Pastors

[Tyrese]

I have a question for those of you who are Pastors. If you are knowledgeable of my question but not a Pastor, feel free to answer as well. Before asking my question I will say that my question is coming from a Reformed Baptist (congregational) perspective.

Is it normal for a man to Pastor a Church when he himself doesn't live in the state of the Church he is (supposedly) called to serve? Lets say this man drives almost two hours every week with no intentions to move. Is this biblical? What are some of your thoughts on this?

 

[Jash Comstock]

Well, I'm not a pastor, but I know several who do live a ways away. I don't see anything biblically against residing so far away.

 

[Tyrese]

Well, I'm not a pastor, but I know several who do live a ways away. I don't see anything biblically against residing so far away.

Interesting! I look forward to hearing more thoughts on this.

 

[nicnap]

Is it normal for a man to Pastor a Church when he himself doesn't live in the state of the Church he is (supposedly) called to serve? Lets say this man drives almost two hours every week with no intentions to move. Is this biblical? What are some of your thoughts on this?

How is his shepherding of the flock? Does he make pastoral visits? Does he visit the hospital? Dos he visit the infirmed & shut-ins? If he is not able to do those things & only preaches---he is neglecting a portion of his calling (Acts 20:20); though, there may be cases where the Ruling Elders do the bulk of the visitation--the pastor should be accessible to his people.

 

[Tyrese]

Is it normal for a man to Pastor a Church when he himself doesn't live in the state of the Church he is (supposedly) called to serve? Lets say this man drives almost two hours every week with no intentions to move. Is this biblical? What are some of your thoughts on this?

How is his shepherding of the flock? Does he make pastoral visits? Does he visit the hospital? Dos he visit the infirmed & shut-ins? If he is not able to do those things & only preaches---he is neglecting a portion of his calling (Acts 20:20); though, there may be cases where the Ruling Elders do the bulk of the visitation--the pastor should be accessible to his people.

You said, "the pastor should be accessible to his people." Interesting! Can you elaborate on this?

 

[KMK]

Two hours is not 'normal' nor ideal, but that doesn't mean it isn't sometimes necessary.

 

[jambo]

The bible does not lay down how far pastors should live from their churches. However it would seem to be very unwise to live at such a distance. To even visit the church building or locality for any reason would entail a round trip of nearly 4 hours which does not seem good use of his time and resources. Pastors should live where the bulk of the congregation live. He needs to be accessible to the congregation and in cases of emergency needs go be on site quickly. If a pastor does not want to move house because of children's schooling then he should have thought of that before taking up office, whilst the church should have thought of that before issuing a call.

 

[Jash Comstock]

Is it normal for a man to Pastor a Church when he himself doesn't live in the state of the Church he is (supposedly) called to serve? Lets say this man drives almost two hours every week with no intentions to move. Is this biblical? What are some of your thoughts on this?

How is his shepherding of the flock? Does he make pastoral visits? Does he visit the hospital? Dos he visit the infirmed & shut-ins? If he is not able to do those things & only preaches---he is neglecting a portion of his calling (Acts 20:20); though, there may be cases where the Ruling Elders do the bulk of the visitation--the pastor should be accessible to his people.

I know in my area, our church is spread out over three cities. I live over an hour away from my church. In a scenario like this the pastor would have to travel a ways no matter if he lived near the church or not.

 

[nicnap]

You said, "the pastor should be accessible to his people."

It is difficult to pastor people that you do not know; if you are not there for them to get to know, it is not likely that you will be an effective pastor. It will be difficult for a man who lives two hours away to be accessible to a family in immediate crisis (a suicide; sudden death; wreck)--and as much as Ruling Elders are shepherds of the flock, the Pastor is who the family expects to see in such times (though, some congregations are "trained" well enough to understand a Ruling Elder may be the one to visit; however it is difficult to consider a man as pastor if there is little to no interaction with him). Also, if a pastor is in town or nearby, it would seem like less of a "bother" to set up a counseling appointment with him.

 

[nicnap]

I know in my area, our church is spread out over three cities. I live over an hour away from my church. In a scenario like this the pastor would have to travel a ways no matter if he lived near the church or not.

This does not seem to be the case in the OP. There are people from 5 cities in our congregation (granted they are closer together than some), but I may have to drive up to 45 minutes one way for a pastoral visit---however, I am not voluntarily living 2 hours away from my people. I am located less than a mile from the church, and near a majority of the members. The reason that there are others who drive such a distance is that we are the only Reformed congregation in our county.

 

[Edward]

I wouldn't describe such a situation as 'normal'. But there aren't enough facts to draw conclusions as to a specific situation.

almost two hours every week

An hour each way isn't really very far by Texas standards. It may even be within the IRS commuting standards. "The distance test: Your new workplace must be at least 50 miles farther from your old home than your old job location was from your old home." Tax Topics - Topic 455 Moving Expenses And depending on the area, he may be underwater on his house and can't afford to move at the moment.

So I'd need more info before I started taking potshots.

 

[Tyrese]

I know in my area, our church is spread out over three cities. I live over an hour away from my church. In a scenario like this the pastor would have to travel a ways no matter if he lived near the church or not.

This does not seem to be the case in the OP. There are people from 5 cities in our congregation (granted they are closer together than some), but I may have to drive up to 45 minutes one way for a pastoral visit---however, I am not voluntarily living 2 hours away from my people. I am located less than a mile from the church, and near a majority of the members. The reason that there are others who drive such a distance is that we are the only Reformed congregation in our county.

Exactly. I'm talking about a situation where all the members of the Church live at least 10-40 mins from one another and the Pastor is traveling from a completely different state with no intentions to move.

 

[Andres]

Tyrese, have you discussed this with the pastor already? If it is a concern of yours, then I'd suggest charitably bringing this matter to his attention. As some have already mentioned, it is important that the pastor be accessible for visits, emergencies, etc. At the same time, as Edward suggested, perhaps this pastor has a reason for his current location. Let the pastor know your concerns and go from there.

 

[Tyrese]

Tyrese, have you discussed this with the pastor already? If it is a concern of yours, then I'd suggest charitably bringing this matter to his attention. As some have already mentioned, it is important that the pastor be accessible for visits, emergencies, etc. At the same time, as Edward suggested, perhaps this pastor has a reason for his current location. Let the pastor know your concerns and go from there.

Good point Andres! I often find it helpful to get different perspectives on a particular issue. Sometimes its good to check just to make sure I'm not perhaps being unreasonable with what I (or someone else) may be thinking.

 

[rbcbob]

Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

It is understood in the New Testament Scriptures that elders shepherd the souls among whom they share a common life. Their calling and verification of the same assume this situation.

 

[pepper]

I am an Associate Pastor, and I would find it hard to properly pastor people that live 2 hours away. While there is no Biblical command on the distance, I believe the responsibilities of pastoring would be hurt.

 

[Tyrese]

The bible does not lay down how far pastors should live from their churches. However it would seem to be very unwise to live at such a distance. To even visit the church building or locality for any reason would entail a round trip of nearly 4 hours which does not seem good use of his time and resources. Pastors should live where the bulk of the congregation live. He needs to be accessible to the congregation and in cases of emergency needs go be on site quickly. If a pastor does not want to move house because of children's schooling then he should have thought of that before taking up office, whilst the church should have thought of that before issuing a call.

Great points Stuart!

 

[reaganmarsh]

Hi Tyrese,

While in seminary I served as interim pastor for a church an hour away. The stated duties involved teaching SS, leading/preaching the Sunday AM service, & visiting members. Between working 30+ hours at my job, being a FT seminary student, and sermon prep, the visitation was incredibly difficult to maintain.

I could not imagine such an arrangement -- at twice the driving distance -- being sustainable "for the long haul" in most circumstances, though I will grant that some of our brethren above have raised valid points (ie, if the minister's home couldn't sell, or the elders carried that load).

With no disrespect and all charity to the brothers whose ministries look like this, my experience bore more resemblance to circuit riding than to normal eldership.

 

[Cymro]

If a shepherd does not like the smell of sheep he should not be a shepherd.
You can tell a true shepherd by the smell on his clothes, which is true of the
Hill farmer here in Wales, and the crofter in the Hebrides. No shepherd is very
far from his flock because of fox and eagles, it used to be wolves. He lives for his
Flock. He shall gather his lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and gently
lead them with young. Even the Good Shepherd did not tend at a distance, but came
and dwelt amongst us.

 

[jambo]

If a shepherd does not like the smell of sheep he should not be a shepherd.
You can tell a true shepherd by the smell on his clothes, which is true of the
Hill farmer here in Wales, and the crofter in the Hebrides. No shepherd is very
far from his flock because of fox and eagles, it used to be wolves. He lives for his
Flock. He shall gather his lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and gently
lead them with young. Even the Good Shepherd did not tend at a distance, but came
and dwelt amongst us.

Well said Jeff.

 

[Tyrese]

If a shepherd does not like the smell of sheep he should not be a shepherd.
You can tell a true shepherd by the smell on his clothes, which is true of the
Hill farmer here in Wales, and the crofter in the Hebrides. No shepherd is very
far from his flock because of fox and eagles, it used to be wolves. He lives for his
Flock. He shall gather his lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and gently
lead them with young. Even the Good Shepherd did not tend at a distance, but came
and dwelt amongst us.

Very well said!

 

[Edward]

I would find it hard to properly pastor people that live 2 hours away.

interim pastor for a church an hour away...

I could not imagine such an arrangement -- at twice the driving distance

Folks, the original post says

this man drives almost two hours every week

Now unless the pastor is alternating a week near the church with a week near his house, two hours driving a week means an hour away, not two hours away. I spend two hours a day commuting. And as I've said up thread, that isn't a lot in Texas.

 

[Tyrese]

I would find it hard to properly pastor people that live 2 hours away.

interim pastor for a church an hour away...

I could not imagine such an arrangement -- at twice the driving distance

Folks, the original post says

this man drives almost two hours every week

Now unless the pastor is alternating a week near the church with a week near his house, two hours driving a week means an hour away, not two hours away. I spend two hours a day commuting. And as I've said up thread, that isn't a lot in Texas.

Your right. I apologize for the way I wrote that. Actually others have properly understood what I was trying to say even though I wasn't being very clear. Its two hours to, and two hours from. So were talking almost 4 hours of driving on any given trip.

 

[reaganmarsh]

I would find it hard to properly pastor people that live 2 hours away.

interim pastor for a church an hour away...

I could not imagine such an arrangement -- at twice the driving distance

Folks, the original post says

this man drives almost two hours every week

Now unless the pastor is alternating a week near the church with a week near his house, two hours driving a week means an hour away, not two hours away. I spend two hours a day commuting. And as I've said up thread, that isn't a lot in Texas.

Hi Edward,

Perhaps I misread his post; I took it to mean "one way."

And given your note that 2 hours isn't a big issue in Texas, I should have qualified my statement something like this: I personally have never served a church that would be okay with such an arrangement, and I would find it quite difficult to shepherd effectively in such an arrangement. My experience, as noted above, was very challenging for me; although others might not find it so.

It wasn't at all my intention to dishonor this brother, and if my post communicated that, I sincerely apologize.

Grace to you.

 

[Tyrese]

I would find it hard to properly pastor people that live 2 hours away.

interim pastor for a church an hour away...

I could not imagine such an arrangement -- at twice the driving distance

Folks, the original post says

this man drives almost two hours every week

Now unless the pastor is alternating a week near the church with a week near his house, two hours driving a week means an hour away, not two hours away. I spend two hours a day commuting. And as I've said up thread, that isn't a lot in Texas.

Hi Edward,

Perhaps I misread his post; I took it to mean "one way."

And given your note that 2 hours isn't a big issue in Texas, I should have qualified my statement something like this: I personally have never served a church that would be okay with such an arrangement, and I would find it quite difficult to shepherd effectively in such an arrangement. My experience, as noted above, was very challenging for me; although others might not find it so.

It wasn't at all my intention to dishonor this brother, and if my post communicated that, I sincerely apologize.

Grace to you.

Actually you properly understood my post. I think you made great points in your original response.

 

[reaganmarsh]

Thanks for clarifying the driving details, and I'm glad that my previous post was helpful for you!

 

[Edward]

I personally have never served a church that would be okay with such an arrangement

I would think that would be the norm. But there are a number of facts that we don't have. And I'm not willing to think ill of the man based upon what is before us. And I'm certainly not going to encourage someone to undermine their pastor on non-doctrinal grounds without a solid basis.

 

[yeutter]

J. Frank Norris was simultaneously senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Fort Worth, Texas and senior pastor of Temple Baptist Church in Detroit, Michigan. He led the fundamentalist fight against modernism in both the Northern and Southern Baptist Conventions. He was a solid preacher of God's Sovereign Grace. He had a large staff at both congregations.

 

[reaganmarsh]

I personally have never served a church that would be okay with such an arrangement

I would think that would be the norm. But there are a number of facts that we don't have. And I'm not willing to think ill of the man based upon what is before us. And I'm certainly not going to encourage someone to undermine their pastor on non-doctrinal grounds without a solid basis.

Edward,

Somehow, we're misunderstanding each other. I don't think ill of this man. Nor would I ever under any circumstances (much less an internet discussion board) "encourage someone to undermine their pastor on non-doctrinal grounds without a solid basis." I fully agree with you that we don't have all the facts.

I'm not upset with you. However, it appears that my comments on this thread have irritated you, sir. And for that, I apologize; such was not my intention. I intended only to reflect on my own limited experiences/struggles in serving as a pastor in a somewhat similar situation, not to pick a fight.

I will now bow out so that the thread may retain proper focus on Tyrese's OP.

Hopefully we'll interact again here on the PB with better results some other time.

Grace to you, Edward.

 

[Rev. Todd Ruddell]

I believe the most concerning part of the OP was "with no intentions to move". That kind of distance may be necessary for a time, but there must be a plan in place for the minister to move onto the field, and great care must be taken during that transition period.