they are intolerant of any other religion that is exclusivistic, ie. Christianity.

    So would you send your kids off to be unnattended and fully participating in the services at the neighborhood Mosque in order for them to be a missionary? Then why send them to government schools?

  17. Arch2k

    Arch2k Puritan Board Graduate

  18. BobVigneault

    BobVigneault Bawberator

    Great point Pastor Way, I'm convinced.
  19. rmwilliamsjr

    rmwilliamsjr Puritan Board Freshman

    from: emailed "by faith"
  20. LadyFlynt

    LadyFlynt Puritan Board Doctor

  21. Augusta

    Augusta Puritan Board Doctor

  22. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior

  23. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    Though I agree with the sentiments of teh proposal, I also agree with the GA's action to reject it. It would be impossible to enforce. Unless every church in the PCA is willing to fund the education of their children, either homeschooling or private, then they can't condemn parents, especially poor parents, for using the public schools. It's a sad dilemma, but a reality still.
  24. WrittenFromUtopia

    WrittenFromUtopia Puritan Board Graduate

    Postmillennialism is delayed another year ... :p
  25. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior

    I've been having this discussion with several folk over the past few days and on a secular board I now frequent. I think I'm in agreement with where you stand on this. My thought on it is still developing, though. The viewpoints tossed out in this thread have helped a lot.

    Andrew - thanks for the links!

    [Edited on 6-17-2005 by OS_X]
  26. LadyFlynt

    LadyFlynt Puritan Board Doctor

    Sorry, but the "poor people" excuse doesn't work for me. And BTW, I AM one of those "poor" (you should see our finances, most don't know how we're doing it). Anyhow, here is why it doesn't work for me.....

    I believe the church is responsible for making decrees like they tried to make in the PCA. They are also responsible for assisting those that it would be considered a "hardship" on. We used to go to a church where you were required to send your child to their school or homeschool (though homeschooling was looked down on a few families still did it). The parents only paid for the books. If a family couldn't afford the books, arrangements were made to assist in that area. The church provided the schooling and the teachers. Really a church only needed 2-3 teachers (for a smaller congregation) as each teacher taught about three grades within the same classroom.

    The problem I see with why ppl like the PCA DON"T want to do this is they don't want the true biblical responsiblity (and haven't been taught that this is included in helping the poor and widows amoung them) in this aspect. They don't want the downfall and loss of membership that will come with such a decree (so let's exchange purity if we can just keep our numbers, right?).

    Sorry, I'm with HSLDA and Doug Philips on this one. HSLDA pays for members curriculums if the father passes away...until all children are through with school. And Doug Philips has a CD out on assisting single parents homeschool their children (this can be applied to church schools as well, I'm sure)...BTW, I know single, poor (even on welfare) parents that both work and homeschool their kids. It is possible.
  27. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior

    Try telling that to the mother and father who both have minimum wage paying jobs and have to work upwards of 12 hours a day and are living paycheck to paycheck because the cost of living in their area is so high.

    Some things aren't as cut and dry as you try to make them seem on here, Colleen. No disrespect to what you're doing, but realistically - you haven't experienced poverty.

    You have internet access. You're not poor.

    I, on the other hand, teach kids who wear the same clothes to school multiple days, sleep out in the streets and such because their parents are either strung out, no father in the home or the kids are wayward. Among my kids that are at least nominally Christian, the bulk come from single family homes. Homeschooling is OUT as an option. The price of living in PG County is so high that most of the parents can't afford to move anywhere else (the only nearby option is DC....which is where most of them moved FROM to get away from the city....) and can't afford private schools (the only three in the area are Seton, Bishop MacNamara and there's one more, but the name escapes me right now) and transportation costs for their kids would be too expensive to send them even to the local charter school in DC. So the school they're in, is the school they're in. Most of these parents have jobs that don't offer benefits - don't work, don't get paid. And some of them are already losing money because they have to take days off to come up to the school to take care of business regarding their child.

    So it's not an 'excuse' that some aren't able to afford to homeschool - it's reality.

  28. Augusta

    Augusta Puritan Board Doctor

    Kerry, I believe Colleen is speaking of Christian parents in particular with the financial and congregational support would have no excuse. That is the situation she would like to see.

    Me personally, over my dead body my kids would go to public school. If I was dirt poor then I would teach them as much as I could off the top of my head or from thrift store books and let them be sub par in schooling before sending them to government schools. I think even this would be superior to the sub par schooling they would get at a government run school. This is as a Christian mind you, who wants her children brought up, by me, in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

    Obviously this is not the conviction of some bible believing Christians so I don't expect non-christians to hold to it.

    I also want to add: Didn't the resolution just ask the church to "encourage" homeschooling? I didn't think it was anything like forcing all PCA members to homeschool or be excommunicated. Encouraging people to homeschool is too much of a strain on the Christian conscience??

    [Edited on 6-17-2005 by Augusta]
  29. Arch2k

    Arch2k Puritan Board Graduate

    I don't understand how homeschooling costs so much money!?? There is still such a thing as a library...no? As far as both parents working, and using schools as a baby-sitting service is dangerous (if not outright sinful) on so many levels. The woman was meant to stay at home.

    Titus 2:4-5
    That they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.

    It is the husband's duty and responsibility to provide for his family. It is his God-given role. This does not mean riches, but enough to allow for godly instruction, for wife to stay at home (at least when there are kids in the house) etc.

    1 Timothy 5:8
    But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

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