PCA—15 years from now?

[scotthill]

Good evening,

I hope the holiday season is treating everyone well. Additionally, please move this to the proper board if it’s not meant to be in “General Discussions.”

My question today is about the PCA.
Where do you guys (and girls) think the PCA will be 15 years from now? As far as I can tell, there seems to be a liberal shift taking place. It’s probably one of the causes of the new Vanguard Presbytery as well.
Anywho, do you think the PCA will be alive and well in 15 years? Will it still have a decent amount of Conservative members? Is it a dying denomination? Is it worth seeking ordination in the next few years (I’m a student at WTS and am hoping to be seeking ordination in the PCA or OPC within the next few years.)
What are ya’ll’s thoughts on the denomination?

 

[Solparvus]

If we pray for the PCA and ask the Spirit to work mightily among its churches, and He comes, it has its best years ahead.

 

[Edward]

do you think the PCA will be alive and well in 15 years?

Fears that the denomination will split or apostatize shouldn't drive your current decisions.

What you should do is pray and go where the Lord calls you. (As a side note, you are probably unlikely to be at your first call 15 years after your ordination, anyway). Faithfully shepherd and lead your congregation, whether that means retaining denominational affiliations or leading them out at the proper time.

 

[Edward]

If we pray for the PCA and ask the Spirit to work mightily among its churches, and He comes, it has its best years ahead.

I'm not optimistic about that. The denomination is clearly on the wrong trajectory.

 

[smalltown_puritan]

I'm not optimistic about that. The denomination is clearly on the wrong trajectory.

As an encouragement, so was the RPCNA and the ARP. But I think the best days for both denominations, as it were, lie ahead.

As to the original post, I would simply encourage you to heed well the counsel of your elders and also your own ecclesiological convictions (e.g. 2- or 3-office, your view on confessional subscription, etc).

 

[Solparvus]

I'm not optimistic about that. The denomination is clearly on the wrong trajectory.

If we don't ask, we will definitely not receive, James 4. In that case, the PCA (and any other true church whoever they be) is as good as dead.

But we are told to ask for the Spirit in Luke 11. That includes for the PCA. We ask sccording to God's will, 1 John 5, and His prescribed will is the intense spiritual vibrancy of the visible church, Ephesians 1. I believe God would have us err on the side of believing and expecting the very best of the riches of His grace.

His power to work has never been at the mercy of our condition. All of us were on the way to hell, but despite grieving the Spirit continuously, God saved us, and made us new creations, worlds different from what we were. It can't be any more difficult for Christ to so work in the visible church of which His true sheep are members.

And the PCA is still a true branch of the visible church. She should not be declared dead until she really is dead. Until then, the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick. And if they have committed any sins, they will be forgiven.

(None of this is intended as an evaluation of the PCA's true state... I leave that to those "in the know").

 

[B.L.]

As an outside observer with some first-hand, but mostly second-hand observations:

I think the PCA will continue to slowly grow numerically in the coming years due to it being big tent evangelical, but it'll likely come at a cost. The denominational growth will likely come from those with no Presbyterian & Reformed (P&R) roots and considering the uneven emphasis on catechetical instruction that presently exists I foresee a watering down of doctrine with less stress placed on preserving the theological distinctives that makes the denomination P&R. There will still be pockets of solid confessional churches and maybe even entire presbyteries depending on where you are in the country, but in other geographic regions finding a church that is confessionally-minded might be hard to come by in the future.

In 15 years the PCA might very well look like...well...something like the ACNA does today -- a mixed bag of (mostly) evangelicals with rival/competing views of what the denominational identity should be...only it won't be hip to be a Presbyterian in 15 years like being Anglican is at the moment.

Meanwhile...us Baptists will be grappling with a whole host of other issues in the decade to come.

Pray without ceasing dear friends...and then pray some more.

 

[Jack K]

Hmm. It's so hard to predict such things. But I suspect we may see something similar to what the Southern Baptists are currently experiencing: an increasing divide between those who want the church's witness to include concern for cyclical poverty, reconciliation between social/racial groups, etc. and those who are immediately suspicious of such talk and concerned that it means the church is embracing a worldly mindset.

At the same time, I am hopeful both of these camps may be able to learn from each other and grow more robustly Christian. The social-concerns camp badly needs the right-doctrine camp so that its zeal is informed and directed by Christian thinking rather than by worldly, progressive thinking. And the right-doctrine camp needs the social-concerns camp so that it doesn't blindly embrace American conservatism, confusing it for Christianity, but is challenged to find distinctly Christian ways to express the truth in love in our world.

I heartily agree that we should pray more than we complain. That's godly advice amid almost any concern, especially concerns about the church.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I’ve been associated with the PCA since I began attending a PCA church in 2003. I was ordained as a PCA TE in 2006. I definitely perceive that my denomination has long since been on a liberalizing trajectory. But I am quick to point out that being on a liberal trajectory means that we are taking incremental steps that have us their terminus infidelity. But this does not mean that we have reached that point now, Nor do I believe have we reached the pivotal “point of no return.” Thus I still believe it is possible to “save“ my denomination from the trajectory it is on.

If I consider the question of where I think the denomination will be in 15 years, I begin by looking back at what has transpired in my denomination in the last 15 years. In my estimation, while some bad rulings and decisions have been made, the biggest sign of the troubles to come has been in the worldview and outlook of the ministers coming into our denomination - either by transfer or by grooming in Reformed seminaries.

While I despise Greg Johnson’s tweet after 2019‘s General Assembly, I think he’s right: the tide is on their side. Eventually simple math cannot be ignored, and the left is bringing in more people than is the right, and once the people on the right either leave the denomination or retire or die, eventually the people on the left will have a majority. And that’s when the official decisions and pronouncements of our denomination will take a decided leftward turn.

So when I looked at where the PCA will be in 15 years, I think it will look very different. I think one of two things will have happened: either conservatives will rally with such ferocity that the left will either be purged or will self remove to a more “loving” denomination of their choosing, or the “nice guys” in the squishy middle will side with the “winsomeness” of the missional left, and thus vote with the left on decisions that are friendly to the left, and at that point I think you’ll see many more conservatives leave. So 15 years from now I think the PCA will either be a more conservative or a more liberal denomination, but I don’t think it will look like it does now.

 

[Alan D. Strange]

Scotty:

For the 35 years that I've been in the WTS orbit, including over 30 years of ordained ministry, these sorts of things about the PCA have been said: it will soon split, there's a liberal movement afoot, etc.

Now, I grant that some events of recent years may raise some more serious questions about where it is headed, but there is really no question as to its viability. I think that many in the PCA would find it odd that smaller churches would question their viability. Her confessional fidelity is always a valid question, but her growth shows no clear signs of abating.

It used to be said that once a denomination moves leftward theologically or completely goes moderate/liberal, there is no turning back. Not only have our Covenanter and Seceder friends disproved this but so have other larger groups, including the SBC (though where it is presently headed is questionable).

I agree that we should pray for renewal in all of our churches: for personal and corporate mortification of sin and vivification in righteousness, particularly in the fruit of the Spirit.

That said, you would certainly be welcome in the OPC, though I want the PCA full of good and sound men (there are many there; some of them are on this board).

Peace,
Alan

 

[B.L.]

I just stumbled upon today's post at The Heidelblog written by R. Scott Clark and thought it relevant to the questions posed in the OP -- Three Vital Questions For the PCA In 2021. FYSA if interested. It's a quick read with plenty of links to other articles on the subject.

 

[Edward]

but her growth shows no clear signs of abating.

The growth curve flattened a good bit when MNA went from a model of planting churches in the growing suburban fringes of cities to an urban/ethnic planting model. (Of course, membership numbers in the PCA have never been reliable, with a large chunk of the churches not sending in numbers, and some that do being less than diligent about purging rolls.) One positive thing I've always said about the PCUSA is that they do a really good job with statistics. The same can't be said of the PCA.

I don't think there will be a split, but I do see churches on the conservative fringe drifting away. Hopefully some of the more activist liberal congregations will leave as well - voluntarily, or not.