On Neo-Calvinism

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RamistThomist

RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
There are several threads dealing with "transformationalism," neo-calvinism, etc. I thought to offer some summary suggestions (and I have ebooks and stuff on this if any wants it. email me at jacob DOT aitken AT gmail DOT com)

I don't like the word "transformationalism," since it isn't entirely accurate with Kuyper's own take on culture. Strictly speaking, Kuyper didn't believe in a Christian culture, so it is not clear what he would be transforming. Further, it has been ruined today by the liberals at Calvin College and the virtue-signalers at the Gospel Coalition. And then there are the male ballerinas at Redeemer.

A big concept that separates all the people (Kuyper, Bavinck, Dooyeweerd, Vollenhoven) is the “boundary concept”. What is that you say? It is the boundary between the Creator and Creation. Dooyeweerd went with Law as the concept. Van Til and Stoker went with Creation itself. Vollenhoven went with time if I’m not mistaken. I think Bavinck went with Revelation.

Stoker and Van Til are the most similar. Van Til really appreciated Stoker’s work.

A lot of people always bring up Young's critique. It's okay. He tends to reduce all of Neo_Calvinism to Kuyper, and then focuses on Kuyper's problematic ideas.

Suggested reading:
Geertsema. Always Obedient: Essays on the teaching of Klaas Schilder. Magnficient work. Shows the differences between Schilder and Kuyper and why neo-calvinism cannot be reduced to any one figure.

Bavinck. Any volume. Spend the rest of your life reading these.

Wood, Thomas Halsey. Going Dutch. Shows how Kuyper's scenario forced him to a Reformed Baptist view on the covenant and election.

Dooyeweerd. Roots of Western Culture. Great job showing the different ground-motives that determine culture.

Van Til. Common Grace and the Gospel. Interacts with Kuyper and Schilder.

Wolters, Al. Creation Regained. Best intro to Reformational Philosophy.
 
So excited about this post thank you for taking up pen/keypad for this! I have much to say/ask... Will write more later when time permits!
 
Andrew P.C. said:
As in neo-Calvinism are you referring to these distinctions?

http://www.westminsterconfession.org/the-doctrines-of-grace/historic-calvinism-and-neo-calvinism.php
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Only in the most general sense. He reduces neo-calvinism to the disciples of Kuyper and Dooyeweerd, focuses on their unsavory aspects, and then runs his conclusion.

He says Schilder held to presumptive regeneration. I'll have to double-check, but that seems like the very opposite of what Schilder said. We issue baptism on the basis of covenant promises, not on regeneration. Kuyper was almost a Reformed baptist on this point.
 
I heard Professor Hendrik Stoker speak once, I think it was in 1973, at Calvin College in Grand Rapids. I must say I did not get much out of it since I knew so little of neo-Reformed thought at that time. The followers of Herman Dooyeweerd and Dirk Vollenhoven were trying to pin Professor Stoker down on some obscure point related to their philosophical system. The general consensus after he spoke was that both Klaas Schilder and Hendrik Stoker were closer to Cornelius VanTil philosophically, politically, and theologically then either was to Dooyeweerd and Vollenhoven.
 
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yeutter said:
The general consensus after he spoke was that both Klaas Schilder and Hendrik Stoker were closer to Cornelius VanTil philosophically, politically, and theologically then either was to Dooyeweerd and Vollenhoven.
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That sounds right. Both Stoker and CVT emphasized "creation" as the boundary. And van til said Schilder was a huge influence.
 
Finished both of those Sermon Audios and loved them! Had a few questions;

I would assume that a society under Kuypers views would be one of creativity and flourishing. I would assume around Kuypers active years (and his successors) would be the Golden days of Netherlands? But was this the case? In other words; what momentary or lasting tangible fruit can we see from all this talk of rich culture?


English translations of Kuypers works seem available at Acton Institute. What are your thoughts; http://shop.acton.org/books/kuyper-collected-works-in-public-theology.html


Johannes Vandenburg (sp?) was mentioned in this talk as a missiologist and he seemed very compelling. What do you know of him?


This guy speaking, F.N. Lee, seems a genius! I found online he has many works available. Thoughts on him?


Klass schlider - cultural mandate! This fellow seems he will stir me very much... It appears he's not Kalisz advocating just "personal salvation", but a much bigger picture... To me this is the most compelling aspect of this camp. Where can I read more for beyond just personal piety and salvation? That said, how do we keep Christ at his rightful place as the beignets?


What's the deal with Calvin college?


What's the deal with Toronto, Canada?

How does Van Til work into all of this?

How does Frame work into all of this?

How come all this Neo-Calvinism, which is so compelling, isn't spoken of or heard much about (beyond that of Keller) on the PB Board, or Gospel Coailition, or other Pious groups?
 
Stope said:
I would assume that a society under Kuypers views would be one of creativity and flourishing. I would assume around Kuypers active years (and his successors) would be the Golden days of Netherlands? But was this the case? In other words; what momentary or lasting tangible fruit can we see from all this talk of rich culture?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. The Netherlands had to recover from the Napoleonic wars and had a number of trade setbacks. And then immediately after Kuyper was WWI and WWII. Nobody really flourished at that point.

English translations of Kuypers works seem available at Acton Institute. What are your thoughts; http://shop.acton.org/books/kuyper-collected-works-in-public-theology.html
Click to expand...


Start with Pro Rege and then move to his Principles of Sacred Theology.

Stope said:
This guy speaking, F.N. Lee, seems a genius! I found online he has many works available. Thoughts on him?
Click to expand...

He's a lot of fun. I have minor disagreements with him, but I've gone through hundreds of his lectures. He also has an amazing life story. He evangelized his father's murderer.

Stope said:
Klass schlider - cultural mandate! This fellow seems he will stir me very much... It appears he's not Kalisz advocating just "personal salvation", but a much bigger picture... To me this is the most compelling aspect of this camp. Where can I read more for beyond just personal piety and salvation? That said, how do we keep Christ at his rightful place as the beignets?
Click to expand...

Read Always Obedient: Essays on Klaas Schilder by Geertsema.

Stope said:
What's the deal with Calvin college?
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I'll email you. Don't want to get into here.

Stope said:
How does Van Til work into all of this?
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Van Til "mediated" Kuyper, Bavinck, and Schilder to a conservative American audience.

Stope said:
How does Frame work into all of this?
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Frame is Van Til's most prolific student. Yeah, definitely dig into his works. He has hundreds of audio lectures.
 
ReformedReidian said:
Yes and no. The Netherlands had to recover from the Napoleonic wars and had a number of trade setbacks. And then immediately after Kuyper was WWI and WWII. Nobody really flourished at that point.



Start with Pro Rege and then move to his Principles of Sacred Theology.



He's a lot of fun. I have minor disagreements with him, but I've gone through hundreds of his lectures. He also has an amazing life story. He evangelized his father's murderer.



Read Always Obedient: Essays on Klaas Schilder by Geertsema.



I'll email you. Don't want to get into here.



Van Til "mediated" Kuyper, Bavinck, and Schilder to a conservative American audience.



Frame is Van Til's most prolific student. Yeah, definitely dig into his works. He has hundreds of audio lectures.
Click to expand...

All very helpful (as usual).

Crazy that he evangelized his father's murderer! I will indeed listen more to him. Any specific recommendations or shall I just go through them all?

Ever read, or know where I can find any version of Johannes Van den Berg's "Constrained by Jesus Love" (or any of his other works?)

You said "Read Always Obedient: Essays on Klaas Schilder by Geertsema", is that better than Schilder primary stuff? I was going to read Christ and Culture
 
Stope said:
Any specific recommendations or shall I just go through them all?
Click to expand...

HIs audio on Marxism and the French Revolution is great. His eschatology of victory is mostly good. His small course on apologetics is quite good. He was one of the few presuppositionalists who was able to integrate various presup models without screaming at the other side.

Stope said:
Ever read, or know where I can find any version of Johannes Van den Berg's "Constrained by Jesus Love" (or any of his other works?)
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I am unfamiliar with it.

Stope said:
You said "Read Always Obedient: Essays on Klaas Schilder by Geertsema", is that better than Schilder primary stuff? I was going to read Christ and Culture
Click to expand...

It's not as good as Schilder, but most of Schilder's stuff is still in Dutch. BUt it is a great intro to Schilder and it will help make sense of the argument in Christ and Culture.
 
Can you recommend any podcasts, sermon audios, or any other audio for this stuff?
 
Stope said:
Can you recommend any podcasts, sermon audios, or any other audio for this stuff?
Click to expand...
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=41131323494

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=41131319241

https://bavinckinstitute.org/2016/10/updated-bavinck-audio/

http://www.buzzsprout.com/3449/222528-christian-culture-ruin-and-restoration

and with fear and trembling, here is an audio sunday school class I did on the cultural mandate. It isn't Neo-Calvinism, per se, nor had I read Schilder at this time, but it's the same idea. Ignore the redneck accent.
https://negatingthevoid.wordpress.com/2017/07/12/old-audio-lectures-of-mine/
 
ReformedReidian said:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=41131323494

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=41131319241

https://bavinckinstitute.org/2016/10/updated-bavinck-audio/

http://www.buzzsprout.com/3449/222528-christian-culture-ruin-and-restoration

and with fear and trembling, here is an audio sunday school class I did on the cultural mandate. It isn't Neo-Calvinism, per se, nor had I read Schilder at this time, but it's the same idea. Ignore the redneck accent.
https://negatingthevoid.wordpress.com/2017/07/12/old-audio-lectures-of-mine/
Click to expand...

Thanks! Listened to them all save the buzzsprout one. I thought yours was great and clear (the Psalms references were cool).

I think my combined questions now are:
1. What is the role of the mandate given Moses in connection with the mandate given Adam and what applies to us post fall?
2. It was said that the first step in redeeming culture is to preach the Gospel. How does that work?
3. What are the top 3 main texts, the default, go-tos, for Neo-Calvinisim 101? I thought it might be Kuypers Stone Lectures and Im almost done with those but they arent that compelling save a few nuggets here and there (I think this because so many have summed up Kuyper and I have read those and those are compelling). So is there a one stop shop review?
 
Stope said:
Thanks! Listened to them all save the buzzsprout one. I thought yours was great and clear (the Psalms references were cool).

I think my combined questions now are:
1. What is the role of the mandate given Moses in connection with the mandate given Adam and what applies to us post fall?
2. It was said that the first step in redeeming culture is to preach the Gospel. How does that work?
3. What are the top 3 main texts, the default, go-tos, for Neo-Calvinisim 101? I thought it might be Kuypers Stone Lectures and Im almost done with those but they arent that compelling save a few nuggets here and there (I think this because so many have summed up Kuyper and I have read those and those are compelling). So is there a one stop shop review?
Click to expand...

~1. What about Moses? Psalm 8 reaffirms the Cultural Mandate (and Hebrews endorses Psalm 8).
~2. If there is no repentance then a redeemed culture is impossible. How to do it? Be faithful in your task. I am not a minister so I don't preach from the pulpit, but I engage in activities that would take this thread far afield.
~3. The Stone Lectures are overrated. Kuyper was a great rhetorician, but anything he said Bavinck said better. I will see what I can do on a one step review.
 
ReformedReidian said:
~1. What about Moses? Psalm 8 reaffirms the Cultural Mandate (and Hebrews endorses Psalm 8).
~2. If there is no repentance then a redeemed culture is impossible. How to do it? Be faithful in your task. I am not a minister so I don't preach from the pulpit, but I engage in activities that would take this thread far afield.
~3. The Stone Lectures are overrated. Kuyper was a great rhetorician, but anything he said Bavinck said better. I will see what I can do on a one step review.
Click to expand...
Thanks!

And I meant to ask not about Moses, but the mandate given to Noah?
 
Also, I heard you reference Horton. I thought he was a 2 Kingdoms guy? Where does he stand on Neo-Calvinism?
 
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