Overture to 36th GA PCA: Deaconesses

[Reformed Covenanter]

John Frame favours women deacons in his book Salvation Belongs To The Lord. In my humble opinion the Biblical qualifications require those who hold that office to be a man.

 

[Romans922]

Frame also doesn't hold to the RPW.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Frame also doesn't hold to the RPW.

He actually gives quite a good definition of it in Salvation Belongs To The Lord, but in practice he does not hold to it at all. Nevertheless, he is a good writer.

 

[Civbert]

Given that some PCA churches have appointed deaconesses, and this appears a violation of the BCO, I think the PCA should welcome the opportunity to address the issue.

 

[Stephen]

Calvin had women deacons in Geneva and encouraged the practice. The women were primarily charged with ministering to other women, primarily in hospitals. The PCA does not ordain women as deacons but a number of PCA congregations have women deacons. Some of that may be from the old RPCES before it joined with the PCA, but I would suspect it is has more to do with women (non-ordained) functioning in a ministry of service. Women currently serve as deaconesses in the OPC and the APR and as Kevin said this has never created a problem. There are a couple things I see with this overture to the General Assembly this year: 1. I have very strong reservations that this could open the floodgate for the entire issue of women's ordination, which I would strongly oppose. 2. If the overture is designed to give women more active role in diaconal work, I would have no problem with it. I do think a study committee should be formed out of this overture before any vote comes to the floor of the assembly. There should be solid men on that committee who are willing to honestly look at the issue and not use it as a political ploy to open the door for the ordination of women. Remember women are not restricted from using their gifts to serve in the church but they are restricted from exercising authoritative teaching, governance, and rule within the church. I would be curious to see how the Philadelphia Presbytery introduced this overture and why, because there are solid men in that Presbytery that would be opposed to ordaining women.

 

[Stephen]

I was listening to R.C. Sproul a number of years ago speak on this subject in a "Message of the Month" thing. He stated that he had served on the PCA Study Committee on the ordination of women deacons and was the minority opinion on the committee in favor of their ordination.

I disagree with his opinion but was just providing a bit of trivia.

I have never heard this before about Sproul, Sr. but he is strongly opposed to women being ordained to office of ruler, teacher, and sheperd.

 

[Stephen]

It would profit us all to understand what it means to hold an "Office". What is the nature of holding an Office?

Does holding an Office mean there is inherent authority associated with said office? If this office(r) is exercising authority and administering things (especially in the name of the church). . .

Are women permitted to exercise authority over men and the church?

No.

2 options:

1) Holding an Office has intrinsic authority attached to it ---therefore "No" to women.
2) Holding an Office does not have intrinsic authority attached to it ---therefore "Yes" to women. [-still waiting to hear from someone who holds to this-]

But wait, if #2 is true, how would a woman have such an Office with all its requirements when her natural domain is keeping the home? (Titus 2 & co.) This sounds as if God would be calling women away from their ordinary station in life to another and contradictory station.

This undermines God’s word and the governance of the family.

It seems very clear to me that deacons hold an office of authority in the church as you state in option #1, but I believe that there can and should be women appointed as deaconnesses to serve under/along side the deacons. These women do not hold authority, but in much like a healthy marriage, they contribute, advise and serve along side the men performing works of mercy that are out of the realm of the men, i.e, ministering to the women.

Regarding your option #2, I believe the reason that this issue comes up at all (apart from the odd woman whose motive is to gain control and power) is because there is a general tendancy in the church for male leadership to forget that there are many women who are not yet married, whose children are out of the home, or who are widowed. So often, these women long for a more active role in the church and are ignored by the male leadership (by either action or attitude) or deemed "unfit" to minister because they are too old or not married. I do realize I am making a blanket statement and that not everyone is like this, but it is all too common.

I know what I am saying from personal experience. I married and had children later in life than most women, and so for nearly 12 years I had time on my hands (and the desire) to serve the Lord in the church in a larger capacity than a married woman with family could have done. The PCA church to which I belonged was not open to single women serving anywhere apart from teaching children's Sunday school classes and singing in the choir. To a woman with mercy and shepherding gifts, this can be totally frustrating, and it was for me.

The Lord eventually led me to serve on the mission field for 3 years where I experienced a totally different approach to women in ministry. There was plenty for me to do that didn't require me to serve as an officer in the church. Under the direction of male leadership, I counseled women, made "pastoral" visits to women, taught, cared for the sick, etc. This all ended the day I returned to my home church. It seems there is little room for women in the average church to exercise these types of gifts, and I believe that serving as a deaconess in the capacity to which I just referred is not only biblcial but necessary in the church.

When I married, of course, my focus changed. Paul addressed this in I Cornithians 7. Paul addresses both the single men and the single women saying that as single people, they are free to be concerned with things of the Lord. If there is not some larger ministry for a single or widowed woman to do in the church, then why would Paul even make this statement? Again, I am NOT saying that a woman should hold an office of authority. I am saying that male leadership often has too narrow of a view of what women can do in the church, and this push for recognition of women deaconnesses is merely an attempt to address this problem.

Thanks, for your comments. I agree that the trend is away from male headship, which women are not authorized to exercise, so we should use caution. I think the PCA position against women being ordained as deacons stems from the fact that we regard the office as authoritative in the same way as ruling and teaching elders, and I am not sure we can do that. Women can serve in a diaconal role and not be exercising oversight or headship.

 

[Romans922]

Calvin had women deacons in Geneva and encouraged the practice. The women were primarily charged with ministering to other women, primarily in hospitals. The PCA does not ordain women as deacons but a number of PCA congregations have women deacons. Some of that may be from the old RPCES before it joined with the PCA, but I would suspect it is has more to do with women (non-ordained) functioning in a ministry of service. Women currently serve as deaconesses in the OPC and the APR and as Kevin said this has never created a problem. There are a couple things I see with this overture to the General Assembly this year: 1. I have very strong reservations that this could open the floodgate for the entire issue of women's ordination, which I would strongly oppose. 2. If the overture is designed to give women more active role in diaconal work, I would have no problem with it. I do think a study committee should be formed out of this overture before any vote comes to the floor of the assembly. There should be solid men on that committee who are willing to honestly look at the issue and not use it as a political ploy to open the door for the ordination of women. Remember women are not restricted from using their gifts to serve in the church but they are restricted from exercising authoritative teaching, goverance, and rule within the church. I would be curious to see how the Philadelphia Presbytery introduced this overture and why, because there are solid men in that Presbytery that would be opposed to ordaining women.

And can we see where this is true???

 

[Stephen]

Calvin had women deacons in Geneva and encouraged the practice. The women were primarily charged with ministering to other women, primarily in hospitals. The PCA does not ordain women as deacons but a number of PCA congregations have women deacons. Some of that may be from the old RPCES before it joined with the PCA, but I would suspect it is has more to do with women (non-ordained) functioning in a ministry of service. Women currently serve as deaconesses in the OPC and the APR and as Kevin said this has never created a problem. There are a couple things I see with this overture to the General Assembly this year: 1. I have very strong reservations that this could open the floodgate for the entire issue of women's ordination, which I would strongly oppose. 2. If the overture is designed to give women more active role in diaconal work, I would have no problem with it. I do think a study committee should be formed out of this overture before any vote comes to the floor of the assembly. There should be solid men on that committee who are willing to honestly look at the issue and not use it as a political ploy to open the door for the ordination of women. Remember women are not restricted from using their gifts to serve in the church but they are restricted from exercising authoritative teaching, goverance, and rule within the church. I would be curious to see how the Philadelphia Presbytery introduced this overture and why, because there are solid men in that Presbytery that would be opposed to ordaining women.

And can we see where this is true???

I am sorry, but I do not understand your question.

 

[SRoper]

Stephen, I'm pretty sure you are wrong about the OPC having deaconesses. APR has deaconesses, but they have also considered ordaining women to the office of elder, so I don't know what that proves.

There certainly are solid men who support deaconesses such as R. Scott Clark. I don't think they are correct, though.

 

[Pilgrim]

Calvin had women deacons in Geneva and encouraged the practice. The women were primarily charged with ministering to other women, primarily in hospitals. The PCA does not ordain women as deacons but a number of PCA congregations have women deacons. Some of that may be from the old RPCES before it joined with the PCA, but I would suspect it is has more to do with women (non-ordained) functioning in a ministry of service. Women currently serve as deaconesses in the OPC and the APR and as Kevin said this has never created a problem. There are a couple things I see with this overture to the General Assembly this year: 1. I have very strong reservations that this could open the floodgate for the entire issue of women's ordination, which I would strongly oppose. 2. If the overture is designed to give women more active role in diaconal work, I would have no problem with it. I do think a study committee should be formed out of this overture before any vote comes to the floor of the assembly. There should be solid men on that committee who are willing to honestly look at the issue and not use it as a political ploy to open the door for the ordination of women. Remember women are not restricted from using their gifts to serve in the church but they are restricted from exercising authoritative teaching, governance, and rule within the church. I would be curious to see how the Philadelphia Presbytery introduced this overture and why, because there are solid men in that Presbytery that would be opposed to ordaining women.

Women do not serve as deacons in the OPC but they do in the RPCNA and ARP.

 

[Romans922]

Calvin had women deacons in Geneva and encouraged the practice. The women were primarily charged with ministering to other women, primarily in hospitals. The PCA does not ordain women as deacons but a number of PCA congregations have women deacons. Some of that may be from the old RPCES before it joined with the PCA, but I would suspect it is has more to do with women (non-ordained) functioning in a ministry of service. Women currently serve as deaconesses in the OPC and the APR and as Kevin said this has never created a problem. There are a couple things I see with this overture to the General Assembly this year: 1. I have very strong reservations that this could open the floodgate for the entire issue of women's ordination, which I would strongly oppose. 2. If the overture is designed to give women more active role in diaconal work, I would have no problem with it. I do think a study committee should be formed out of this overture before any vote comes to the floor of the assembly. There should be solid men on that committee who are willing to honestly look at the issue and not use it as a political ploy to open the door for the ordination of women. Remember women are not restricted from using their gifts to serve in the church but they are restricted from exercising authoritative teaching, goverance, and rule within the church. I would be curious to see how the Philadelphia Presbytery introduced this overture and why, because there are solid men in that Presbytery that would be opposed to ordaining women.

And can we see where this is true???

I am sorry, but I do not understand your question.

May I have some evidence where Calvin believed that and practiced this? (women deacon thing)?

 

[Kevin]

Stephen, I'm pretty sure you are wrong about the OPC having deaconesses. APR has deaconesses, but they have also considered ordaining women to the office of elder, so I don't know what that proves.

There certainly are solid men who support deaconesses such as R. Scott Clark. I don't think they are correct, though.

What it "proves' Scott, is that the one does not lead to the other. The ARP has deaconesses and soundly defeated the idea of women elders. The use of the phrase "but they have also considered ordaining women...elders" implies that the one leads to the other. It does not.

And you are correct the OPC does not have them, it is the RP.

 

[Bygracealone]

I thought PCA already allowed for deaconesses. Maybe I am thinking of another Presbyterian denom.

You may be thinking of our denomination--RPCNA. This was an issue for me when it came time for my ordination. I had to take an exception to the practice of ordaining women to the diaconate, but thankfully was still ordained (but by only one vote!).

Please know that while I personally take exception to the practice, I would not be quick to say that just because a denomination adopts the practice that it automatically means the denomination is liberal. That's hardly the case with us.

I heard Ed Clowney teach on the subject (recorded lecture on "The Ordination of Women" available from WTS). If my memory serves me rightly, I think he was in favor of the practice of ordaining women to the diaconate.

Schwertley wrote a book entitled "A Historical and Biblical Examination of Women Deacons." It's available online here: A Historical and Biblical Examination of Women Deacons

 

[Zenas]

The ARP allows for their ordination, but it is up to the local congregation to decide if they want to allow them or not. There is no standing mandate from Synod to allow for female deaconesses.

 

[Stephen]

There are OPC congregations that have deaconessess but they are not ordained. We cannot assume that because a woman is serving in a diaconal role that this automatically leads to her wanting to become an elder. The office of deacon is not a stepping stone to the office of ruling elder or teaching elder. This is certainly an unbiblical teaching.

 

[Pilgrim]

There are OPC congregations that have deaconessess but they are not ordained. We cannot assume that because a woman is serving in a diaconal role that this automatically leads to her wanting to become an elder. The office of deacon is not a stepping stone to the office of ruling elder or teaching elder. This is certainly an unbiblical teaching.

It may indeed be unbiblical, but unfortunately that is the mentality that many have, that deacon is a stepping stone to elder.

 

[Bygracealone]

The ARP allows for their ordination, but it is up to the local congregation to decide if they want to allow them or not. There is no standing mandate from Synod to allow for female deaconesses.

Andrew, I believe there must be a standing ruling by your Synod that allows for this practice generally otherwise it would be a violation of the standards to ordain women to the diaconate. Synod certainly cannot mandate that women be ordained to the diaconate, that's for sure. But the Synod must have come to the conclusion (as a Synod) that the practice is Biblical in order for them to allow for it to be practiced.

That said, how this is carried out in practice will always come down to the makeup of the congregation. For instance, in our congregation, even if a woman were nominated to the diaconate, it's not likely she would have enough support during the election.

 

[BJClark]

A question, what is the difference between "Ordaining" and "Commissioning" in such an instance? Isn't one given more authority in the role of Ordination and the other not so much so?

Would it be possible to commission a woman to serve in this capacity as opposed to ordaining her in that role?

 

[Stephen]

And can we see where this is true???

I am sorry, but I do not understand your question.

May I have some evidence where Calvin believed that and practiced this? (women deacon thing)?

In Calvin's commentary on Romans 16 he states that Phoebe held a holy function in the early church and calls her a deaconess. Alexander McGill in his book, Church Government shows that the office of the deacon was restored to the church during the Reformation and says that from Calvin to Charles Hodge there is a succession of men who held to an official meaning of deaconess in its application to Phoebe. Calvin in his Institutes in Book IV makes the case for deaconesses. Berghoef DeKoster in his book entitled The Deacon's Handbook shows the role of the deaconate in church history and states that Calvin used women in Geneva to fulfill various roles of service and ministry.

 

[Stephen]

There are OPC congregations that have deaconessess but they are not ordained. We cannot assume that because a woman is serving in a diaconal role that this automatically leads to her wanting to become an elder. The office of deacon is not a stepping stone to the office of ruling elder or teaching elder. This is certainly an unbiblical teaching.

It may indeed be unbiblical, but unfortunately that is the mentality that many have, that deacon is a stepping stone to elder.

But who has fostered that mindset in the minds of people in our churches? It is men in positions of leadership. Many churches think that if a man has served as a deacon this automatically qualifies him to serve as a ruling elder. We need to Reform church government and leadership in our churches. I think we cannot assume that every woman who wants to serve or minister in the body has some secret aspiration to become an elder. Remember, that it is not always the women who are pushing the issue, but men

 

[wsw201]

The idea of a "commissioned Deaconess" has no Scriptural warrant and trying to rely on Pheobe to make the case is a weak argument. Even Calvin's argument in the Institutes is not very convincing.

Should women serve the Church through mercy ministries? You bet!! Any Diaconate that would refuse help, whether male or female, is being short sighted. Gifts for serving the Church have been distributed to all in the Church by the Holy Spirit including women. But does this mean that we need to have a special "commissioning" for women? Do they need a special title like Deaconess? Why the need to have some special "commissioning" for folks who just want to help out??

What about men who have not been called by Christ to be Deacons but they also want to be apart of the Diaconal ministry? Can we "commission" them as well? What would be their title?

BJ asked what's the difference between "ordaining" and "commissioning". The answer is the PCA and OPC BCO. A church cannot ordain a woman but is silent about "commissioning". Basically its a word game. Its like what's the difference between "exhorting" and "preaching"? not much (if anything).

Unfortunately, this idea of "commissioning" Deaconesses and going so far as having these women give the same vows as Deacons give (at least as far as Redeemer has done) is very telling about the state of the Presbyterian church. In my humble opinion, this resolution reflects the low opinion that the office of Deacon holds within the church.

 

[ReformationArt]

The OPC does not have deaconesses. There are some who would favor the practice, but even the few I know who would favor it in theory, would not favor it in practice, given our cultural context. They fear it would be a dangerous move....and they are correct.

Women play a vital role in the life of the body of Christ, and they don't need an ordained office to use their gifts! A woman does not need the title "deaconess" to show mercy to others, to bring meals to the sick, etc.

Moreover, the lack of office does not in any way lessen the value or importance of the labor!

 

[fredtgreco]

The OPC does not have deaconesses. There are some who would favor the practice, but even the few I know who would favor it in theory, would not favor it in practice, given our cultural context. They fear it would be a dangerous move....and they are correct.

Women play a vital role in the life of the body of Christ, and they don't need an ordained office to use their gifts! A woman does not need the title "deaconess" to show mercy to others, to bring meals to the sick, etc.

Moreover, the lack of office does not in any way lessen the value or importance of the labor!

Amen, Andrew!!

Why must we always find compromises in order to "show that we value" someone. Why not just value the person (in this case, women) and tell them that. Support women laboring in the church. Use them in your mercy ministry. Use men. Use children. Remind your congregation that they are valuable. Remind them that the Lord uses them. Remind them that their work counts for eternity.

 

[Stephen]

A question, what is the difference between "Ordaining" and "Commissioning" in such an instance? Isn't one given more authority in the role of Ordination and the other not so much so?

Would it be possible to commission a woman to serve in this capacity as opposed to ordaining her in that role?

Good point, brother

 

[raekwon]

Good discussion, everyone. I especially appreciate the insight of Pastor Greco and the ladies who've chimed in.

One thing that I'm not quite clicking on just yet is the notion that the office of deacon necessarily includes "authority" (at least spiritual authority). Could someone help me out?

 

[ReformationArt]

Greetings Rae,

The office of deacon is instituted in Acts 6, as follows:
Acts 6:2-6 2 And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. 3 Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. 4 But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word." 5 And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch. 6 These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them.

These men must meet certain qualifications, and they are ordained, set apart for a specific task and duty. They are vested with the authority to carry out that task, and set aside for it in a way that non-ordained believers are not.

The high calling of the office is seen also in the qualifications listed in 1 Tim. 3, as follows:
1 Timothy 3:8-13 8 ¶ Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

The authority of the deaconate differs from that of the elder. The elder exercises spiritual oversight (authority), while the deacon exercises authority over the physical needs in the mercy ministry.

So you see the original purpose in Acts 6, the apostles needing to focus on spiritual oversight, so the office is instituted to care for the physical needs of the body.

 

[fredtgreco]

Exactly, Andrew.

The very existence of an office assumes authority, since that is the nature of an office. Christians are not prohibited from doing acts of mercy (indeed, the contrary is true: they are commanded to do so). If this is true of all Christians, then what is the office of deacons for? It must be (as Acts 6 clearly implies) to oversee (that is, have authority over) the acts of mercy being conducted by the church.

 

[Zenas]

The ARP allows for their ordination, but it is up to the local congregation to decide if they want to allow them or not. There is no standing mandate from Synod to allow for female deaconesses.

Andrew, I believe there must be a standing ruling by your Synod that allows for this practice generally otherwise it would be a violation of the standards to ordain women to the diaconate. Synod certainly cannot mandate that women be ordained to the diaconate, that's for sure. But the Synod must have come to the conclusion (as a Synod) that the practice is Biblical in order for them to allow for it to be practiced.

That said, how this is carried out in practice will always come down to the makeup of the congregation. For instance, in our congregation, even if a woman were nominated to the diaconate, it's not likely she would have enough support during the election.

The Standards of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church

Form of Government

Chapter VII - Concerning Deacons, p.196 and 197, 2006 Ed.

2. To this office should be chosen persons* of good character, honest repute, exemplary life, brotherly love, sympathetic nature, and sound judgment, and who are qualified under the standards recorded in Scripture.

"*Circumstances of the local congregation shall require each session to determine the meaning of the word "persons."

The Synod leaves it up to the local congregation to define persons.

*Disclaimer: I am not saying I agree with this practice, but that this is the practice of the ARP.*

 

[Bygracealone]

The ARP allows for their ordination, but it is up to the local congregation to decide if they want to allow them or not. There is no standing mandate from Synod to allow for female deaconesses.

Andrew, I believe there must be a standing ruling by your Synod that allows for this practice generally otherwise it would be a violation of the standards to ordain women to the diaconate. Synod certainly cannot mandate that women be ordained to the diaconate, that's for sure. But the Synod must have come to the conclusion (as a Synod) that the practice is Biblical in order for them to allow for it to be practiced.

That said, how this is carried out in practice will always come down to the makeup of the congregation. For instance, in our congregation, even if a woman were nominated to the diaconate, it's not likely she would have enough support during the election.

The Standards of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church

Form of Government

Chapter VII - Concerning Deacons, p.196 and 197, 2006 Ed.

2. To this office should be chosen persons* of good character, honest repute, exemplary life, brotherly love, sympathetic nature, and sound judgment, and who are qualified under the standards recorded in Scripture.

"*Circumstances of the local congregation shall require each session to determine the meaning of the word "persons."

The Synod leaves it up to the local congregation to define persons.

*Disclaimer: I am not saying I agree with this practice, but that this is the practice of the ARP.*

Thanks for that Andrew. That does clarify things a bit. However, I think we must conclude that the ARP, as a Synod, affirms the practice of ordaining women to the diaconate, else they could not allow for the practice at the congregational level. Right? In other words, passing the judgment down to the session doesn't take anything away from the fact that the Synod would affirm the practice if a congregation so chose to ordain a woman deacon. While worded differently than our BCG,this works out practically the very same way in our denomination.

Anyway, thanks again.