Ongoing prophecy (fore-telling) and the Scottish Covenanters

[Pergamum]

Are you saying that Grudem is a Charismatic?

 

[Scott1]

Please see responses below.

Those who hold that the prophetic "office" and thus prophecy as a norm, has ceased with either the demise of the Apostles
It's helpful to carefully understand what is being asserted.

It's not the "demise" of the Apostles, really, it is the completion of their unique foundational role in the church.

Our faith is built, once delivered (Jude 1:3) built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 2:20).

The apostles, by God's appointment, were being used to establish Scripture, which is special revelation.

This was a one-time office, similar to building a foundation to a house- one does not come back after the foundation has been laid and the walls are going up to try and re-lay a foundation. To do so would result in chaos and confusion.

Don't forget also, the office of Apostle had a qualification that the man chosen by God for the office had to be an eyewitness of Christ (Acts 2:32, 10:41).

Particular signs and wonders were given the apostles as special evidences of their authority, and God did miracles around that role, and in the context of the unique and abiding role God gave them in laying a foundation for our faith.



or the completion of the canon need to keep in mind one fact about the charismatic movement. It is NOT monolithic in doctrine.


By practice, communions that identify themselves as charismatic and pentecostal center their identity and practice around seeking special revelation, outside of Scripture, especially speaking in tongues and interpretation as an ordinary means, but also in the (apostles and prophets) "prophetic" sense.

The differences on that between communions that denominate themselves with those terms, at least in our time, are nuanced, but not differences of substance-

similar to the Pentecostal doctrine of a second work of grace, a baptism in the Holy Spirit. That doctrine is that there is automatically an accompaniment with speaking in an unknown tongue. Charismatics say, not necessarily, it could be one of several charismatic gifts.

But their substance is both wrong, because the Holy Spirit comes in full sufficiency at the time of salvation. We are baptized in the Holy Spirit when God regenerates us, and Scripture teaches that.

Likewise, the doctrine concerning the ordinary means of special revelation is wrong in both camps, charismatic, and pentecostal, biblicaly speaking.


There is at least a strong minority view within the CM that holds that prophecies origninating after the close of the canon are not binding on the church in the same way that the canon is because the work of the original Apostles and (if prophets) in Eph 3. is taken to be NT prophets in Eph. 3:5). Some in this group (e.g. Grudem) have gone so far as to argue that NT prophecy need not fulfill the 100% accuracy challenge of OT prophecy, but I find the cases put forward for this view to be unconvincing.

 

[MW]

People like Alexander Peden and others occasionally made prophecies but the office of prophet was never revived or claimed by them.

That is the key element which articles on this subject generally omit. In the Bible, a person who proclaimed a message from God declared that his message was from God. Where that element is omitted it is difficult to classify the speech as "prophetic."

Of course the "unusual" circumstances on how the events unfolded only presupposes that it would be prophetic. If it walks like a duck.....

But it does not quack like a duck. One point of resemblance is not sufficient for an identification.

So what would you suppose it would be? I am curious what you think because I think if someone foretold the future, in the detail described in this thread, then how could this NOT be a prophesy from God. So far as the explanation of "God-given sense of intuition" the detail just does not allow for that In my most humble opinion.

Samuel Rutherford: "Where faith is, it has the gifty of prophesying and foresight there" (Quaint Sermons, 4).

God has revealed His will with respect to the actions of men. "The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him; and he will shew them his covenant," Ps. 25:14.

 

[timmopussycat]

As I understand his views, and it has been a long time since I was acquainted with them, Grudem was then a member of a non-charismatic church whose opinions were sympathetic to the CM in some areas.

 

[the Internet]

1: the canon is closed
2: prophecy has ceased
We do not and should not expect prophets to arise in our midst.

3: the Spirit works in mysterious ways
4: God can do anything.
We may and should expect the miraculous.

5: the heart is deceitful and wicked above all things
6: none is righteous
We cannot depend for action or faith upon what our hearts and minds determine, only that which is contained in Scripture wherein is found all that is profitable for doctrine, reproof …

Careful interrogation and interpretation of the times may lead to more informed knowledge about what may transpire prospectively. This does not make one a prophet, and in fact, it may not even make one a profit.

Do any of the examples of potential fore- or forth-telling in this thread ascribe glory to God?

For me and my family sola scriptura!!

 

[Pergamum]

1: the canon is closed
2: prophecy has ceased
We do not and should not expect prophets to arise in our midst.

3: the Spirit works in mysterious ways
4: God can do anything.
We may and should expect the miraculous.

5: the heart is deceitful and wicked above all things
6: none is righteous
We cannot depend for action or faith upon what our hearts and minds determine, only that which is contained in Scripture wherein is found all that is profitable for doctrine, reproof …

Careful interrogation and interpretation of the times may lead to more informed knowledge about what may transpire prospectively. This does not make one a prophet, and in fact, it may not even make one a profit.

Do any of the examples of potential fore- or forth-telling in this thread ascribe glory to God?

For me and my family sola scriptura!!

Are you saying that Samuel Rutherford and the Scottish Covenanters did not believe in Sola Scriptura and a closed canon as well?

 

[the Internet]

I cannot speak for Rutherford, nor anybody else.