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Isn't the PCA just the OPC without a psalter
Thanks Mr. Haig for "live blogging" this.
Watching by web cam, I came away with a great appreciation for the way our PCA does business- a combination of head on dealing with difficult issues interspersed with worship and much prayer. I really sense God's providence through the twists and turns.
.... I came to believe a study committee would be helpful if it was based on Scripture exegesis. A resource for the denomination, and maybe for others.
So, when Brian Chappel, President of Covenant Seminary, spoke in favor of a study committee he said some who wanted it believe it would only strengthen the valuation of the office of Deacon, he was describing me.
When Reverend Fred Greco spoke, I changed my mind.
He pointed out that the Constitution (Book of Church Order) is clear, the denomination studied this issue thoroughly when we were formed, and has spoken that it believes Scripture says what our Book of Church Order says. If some disagree, they can persuade others and overture to change the Book of Church Order.
It particularly made sense when Mr Greco said, like our US government system, change generally goes from "bottom up" (local or session, presbytery) level and then moves up. Our system allows sessions and presbyteries to "reference" questions about practice already to the General Assembly in various ways and they can always initiate overtures if they do not believe the Constitution reflects Scripture.
Amazingly, shortly after that carried the argument, a big debate occurred over similar issues reviewed by the Committee on Review of Presbytery Records. Many got involved, and I saw that the process is there already, and it works.
Isn't the PCA just the OPC without a psalter
Apparantly it is also a denomination with "tools of feminism" in it.
Isn't the PCA just the OPC without a psalter
Apparantly it is also a denomination with "tools of feminism" in it.
.... I think some are confusing "diaconal" (mercy) ministry with the ordained office of Deacon. If anything, our Book of Church Order might make more explicit the role of the Board of Deacons in overseeing mercy ministry, prioritizing it, and the Board involving men and women under its oversight to carry out the very very important work of mercy, servant, diaconal ministry.
Most impressive young man, that Rev. Greco. And he took on a seminary prez too? Watching a group debate a controversial issue and really, really, really try to be biblical is so refreshing! It is almost enough to make me want to join the PCA!
Then they could say -- we have women deacons -- and it would be totally legal in the PCA.
For you PCA brethren . . .
Am I reading it accurately to think that the egalitarian position was being championed by the Covenant prez because his school is possibly hiring more egalitarian profs these days? Or, is that just a malignant speculation on my part? I always thought you Reformed folks were holding the line while we broad evangelicals were in a bidding war to see who could get to hell in a handbasket first.
At one point in the discussion yesterday, a pro-overture man spoke about the increasing numbers of young men pursuing ministry in the PCA who favor the position that women should be ordained as deacons. This is, I suspect, part of the motivation for pursuing the changes.
Most impressive young man, that Rev. Greco. And he took on a seminary prez too? Watching a group debate a controversial issue and really, really, really try to be biblical is so refreshing! It is almost enough to make me want to join the PCA!
For you PCA brethren . . .
Am I reading it accurately to think that the egalitarian position was being championed by the Covenant prez because his school is possibly hiring more egalitarian profs these days? Or, is that just a malignant speculation on my part? I always thought you Reformed folks were holding the line while we broad evangelicals were in a bidding war to see who could get to hell in a handbasket first.
Then they could say -- we have women deacons -- and it would be totally legal in the PCA.
Interesting, but if the BCO says Deacons have to be ordained to be Deacons, and only men can be Deacons how would a WIC person be legally called a Deacon without being ordained?
Interesting. In my view, a session could declare that it's WIC officers were deaconesses to assist the deacons, without the ladies having a vote on the deacon board, and be in compliance with existing PCA law. And I intend to so propose, at our next session meeting.
Again, Dennis, I must dissent: the idea that the minority position was "egalitarian" was the opinion of only one speaker in favor of the majority position. No one speaking from the podium branded the minority position as "egalitarian."
And one speaker in favor of the majority rebuked the speaker using the term "egalitarian" as out of order.
The moderator's response was: feelings are running high; no one is surprised that this issue invoked the most passion; and I hope no one has been offended.
And another pastor spoke directly to women. “There’s much we need to do—we’re failing to love fully half of the body of Christ,” said Jonathan Inman, pastor of Grace and Peace PCA in Asheville, N.C. “I’m sorry for the ways the church has offended women and often been unaware of it.”
Again, Dennis, I must dissent: the idea that the minority position was "egalitarian" was the opinion of only one speaker in favor of the majority position. No one speaking from the podium branded the minority position as "egalitarian."
And one speaker in favor of the majority rebuked the speaker using the term "egalitarian" as out of order.
The moderator's response was: feelings are running high; no one is surprised that this issue invoked the most passion; and I hope no one has been offended.
Thanks for the correction. I must have over-interpreted the quote from the byfaithonline.com description of the event:
And another pastor spoke directly to women. “There’s much we need to do—we’re failing to love fully half of the body of Christ,” said Jonathan Inman, pastor of Grace and Peace PCA in Asheville, N.C. “I’m sorry for the ways the church has offended women and often been unaware of it.”
That sounded like an egalitarian argument to me. But, it is always good to be corrected by a real live steely-eyed lawyer man posting from the floor of the meeting. Thanks for correcting my misapprehensions due to distance, both geographic and ecclesiastical.
Given the strong bias against CBMW by almost all broad evangelicals and by an increasing number of conservatives, even in the Reformed schools, perhaps I am seeing ghosts were they don't exist. I had thought that the complementarian position was taking a pretty good beating in most seminaries these days.
(BTW, Sunday morning I am teaching through Galatians and will do an extended discussion of egalitarian vs. complementarian views of 3:28).