OT Elemental use of musical instruments ceremonial and gone in NT or not?

Discussion in 'A capella Exclusive Psalmody' started by bookslover, Sep 19, 2019.

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  1. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Senior

    I'm not trying to drag you back into this, but...

    Don't you think that referencing Hirst, apparently a Methodist with no regard for the RPW, might be ever so slightly problematic when arguing a Reformed view of worship?

    But I'm going to give this discussion a rest, too, at least for the weekend. I will finish reading this chapter of the book, though.
     
  2. Henry Hall

    Henry Hall Puritan Board Freshman

    If so, Knox, Gillespie, Rutherford, etc. are made to be 2CVers.
     
  3. Regi Addictissimus

    Regi Addictissimus Completely sold out to the King

    Please do not stir up controversy and debate on the Lord's Day.
     
  4. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

    Sorry Daniel. I am way out of this. What is a 2CVer?
     
  5. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

    You can tell me tomorrow.
     
  6. Henry Hall

    Henry Hall Puritan Board Freshman

    Wow.
    No, that’s a much-considered argument, dispassionately stated: If the use of instruments is to clear the Regulative Principle by becoming commanded—as has been claimed by such as Pastor Joe Morecraft and Pastor Dr Phillip Kayser—then Knox and the other early Presbyterians (who were against instruments in worship) become violaters of the Second Commandment, in which case, why would such men want to be Presbyterians?
    Honest argument.
     
  7. G

    G Puritan Board Junior

    Even though you and I likely hold the same views regarding instrument use in worship proper, I am not sure your post #242 helps moves the conversation any further than the previous 240ish post. I say that as a fellow brother and with deep sincerity. We all are 2CVers ( 2nd Commandment Violators) in some way my friend, reformed puritans included. Even today I was very much overwhelmed of how much my motives and focus fail on the Lord's Day. This reminded me that without the Great High Priest (Christ), I am a condemned 2CVer through & through. I am further reminded of the joy and thankfulness I have for Christ who never once could be truthfully called a 2CVer. So yes, many reformed "heavy-hitters" were against instrument use in worship, but @timfost knows this I assure you. I hope you have had a blessed Lord's Day.

    P.S. I think @Reformed Bookworm is trying to just make sure we don't add too much to this thread on the Lord's Day as it will likely lead to more "debate" type conversation, which runs a higher risk of turning ill. It can wait until tomorrow.
    :detective::detective::detective:
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  8. Reformed Covenanter

    Reformed Covenanter Puritanboard Commissioner

    It was actually @Henry Hall who made the statement, not me. But what is meant by 2CVer is Second Commandment Violator/Violation. It is not an abbreviation that I like, but that is text-messaging for you. Not that I would know much, as I loathe mobile 'phones.
     
  9. Regi Addictissimus

    Regi Addictissimus Completely sold out to the King

    Respectfully, you may wish to spend your time being argumentative and debating issues, which I agree are of utmost importance but do not drag others into it on a day in which we should pause and occupy ourselves in worshipping our God. Also, I am not sure how you gathered I was making an argument in support of either side from my statement. Today is the Lord's Day. I should not need to clarify myself any further.
     
  10. Regi Addictissimus

    Regi Addictissimus Completely sold out to the King

    That is precisely what I intended. I thought this was quite apparent from what I said.
     
  11. Regi Addictissimus

    Regi Addictissimus Completely sold out to the King

    I apologize if I came across as rude. Seeing debates on the Lord's Day saddens me. We have six other days to hammer out the intricacies of theology. Today should be reserved for worship.
     
  12. Henry Hall

    Henry Hall Puritan Board Freshman

    Brother, let me explain. In an effort not to stir up debate, I held back the explanation of my “wow.”
    By the same token as “we had just had 240 posts of” errrr discussion, why is *now* the time not to “stir up debate” which I wasn’t doing. That argument has been developing in my mind for many months as I have been dealing with corruption in my own Presbyterian denomination (which is not the WPCUS BTW).

    The “wow” was about how my words from a week ago (about the use of “Sunday”) were blown out of proportion (attaching to my words things I didn’t say), I was the subject of name-calling, and I became the subject of a shameful juxtaposition more appropriate for Twitter than Puritanboard. This occurred on the Lord’s Day, and there was no correction for the 2 men, whom I had previously held in high regard. I guess my life is different than those of others here, because by the time I could get back to the conversation Thursday night, it had been shut down.

    So tonight I thought I could dispassionately offer my thought about Knox, et al, how absurd it was that Presbyterian leaders would propound a view which would make the early Presbyterians violators of the RPW and Second Commandment when nothing was more central to their teaching than what they taught on these exact issues.

    Hence, “Wow.”
     
  13. Henry Hall

    Henry Hall Puritan Board Freshman

    addendum: one of the attacks mentioned above was delivered by someone who, because of the time difference (I am in the US) probably did not occur on the Lord’s Day for him.
     
  14. G

    G Puritan Board Junior

    Brother,

    Let’s drop it or the thread will likely be locked. Longer threads need to die, in my opinion. I suggest, if you still want some other angles considered, to start a new thread tomorrow. I have been corrected on PB before myself, by men much wiser than me. I was initially angry, but now see it was needed.

    Let’s totally avoid blanket calling out PB (on any day). Faithful brothers/sisters serve as volunteer moderators, some being ministers of the Word. If you have an issue with how something was handled, then please consider private messaging an Admin/moderator (tomorrow). I have done this before and received wise council.:detective:
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  15. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

    What was this thread about? Didn't we answer that?
     
  16. Henry Hall

    Henry Hall Puritan Board Freshman

    Yes...Please let me add that I was not calling for correction, let alone on the part of an Admin, just noting that I *had* been corrected for less. (Actually, nothing, in my opinion; my argument, albeit underdeveloped, was from Scripture.)

    I would also like to clarify that neither attack occurred on the Lord’s Day.
     
  17. Reformed Covenanter

    Reformed Covenanter Puritanboard Commissioner

    You were not attacked in that thread. The neo-Covenanter views that you set forth on that occasion were subjected to critical scrutiny. All too often, people assume that a critique of their opinions is an attack on them personally, but that is not the case. Why you are raising this point in another, unrelated thread is not immediately clear. Besides, on that occasion, your critics were only agreeing with James Durham, which was sufficient to substantiate the thesis that your views go beyond those of the original Covenanters on the subject of using the word Sunday.

    That point aside, I do not think it is really reasonable to accuse anyone of stirring up controversy by further contributing to this thread on the Lord's Day. The thread was open on the Sabbath and the subject matter being discussed is of a spiritual nature, thus contributing to it is not incongruous with observing the Lord's Day.
     
  18. Jeri Tanner

    Jeri Tanner Moderator Staff Member

    And with that said, let’s let it go.
     
  19. Henry Hall

    Henry Hall Puritan Board Freshman

    Where did I espouse the view?
     
  20. Henry Hall

    Henry Hall Puritan Board Freshman

    Sorry, Jeri, I didn’t see that.
     
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