Open Letter to Fans of Christian Hip Hop Music

[Kiffin]

Gloria hit it on the spot. Some of us don't realize that some of our "responses" to certain types of music are "culturally" learned. Once again, read Romans 14.

This is not neccessarily true. For myself, it was culturally acceptable to love hip hop. I grew up with its influences all around me and I did very much enjoy it, however as I matured as a Believer, God changed my preference for music. Now I don't care for hip hop, even though most people want to assume I do. My brothers and I grew up in the exact same culture and they love hip-hop music and lifestyle and are totally enmeshed in it. I choose not to be. Culturally speaking, hundred year old hymns set to a single piano make no sense for me, but God has turned my heart to where now they are my preference.

I didn't say anything was necessarily true.

 

[SemperEruditio]

 

[BlackCalvinist]

About 2 years ago over on Sharper Iron's board, some people pitched a fit about Voice (Curtis Allen) performing "Unstoppable" at Piper's church. The thread went 30 pages. shai linne popped in and commented near the last page. A member at my board saved a copy of shai's post. I think it's very appropriate here.

Wow, what a fascinating discussion! With this being my first time posting here, I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Shai Linne. I found this forum because it was linked from a Christian Hip-hop website (yes, they do exist). I'll come clean immediately and let you know that I am a Christian Hip-hop artist myself and I count Curtis "Voice" Allen as a personal friend and a dear brother in Christ. I've followed this thread from the beginning. I was tempted to post when the discussion was still around 4 or 5 pages long. At that point, there had already been so many over-generalizations, false assumptions, factual inaccuracies and downright offensive statements that it would have been almost laughable had it not been so grieving. As the Lord's providence would have it, I had other obligations to tend to and had to wait until today to post. Little did I know that it would explode into more than 30 pages!

Honestly, it's a good thing that I didn't post yesterday, because I would have posted in anger, which obviously would not have been honoring to God. As the thread got longer, I continued to watch in amazement at the things that were being discussed concerning rap by people who were clearly uninformed concerning the genre. People who seemed to be otherwise intelligent and knowledgeable in the Scriptures said some of the most baffling things! I chuckled more than once as nearly everyone prefaced their statements by saying something to the effect of "I don't listen to rap", "Personally, I hate rap", "I'm not defending rap. We would never use rap in our church...", etc. Even those who sided with Piper were quick to acknowledge their disdain for the genre. So there you have it. If you can't agree on anything else, you were universally united in your negative opinion of rap! Who said there was no unity here?

As I signed up to post on this site, I gladly concurred with the fundamentalist doctrinal statement. I love Jesus Christ! I am passionate (though not nearly as I should be) about the glory of God, the supremacy of Jesus Christ in all things, sound doctrine, the doctrines of grace and discipleship. I am also passionate about reaching out to those who are either a part of or influenced by Hip-hop culture. In light of that final passion, there is much to be discouraged by in this thread. It was amazing how, among those who have such a high view of Scripture, how biblically uninformed this discussion has been! I'm grateful for the few who at least attempted to bring Scripture to bear on the conversation, even if I disagreed with some of the conclusions. I was also discouraged by how few people actually did any research at all about Hip-hop culture. I mean, If you're going to reject something with little to no biblical support, I would at least hope that you would do a little research, so as to give an informed opinion about what you're rejecting. I do appreciate the brother who took the time to look up "hip-hop" in wikipedia, only to come to the (incorrect) conclusion that "holy" and "hip-hop" are mutually exclusive. Very disheartening indeed.

I'm really not here to either present a defense or even address your arguments. That would take more time than I have, considering that the thread is about to close. However, the the more I thought about it, the more I realized that you all have very valid reasons for having the opinions that you do. I absolutely understand why you reject rap and question the integrity of someone who would use it in a Christian context. I understand why many of you consider rap to be "aesthetically bankrupt". I understand why some of you believe that anyone who could possibly think of using rap to glorify God obviously needs more discipleship. What other conclusion could you come to? Here's what I mean:

Of course you paint all "rap" with a broad brush. How could you make any differentiation at all? You have no idea that there have been at least 5 distinct eras in rap's brief, thirty-plus year history. Of course you see rap as a profane medium. What has your exposure been? The only exposure some of you have had is when you've walked into the room and caught your teenager watching MTV and told them to cut it off. Or when a car pulls up next to you blasting rap music at an obscenely high level- to the point where you can't even hear the music in your own car!

Of course you view rap music as "aesthetically bankrupt". Your ear is not trained to hear the brilliance of the cadences, rhythms and structure of the songs performed by the best Hip-hop lyricists. You haven't been exposed to the multisyllabic poetic forms of the best rappers that would put some of the best hymn writers to shame, in terms of verbal dexterity and lyrical complexity. All you hear is a loud beat with profanity being shouted over it!

Of course you believe that all rap is "intrinsically erotic in composition". (By the way, I'll refrain from telling Curtis that presumably older, caucasian men found what he did at Piper's church to be erotic. That might be more information than he needs) What are your examples? You've only been exposed to the crass, over-sexualized rap songs that typify much of the popular secular rap. Your conclusion is absolutely reasonable, based on how uninformed you are.

How could you possibly think that the rap's medium is appropriate for carrying the weight of the triune God's eternal truth? You could only believe that to be true if you've been exposed to rap lyrics such as the following:

"God doesn't just save us for forgiveness of sins
He takes us to shape us into an image of Him
Christ fulfilled the law when we were doomed with Satan
So believers get His righteousness through imputation
Now there's no condemnation for His consecrated
I know the process stated seems complicated
But it's the Holy Spririt's keen medication
All by His washing and regeneration"
(Timothy Brindle, "Sanctification")

Of course you don't believe that rap is appropriate for worship! You haven't been exposed to rap songs with lyrics such as this:

"On Mt. Sinai when He appeared the assembly near
Shouted violent cries and trembled in fear
And you can trust He'll delete and crush and delete
All lust and deceit, the clouds are the dust of His feet
Ask Nadab and Abihu, Rahab and the spies knew
Check Psalm 76, Asaph will remind you
A loud singing choir flips in the heavenlies
The proud King Uzziah stricken with leprosy
Those who don't fear get the harshest of punishment
Like Uzzah when He touched the ark of the covenant
The Lord struck him down?
Because he was a guilty man who assumed his filthy hands
Were cleaner than the dusty ground!
It defies your reasoning to try conceiving Him
His foes will flee and hide when the Son comes
My eyes have seen the King and I'm an evil thing
Woe is me for I am undone!"

Holy, holy, holy is the LORD!
Holy, holy holy is our God!
Holy, holy, holy is the LORD!
The whloe earth is filled with His glory!
(from "The Holiness of God" by Vessels of Mercy)

You have no idea that there is a group of young, Christ-exalting, theocentric, passionate, missions-minded believers in our generation who see Hip-hop not just as a genre of music, but a culture that shapes the worldview of a distinct people group that needs to be reached with the gospel. How could you know this? You haven't been to the evangelistic services in the Chicago area that featured Christian Hip-hop and culminated with gang members laying their guns on the altar as they weeped in repentance, crying out for the Savior. You haven't been privy to the multitudes of emails that testify of believers being led into sound doctrine and away from churches that promote false teaching because God's grace led them to actually look into the Scriptures for themselves to see what that Christian rap artist was talking about.

Of course you believe that rap can't be used for edification. You have no idea that calls are coming in from places as far as China and Brazil for Christian rap artists to help teach local pastors about discipleship because of the clear fruit that is abounding to God's glory in urban areas like Philadelphia, St. Louis, Dallas and Memphis. You are not aware that many in the Hip-hop generation are currently enrolled in or have graduated from some of the most elite seminaries and Bible colleges in our country. How could you know this?

Forgive me for being so long-winded. I just want to let you know that I absolutely understand your concerns. They are borne out of ignorance. And you are to be excused for that. However, your lack of basic Christian charity, lack of grace, cultural pride and refusal to acknowledge that God is glorified whenever the person and work of His glorious Son Jesus Christ are clearly explained, believed, understood and rejoiced in is inexcusable. And for that, some of you in here need to repent.

Soli Deo Gloria,
shai

 

[tlharvey7]

WOW!!! what a great post from Shai. i hope it changes wrong attitudes, but i doubt it.
The problem is that you have Christians who think thier subjective opinion is God's opinion... yet they are the same guys who come down on charismatics for getting revelation (rightfully so) this will never end.
it is the same thing!
meanwhile the Lord will continue to utilize brothers like Shai Linne... i know the artful abilities God has endowed him with have been a great
blessing for me and my kids.

 

[AThornquist]

That was a great post by Shai.

 

[SemperEruditio]

Great? You have got to be kidding! Did you guys read where Shai said, "gang members laying their guns on the altar...."

Altar?????!?!?!? Are you serious?????? That meant there was an ALTAR call...hence more Arminianism!!!

 

[OPC'n]

That was a wonderful post from Shai. I would like scripture which states what kind of music follows the RPW. I love the Trinity Hymnal myself and wouldn't want to trade it for anything else....but I'm sure that's my own preference which I cannot lay upon anyone. I listen to Shai outside of worship on the Sabbath. His music is more like teachings really.

 

[OPC'n]

I would like scripture which states what kind of music follows the RPW.

I believe that the singing of praises should be unaccompanied with singing and with grace and melody in the heart. This is what I think the following passages are speaking to (just because you requested, not that I want to hijack the thread).

Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Col. 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Psalm 38:20 The LORD will save me,
and we will play my music on stringed instruments
all the days of our lives,
at the house of the LORD.

 

[OPC'n]

I would like scripture which states what kind of music follows the RPW.

I believe that the singing of praises should be unaccompanied with singing and with grace and melody in the heart. This is what I think the following passages are speaking to (just because you requested, not that I want to hijack the thread).

Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Col. 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Psalm 38:20 The LORD will save me,
and we will play my music on stringed instruments
all the days of our lives,
at the house of the LORD.

Yes. All the days of their lives under the Levitical priesthoodian old covenant worship.

We use the example of Aaron's sons not coming before God in worship like they were instructed to do by bringing in things that God did not forbid but didn't stated for them to bring as our example of RPW. If we use them as guidance in our RPW, why are we excluding the Psalms? And if we are excluding the Psalms, then the EP ppl have a real problem.

 

[OPC'n]

I'm not excluding the Psalms. The very passages I mentioned speak of singing the Psalter.

and using instruments, right? Psalm 38:20 The LORD will save me,
and we will play my music on stringed instruments
all the days of our lives,
at the house of the LORD.

 

[Philip]

I would like scripture which states what kind of music follows the RPW.

I believe that the singing of praises should be unaccompanied with singing and with grace and melody in the heart. This is what I think the following passages are speaking to (just because you requested, not that I want to hijack the thread).

Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Col. 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

This evades the question. As I understand it, many forms of music can be done a capella: rap, jazz, chant (obviously--and BTW, it's probably the closest we have to NT worship), polyphony, fugue, motet, soul, barbershop, etc. What exactly does the RPW cover? Would instruments fall under circumstances of worship or not?

 

[ooguyx]

 

[OPC'n]

I'm not excluding the Psalms. The very passages I mentioned speak of singing the Psalter.

and using instruments, right? Psalm 38:20 The LORD will save me,
and we will play my music on stringed instruments
all the days of our lives,
at the house of the LORD.

Yes, we sing Psalm 38 at our church, but I'm unsure as to what that has to do with having no instruments in worship which are a vestige of old covenant and sacrificial worship? Consider Psalm 149:

5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. 6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; 7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

Are we to take our beds to church and sing on them? Bring our swords and execute vengeance upon the heathen? To take it a step further, shall we take our bulls to church and sacrifice them as burnt offerings? Anyway, Ma'am, I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone, and I don't want to continue to detract from the focus of the thread, so I'll leave it be.

Psalm 149 is talking about giving glory and singing His praises in ALL that they do whether it's laying down to rest or whether it's in conquering their enemies. It is not an instruction on RPW in the house of God whereas Psalm 38 is.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

EP arguments have never made sense for me precisely because of the very thing that Joshua cites.

Are we to take our beds to church and sing on them? Bring our swords and execute vengeance upon the heathen? To take it a step further, shall we take our bulls to church and sacrifice them as burnt offerings?

That and the whole 'psalms, hymns and spiritual songs in the septuagint mean psalms, psalms and psalms' thing (yes, I know they mean different kind of psalms).

and....

Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Col. 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

If you're making melody in your hearts, why should I be able to hear it ?

 

[au5t1n]

There is a different category of people who think "rap" is inappropriate for worship, yet having nothing to do with the genre of rap, etc. We also believe the same thing about rock, country, classical, southern gospel, etc. It has to do with what is authorized, not what is culturally relevant, appropriate, or preferred.

Thank you, I noticed early on in the thread that people were confusing what is appropriate for special worship with what is appropriate as a genre of music. The article quoted in the OP made that mistake.

---------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

I'm not excluding the Psalms. The very passages I mentioned speak of singing the Psalter.

and using instruments, right? Psalm 38:20 The LORD will save me,
and we will play my music on stringed instruments
all the days of our lives,
at the house of the LORD.

Sarah, are you suggesting we should build a Temple in which to worship?

 

[OPC'n]

There is a different category of people who think "rap" is inappropriate for worship, yet having nothing to do with the genre of rap, etc. We also believe the same thing about rock, country, classical, southern gospel, etc. It has to do with what is authorized, not what is culturally relevant, appropriate, or preferred.

Thank you, I noticed early on in the thread that people were confusing what is appropriate for special worship with what is appropriate as a genre of music. The article quoted in the OP made that mistake.

---------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

I'm not excluding the Psalms. The very passages I mentioned speak of singing the Psalter.

and using instruments, right? Psalm 38:20 The LORD will save me,
and we will play my music on stringed instruments
all the days of our lives,
at the house of the LORD.

Sarah, are you suggesting we should build a Temple in which to worship?

naw....that would really be out of budget for most of us anyway.....just go to your local, reformed church building and you will have arrived at the house of the Lord.

 

[au5t1n]

and using instruments, right? Psalm 38:20 The LORD will save me,
and we will play my music on stringed instruments
all the days of our lives,
at the house of the LORD.

Sarah, are you suggesting we should build a Temple in which to worship?

naw....that would really be out of budget for most of us anyway.....just go to your local, reformed church building and you will have arrived at the house of the Lord.

In that case, you'll hear spiritual instrumentation at an a cappella church service.

 

[OPC'n]

and using instruments, right? Psalm 38:20 The LORD will save me,
and we will play my music on stringed instruments
all the days of our lives,
at the house of the LORD.

Sarah, are you suggesting we should build a Temple in which to worship?

naw....that would really be out of budget for most of us anyway.....just go to your local, reformed church building and you will have arrived at the house of the Lord.

In that case, you'll hear spiritual instrumentation at an a cappella church service.

haha! ok whatever rings your bell.....errr I mean whatever doesn't ring your bell!

 

[Philip]

Just to note the variation in possible A Capella styles:
[video=youtube;ZTdPv9Nnn7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdPv9Nnn7o[/video]

 

[BlackCalvinist]

EP arguments have never made sense for me precisely because of the very thing that Joshua cites.

Are we to take our beds to church and sing on them? Bring our swords and execute vengeance upon the heathen? To take it a step further, shall we take our bulls to church and sacrifice them as burnt offerings?

That and the whole 'psalms, hymns and spiritual songs in the septuagint mean psalms, psalms and psalms' thing (yes, I know they mean different kind of psalms).

and....

Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Col. 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

If you're making melody in your hearts, why should I be able to hear it ?

The last I checked I've said nothing pertaining to the exclusive singing of Psalms. I've been talking about musical instrumentation, genre, and their appropriateness (or lack thereof) in worship. This is not an EP thread, nor is it in the EP forum. My goal is simply to point out that not everyone who rejects the genre of rap as being appropriate for worship does so from a concept "borne out of ignorance" or a lack of respect for "hip hop culture," whatever that is. Thanks much.

I know. I was just pointing out (kinda in passing...sorry for the derail) that those are usually the same arguments I've heard in defense of EP and the very things you cite are what make me question the legitimacy of the arguments put forth (I'm open to being wrong about it though).

No more threadjacking by me.

 

[awretchsavedbygrace]

Then, so that I may be perfectly clear, that answer is no.

1 Corinthians 10:31 "So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."

So your telling me that I can eat or drink to the Glory of God. But I cannot write words (that rhyme)put a beat behind them and have those lyrics glorify God?
Are you serious?

---------- Post added at 12:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

If the argument is being made that Christian Hip hop should not be part of public worship in a church setting than I 100 percent agree. But please be consistent and say the same for all other types of music, even rock. If the argument is being made that Christian Hip Hop hinders the gospel message, than this is clearly spoken out of ignorance. How do you explain people coming to Christ through the means of a Hip Hop song? Also the distinction must be made between Reformed Christian Hip hop and just Christian Hip hop. Reformed Christian Hip hop is God-centered. It does point the sinner to Christ. It does expose man for who he is: A helpless, wicked, wretch who needs of the Grace of God. To say otherwise is to not have listened to artists such as Timothy Brindle, Shai Linne and others.

 

[MikelKenn89]

I fail to see how a Beat or a guitar riff is Inherently evil. I'm a HUGE brutal metal fan. I loved death metal and black metal prior to salvation, and yes alot of the bands were completely and blatantly satanic. When I got saved I started listening to christian bands with the Same style. same "sound" but bold christian lyrics. if i go on my computer, make a hip hop beat with a drum program, and have no lyrics whatsoever to it, is it evil? and on what basis in scripture can this argument be grounded?

 

[MrMerlin777]