OK, I'm an idiot...

[Marrow Man]

I went to the local food bank today to drop off some canned goods and such from our church. The older gentleman who met me at the door was friendly and asked which church the goods were from. When I said, "Midlane Park Presbyterian Church" as I always do (the food ministry is directly behind the Midlane Park Baptist Church, which stole our church's name a few decades ago, but that's another story for another day ), he sort of lit up and asked, "What's the difference between that kind of Presbyterian and PC(USA)?" (we're ARP). I guess I was feeling kind of snarky today and didn't weigh my answer carefully. I simply said, "We're conservative and they're not" or something like that. He asked what I meant, and I said we believe the Bible.

Well, you've probably guessed it by now: he's PC(USA). I'm sure I offended him, but he was friendly enough, I discussed that I had a PC(USA) background and knew of some of the struggles, mentioned that the ARP and the Southern Presbyterians (of which history he was familiar) were close knit for much of their history in this country, etc. Actually, in retrospect, I think he was actually trying to make sure that we were not part of the EPC, as he was apparently familiar with the New Wineskins initiative and the fact that the PC(USA) is losing churches to the EPC. He told me the church he attends, and I know it is a pretty liberal church (female pastor and they advertise on their website that they admit homosexuals to the Lord's Supper).

I went over the episode in my mind and how my mouth responded before by brain kicked into gear. In the future, I would probably first ask, "How much do you know about Presbyterianism" or something like that. Have any of you had a similar experience (especially PCAers and OPCers) and how did you handle it?

 

[fredtgreco]

Tim,

I understand that challenge and difficulty. The short answer for me is, I always try and focus on the positive, rather than the negative. Far too often, we conservative Presbyterians are more than content to simply slam the liberal PCUSA instead of talking up the virtues of our own ministry. rather than saying that we are what other churches are not, I talk about the things that we are doing in the community. I hope that helps some.

 

[Marrow Man]

What makes it worse, Fred, is that Louisville is a very Roman Catholic town as well (obviously there are many PC(USA) churches here as there is a seminary and headquarters for the denomination here). I tend to be very sensitive in explaining things to RC folks, but for some reason I pulled a major brain freeze this morning. The Lord is teaching me to watch my mouth and my foolish arrogance, I'm sure.

Part of my unconscious reaction is that the ARP may be moving, very soon, to completely severing all ties with the PC(USA). Even though we are not allied with them in the same way as we are with the PCA, OPC, RPCNA, and EPC. It's more of a cordial relationship where we send them a friendly letter each year. That may (or may not) be ending soon. I suspect a lengthy discussion on this at presbytery next week. Some of that is probably spilling over.

 

[Grymir]

I'm PCUSA, and I would have said the same thing that you did. I did like your insight into what question to ask first. In my own denomination, I tend to go for the jugular, because I need to know peoples views, especially when it comes to those in leadership.

 

[Craig]

In the future, I would probably first ask, "How much do you know about Presbyterianism" or something like that. Have any of you had a similar experience (especially PCAers and OPCers) and how did you handle it?

I think that's a good rule for the future. Currently, I have little to explain when it comes to differences...I always refer to my church as "Christ the Word Church"...of course, when Presbyterian's in your name, then you'll get that question more often...that happened more frequently when living in Kalamazoo. Our church there was "Community Presbyterian" (an OPC congregation).

 

[Herald]

If he asked for the difference between the two I would have centered the emphasis on the gospel (I know, the Baptist in me rearing its ugly head). That may have taken denominational distinctives out of the mix and focused on Christ.

 

[Marrow Man]

Currently, I have little to explain when it comes to differences...I always refer to my church as "Christ the Word Church"...of course, when Presbyterian's in your name, then you'll get that question more often...that happened more frequently when living in Kalamazoo. Our church there was "Community Presbyterian" (an OPC congregation).

Well, I used to say that if you told folks you were Associate Reformed Presbyterian, that was a guarantee that you would have yourself a 5-10 conversation, as it'd take that long just to explain what ARP means!

Of course, I managed to parry the history down to about 2 minutes, so it doesn't take nearly as long. And people's eyes don't glaze over halfway through either!

 

[Marrow Man]

If he asked for the difference between the two I would have centered the emphasis on the gospel (I know, the Baptist in me rearing its ugly head). That may have taken denominational distinctives out of the mix and focused on Christ.

Yes, you are correct, and this is a wise observation. Perhaps a good opportunity to present the gospel was missed because of such nuances. In a sense, I was trying to emphasis the authority of Scripture (rather than simply give a different flavor of polity) to him, but I didn't do a good job at all.

 

[Herald]

If he asked for the difference between the two I would have centered the emphasis on the gospel (I know, the Baptist in me rearing its ugly head). That may have taken denominational distinctives out of the mix and focused on Christ.

Yes, you are correct, and this is a wise observation. Perhaps a good opportunity to present the gospel was missed because of such nuances. In a sense, I was trying to emphasis the authority of Scripture (rather than simply give a different flavor of polity) to him, but I didn't do a good job at all.

Ah, but out God is sovereign above all. By championing the supremacy of scripture it may serve to give this gentleman pause as to what is going on in his church. Brother, God has glorified Himself often through my bumbling and stumbling.

 

[Webservant]

I went over the episode in my mind and how my mouth responded before by brain kicked into gear. In the future, I would probably first ask, "How much do you know about Presbyterianism" or something like that. Have any of you had a similar experience (especially PCAers and OPCers) and how did you handle it?

Sometimes it works the other way, too. I was at a street fair in Hamilton, a suburb of Baltimore City, when a kindly old man walked up to me, tried to hand me a tract, and asked me if I go to a church. I told him I did, and that I went to a Presbyterian Church. Then I stopped and said, "PCA, that is". He smiled and said, "Yeah, you don't ever want to go to one of those PCUSA churches. They're nothing but liberals.". Sensing something was fishy, I offered him my hand and introduced myself. He started laughing and introduced himself - as the pastor of the PCUSA church 25 feet away from where I was standing. Turns out his daughter and my wife grew up together, and that his congregation is actually pretty conservative.

 

[Marrow Man]

That's a good story, Rich!