newcreature
Puritan Board Freshman
What! Microchip? I thought the mark was 666! What with all this evil technology?
Obamacare & The Mark of the Beast
- Thread starter jandrusk
- Start date
- Status
Unoriginalname
Puritan Board Junior
I know of a few hospitals that use that sort of thing for ID badges and IV poles. It is quite helpful because you can actually see if a nurse checked in on a patient and also locate an IV pole.
Alan D. Strange
Puritan Board Senior
Just for the record, of course, I know that the man's name in the film is "Mr. Chips," short, if I recall correctly (many years since I've seen that film) for "Chipping."
But thanks, Randy, for chipping in, especially when the chips are down. I am feeling rather chipper this morning. I suppose someone of the regular clergy who submitted to the microchip injection would be a chip-monk.
I must go before I am permanently banned from this board!
Peace,
Alan
But thanks, Randy, for chipping in, especially when the chips are down. I am feeling rather chipper this morning. I suppose someone of the regular clergy who submitted to the microchip injection would be a chip-monk.
I must go before I am permanently banned from this board!
Peace,
Alan
Zach
Puritan Board Senior
Just for the record, of course, I know that the man's name in the film is "Mr. Chips," short, if I recall correctly (many years since I've seen that film) for "Chipping."
But thanks, Randy, for chipping in, especially when the chips are down. I am feeling rather chipper this morning. I suppose someone of the regular clergy who submitted to the microchip injection would be a chip-monk.
I must go before I am permanently banned from this board!
Peace,
Alan
Reminds me of the old one about the Priests who opened a fish and chip stand. One was the Fish Friar and the other was the Chip Monk.
Fly Caster
Puritan Board Sophomore
The article has the appearance of sensationalism, but assuming for a moment that it were true--
I don't think one would have to be a Dispensationalist to see it as "A" mark of "A" Beast ....
I don't think one would have to be a Dispensationalist to see it as "A" mark of "A" Beast ....
Jerusalem Blade
Puritan Board Professor
I wrote this to a friend recently who was enquiring about said chips:
------
With regard to the implanting of a micro-chip under the skin of the hand or forehead, and this being the "mark of the beast" of Revelation 13: a good interpretive approach to understanding that book is that almost everything in it should be understandable to and applicable to the churches in the first century (and early second), for it was initially written to them (the seven letters of chapters 2 and 3, for example). The Lord gave the prophecy of Revelation to comfort the young churches, many of whom were under persecution of some sort by the Roman authorities or their proxies in the local governments of Asia Minor, or the local trade guilds. Back then slaves were often branded or tattooed on the forehead or hand as a sign of ownership, so it was understood back then that such a mark meant one was owned by someone. But it should also be considered symbolically, even for those who were not branded or marked somehow: a “mark on the forehead” would signify one's thoughts and mental allegiance was given to a certain person or entity; a “mark on the hand” would signify one's actions were in behalf of that person or entity. So a person who gave their allegiance – both in their minds and by their actions – to the "beast" of the Roman Empire (a persecuting antichristian government) would be considered in the sight of God to have the mark of the beast, and to be its follower, even if they had no outward mark. God, on the other hand, did not "mark" His people, but set a seal upon them of protection and ownership; this mark is also invisible – but God sees it! There is a big difference between the mark of the beast and the seal of God!
My point is, what is written in the book of Revelation would have to make sense to the churches John wrote to, and micro-chips would not have been understood in the 1st and 2nd centuries. The relevance of the book to the early church cannot be ignored, even though it certainly will also have relevance to the church up through the ages. Now is it possible that – accepting what I have already written about the early church – a government could require the implanting of such chips in our day? It is possible, and the technology does exist. The RFID technology is being pushed by some. However, if one thinks that having a chip is the only way to have the mark of the beast, then one has been deceived into looking out for the wrong thing – for one may not have a chip and yet have the mark of the beast in their mental allegiance and their actions! There is a danger in thinking it is only the literal thing and not the often unseen realities of the heart and actions!
Every Christian, having read Revelation, will be wary of ever receiving an implantable chip. However, if one does receive one, and then believes it an offense to God, He will very likely be able to just have it cut out and removed. You are right when you say that a chip does not cancel our salvation by Christ – nothing can separate us from Him, or snatch us out of His hand. Though His followers will be very careful about where our true allegiance lies, and what signs we may give that confirms or denies it. Back in the Roman days, the authorities would make one burn incense to Caesar and call him Lord – and this was understood by the church as in one's heart taking the mark of the beast. Some professing Christians – from fear of death or torture – would deny Christ and sacrifice to Caesar, but later repent. The churches had different views of this: some would forgive and receive such again, and some would not. We need to be on guard so as not to betray our Lord in a moment of weakness. While there is repentance, some Christians will be doubtful as to its sincerity. Especially if those who did not deny Christ paid with their lives. Some who did deny, and later repented, went back to the authorities and said they were Christians after all – and paid the price (but were glad they did).
There may be some things in Revelation that were not at all clear to the early churches, such as things pertaining to the end of the last days – which may be the times we're in now (not stating that dogmatically, though). There was a manifestation of Babylon then (Rome, and also the God-opposing cultures), and there is a present-day manifestation. As the time draws nearer to the end, we may have insights into the symbols of Revelation that they did not have then.
------
With regard to the implanting of a micro-chip under the skin of the hand or forehead, and this being the "mark of the beast" of Revelation 13: a good interpretive approach to understanding that book is that almost everything in it should be understandable to and applicable to the churches in the first century (and early second), for it was initially written to them (the seven letters of chapters 2 and 3, for example). The Lord gave the prophecy of Revelation to comfort the young churches, many of whom were under persecution of some sort by the Roman authorities or their proxies in the local governments of Asia Minor, or the local trade guilds. Back then slaves were often branded or tattooed on the forehead or hand as a sign of ownership, so it was understood back then that such a mark meant one was owned by someone. But it should also be considered symbolically, even for those who were not branded or marked somehow: a “mark on the forehead” would signify one's thoughts and mental allegiance was given to a certain person or entity; a “mark on the hand” would signify one's actions were in behalf of that person or entity. So a person who gave their allegiance – both in their minds and by their actions – to the "beast" of the Roman Empire (a persecuting antichristian government) would be considered in the sight of God to have the mark of the beast, and to be its follower, even if they had no outward mark. God, on the other hand, did not "mark" His people, but set a seal upon them of protection and ownership; this mark is also invisible – but God sees it! There is a big difference between the mark of the beast and the seal of God!
My point is, what is written in the book of Revelation would have to make sense to the churches John wrote to, and micro-chips would not have been understood in the 1st and 2nd centuries. The relevance of the book to the early church cannot be ignored, even though it certainly will also have relevance to the church up through the ages. Now is it possible that – accepting what I have already written about the early church – a government could require the implanting of such chips in our day? It is possible, and the technology does exist. The RFID technology is being pushed by some. However, if one thinks that having a chip is the only way to have the mark of the beast, then one has been deceived into looking out for the wrong thing – for one may not have a chip and yet have the mark of the beast in their mental allegiance and their actions! There is a danger in thinking it is only the literal thing and not the often unseen realities of the heart and actions!
Every Christian, having read Revelation, will be wary of ever receiving an implantable chip. However, if one does receive one, and then believes it an offense to God, He will very likely be able to just have it cut out and removed. You are right when you say that a chip does not cancel our salvation by Christ – nothing can separate us from Him, or snatch us out of His hand. Though His followers will be very careful about where our true allegiance lies, and what signs we may give that confirms or denies it. Back in the Roman days, the authorities would make one burn incense to Caesar and call him Lord – and this was understood by the church as in one's heart taking the mark of the beast. Some professing Christians – from fear of death or torture – would deny Christ and sacrifice to Caesar, but later repent. The churches had different views of this: some would forgive and receive such again, and some would not. We need to be on guard so as not to betray our Lord in a moment of weakness. While there is repentance, some Christians will be doubtful as to its sincerity. Especially if those who did not deny Christ paid with their lives. Some who did deny, and later repented, went back to the authorities and said they were Christians after all – and paid the price (but were glad they did).
There may be some things in Revelation that were not at all clear to the early churches, such as things pertaining to the end of the last days – which may be the times we're in now (not stating that dogmatically, though). There was a manifestation of Babylon then (Rome, and also the God-opposing cultures), and there is a present-day manifestation. As the time draws nearer to the end, we may have insights into the symbols of Revelation that they did not have then.
Last edited:
Reformed Elder
Puritan Board Freshman
Well said Steve! It seems to me that all the dispensational racket comes as a failure to remember that this book was written for the 1st century church (and for all the "last day" churches - Acts 2:17, Peter quoting Joel). I would also include Paul's letters to the Thessalonian church as well (i.e. 2 Thess. 2:5-6). Having been a pre-trib, Dispensational I am constantly having to bring my mind and heart back to the context of writer and the people that he was writing to. by doing this we will prevent ourselves from get carried away with "conspiracies" that stretch God's Word to an interpretation unknown to the recipients. I suppose if John was somewhat confused and wondering as he recorded these "inspirations" we too must keep humble in our approach to the wonders of God's "last day" revelations. Again, thank you Steve for the reminder.
If pres. Obama did try to make such a thing compulsory, I don't think you even need to invoke Revelation; refuse on the grounds that it would be a totally unacceptable and meddlesome invasion of privacy.
So far as I know David Cameron's thoughts are not moving that way (all his attention being taken up at the moment trying to force gay "marriage" on us) but i hope he would recall the sort of dumb obstinacy that tends to meet proposals for compulsory ID cards here, and think better of it.
So far as I know David Cameron's thoughts are not moving that way (all his attention being taken up at the moment trying to force gay "marriage" on us) but i hope he would recall the sort of dumb obstinacy that tends to meet proposals for compulsory ID cards here, and think better of it.
MarieP
Puritan Board Senior
I dreamed about this last night- it was to expedite the wait that people were having at a doctor's office of the future- you could get temperature, blood pressure, etc. from scanning the chip. Some of us from church were having a Bible study with some dispensationalists who were sitting outside the place protesting the people getting the chip.
The dream came from a mixture of this thread and my grandparents- Papaw is recovering from having a broken ankle that had to be fitted with a surgical plate, and my Mamaw is recovering from heart valve replacement surgery. They could use your prayers- Mamaw is now out of the hospital at a rehab place for a week and is doing wonderfully. Papae is at home trying to deal with being sedentary- he's never really been sick or infirm all his life! The worst part is the prospect of not getting to help his wife!
The dream came from a mixture of this thread and my grandparents- Papaw is recovering from having a broken ankle that had to be fitted with a surgical plate, and my Mamaw is recovering from heart valve replacement surgery. They could use your prayers- Mamaw is now out of the hospital at a rehab place for a week and is doing wonderfully. Papae is at home trying to deal with being sedentary- he's never really been sick or infirm all his life! The worst part is the prospect of not getting to help his wife!
Pilgrim
Puritanboard Commissioner
Hasn't anyone told them that it's only those who are "Left Behind" who will be faced with taking the mark in the dispensational scheme? (I'm not a betting man but I'd bet that most would scratch their head at the mention of the word dispensationalism. 
) It's an interesting phenomenon and and an example of what I call American folk religion.
Sadly, it seems that many are much more interested in theories about the antichrist and the mark than they are about truly knowing and following the Lord Jesus Christ.
) It's an interesting phenomenon and and an example of what I call American folk religion.Sadly, it seems that many are much more interested in theories about the antichrist and the mark than they are about truly knowing and following the Lord Jesus Christ.
Last edited:
newcreature
Puritan Board Freshman
Marie, praying for your Mamaw and Papaw.
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
You bet! The forums I used to be a part of post nothing but discernment website articles (showing the apostasy is here) and news stories on the middle east conflicts! It is a good place to get updated information though lol
Jesus is my friend
Puritan Board Junior
Revelation 13:16-14:11 (King James Version)
I am shocked at some of the responses,I will grant that the article at the beginning of the thread was poorly written and much of Dispensationalism is poorly exegeted,and yes worthy of strong criticism using scripture to interpret other scripture,I'm all about that guys,however,there are multitiudes of Christians that might not be reformed,but they arent all fools and morons,I'm sorry I don't have time to argue my point at length,but I must ask respectfully in love to ask my family here to reconsider based solely on His Word,that,at the very least it is a possibility,that this "chip",or whatever this thing is could perhaps be the mark of the beast that God used John to warn us about,I am not this guy:
and solid as I can be in my interpretation and ask for respect for those of us like John MacArthur and myself that are deeply concerned that the scripture be respected and considered in this very important passage,and I would warn anyone not to take some sort of mark,chip as this could be the a sign of God's judgment upon a person,many responses are good just please respectfully consider the passage in context and reconsider-Thanks so much
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
I am shocked at some of the responses,I will grant that the article at the beginning of the thread was poorly written and much of Dispensationalism is poorly exegeted,and yes worthy of strong criticism using scripture to interpret other scripture,I'm all about that guys,however,there are multitiudes of Christians that might not be reformed,but they arent all fools and morons,I'm sorry I don't have time to argue my point at length,but I must ask respectfully in love to ask my family here to reconsider based solely on His Word,that,at the very least it is a possibility,that this "chip",or whatever this thing is could perhaps be the mark of the beast that God used John to warn us about,I am not this guy:
and solid as I can be in my interpretation and ask for respect for those of us like John MacArthur and myself that are deeply concerned that the scripture be respected and considered in this very important passage,and I would warn anyone not to take some sort of mark,chip as this could be the a sign of God's judgment upon a person,many responses are good just please respectfully consider the passage in context and reconsider-Thanks so much16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
I think I figured out the source of this story -- on the day this first posted, a Google search didn't come up with any of the reported "facts" in the blog.
The Wall Street Journal reports that an honors high school is requiring students to wear an ID with an embedded chip that gives a student's location within the school and will automatically generate an attendance record. It does not operate off school grounds. A girl is suing saying she is an evangelical Christian, believes this is the mark of the beast, and that wearing it submits her to ungodly authority. I can possibly see a search issue in this, but a freedom-of-religion problem? Someone needs to tell that student that she submitted to pagan authority when she enrolled in the school.
Here's another link (WSJ was being difficult about sharing the link)
The Wall Street Journal reports that an honors high school is requiring students to wear an ID with an embedded chip that gives a student's location within the school and will automatically generate an attendance record. It does not operate off school grounds. A girl is suing saying she is an evangelical Christian, believes this is the mark of the beast, and that wearing it submits her to ungodly authority. I can possibly see a search issue in this, but a freedom-of-religion problem? Someone needs to tell that student that she submitted to pagan authority when she enrolled in the school.
Here's another link (WSJ was being difficult about sharing the link)
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
