NIP - Nursing in Public

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AThornquist

Puritan Board Doctor
This doesn't apply to me, but there are certainly people who have been sexualized to the point of "seeing past family ties." It's like the mind disregards one's age, relationship, etc. and focuses only on sexual gratification. The same concept applies with people who struggle with pedophilia.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
...When was anyone else blamed for sins?

-----Added 12/10/2008 at 03:49:53 EST-----

So if I can program my brain to not be sexually aroused when seeing certain women, I can program my brain to control my thoughts about other women as well.
So I can just reprogram all of the areas I struggle with and be perfect... who knew it was so easy?
Tim said....

Don't get me wrong, Jamal. I defend your right to do it. Anywhere. All I meant is that a nice looking woman who does it in front of most men will without a blanket will cause them to lust, whether it should or it shouldn't. And as far as breasts being sexualized, there's great truth to that. But reading the Song of Solomon I don't think anyone would deny that at least some of that sexual attraction is hard wired into us men.
If we cannot stop ourselves from sinning (not saying every time), then why would God even bother giving us moral guidelines if it is impossible to even follow at least once?

Also what about John 8:11, "Go your way and sin no more"

If I was to post a picture of Jesus, most here would immediately attempt to delete it. Are you saying that you have the ability to not sin in one area, but not in another area? Come on. Is it a struggle? Yes. Is it hard? Yes. Are we able to overcome sin through Christ? Absolutely.

-----Added 12/10/2008 at 04:09:19 EST-----

This doesn't apply to me, but there are certainly people who have been sexualized to the point of "seeing past family ties." It's like the mind disregards one's age, relationship, etc. and focuses only on sexual gratification. The same concept applies with people who struggle with pedophilia.
Ok. Don't think about the perverted desires of some. Think about yourself. You have decided to not lust about your mom. Why is it that you cannot decide to stop lusting about another woman?
 

Wannabee

Obi Wan Kenobi
Any who claim that they can't help sinning are basically throwing out the commands of God and denying Scripture. We all can resist any sin, period. We've condition ourselves not to in many instances.

Consider 1 Corinthians 10:12-13 - all temptation is common to man. God will provide escape.

Consider 1 John - most of it - if you're God's you will habitually obey His commandments.

2 Corinthians 10:4-6
4For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.


To claim anything else is to subscribe to the victim mentality that psychobabble has foisted upon our society. Biblically speaking, the most sexy and gorgeous naked woman in the world should be able to walk, in a taunting manner, in front of a group of young Christian men and illicit no sinful thoughts whatsoever. What the men should be thinking is something along the lines of, "Has nobody shared Christ with her?" "Does she recognize the peril she's in?" "Is there anything I can do to help her know Christ?" "Here, you need my coat." "Gentlemen, let's pray." Or some other response that is more concerned over her soul than any hormonal surge or personal gratification. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying that any claim that we can't endure is a lie and "exalts itself agaisnt the knowledge of God."
Comparisons with those who stumble are useless. Our comparison is Christ; our desire is to emulate Him in all things; and our ability to do so is only found in His strength.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
So if I can program my brain to not be sexually aroused when seeing certain women, I can program my brain to control my thoughts about other women as well
. I'm sorry, not to be crude but what if you had a hot sister... I think your body would respond the same way.... it's like rape victims that have guilt if/when their bodies "react" to the assult.

I sorry, but you are wrong. I accidentally saw my mom naked a few years ago. It was in no way shape or form a sexual arousal. It was quite disgusting.
 

TimV

Puritanboard Botanist
If we cannot stop ourselves from sinning (not saying every time), then why would God even bother giving us moral guidelines if it is impossible to even follow at least once?
And that's what your missing. In 1Tim 2:9 it says
In like manner also for the women to adorn themselves in modest dress, with regard for others and sober-mindedness
because God did bother to give women moral guidelines to help us keep those He outlined for us men.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Any who claim that they can't help sinning are basically throwing out the commands of God and denying Scripture. We all can resist any sin, period. We've condition ourselves not to in many instances.

Consider 1 Corinthians 10:12-13 - all temptation is common to man. God will provide escape.

Consider 1 John - most of it - if you're God's you will habitually obey His commandments.

2 Corinthians 10:4-6
4For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.


To claim anything else is to subscribe to the victim mentality that psychobabble has foisted upon our society. Biblically speaking, the most sexy and gorgeous naked woman in the world should be able to walk, in a taunting manner, in front of a group of young Christian men and illicit no sinful thoughts whatsoever. What the men should be thinking is something along the lines of, "Has nobody shared Christ with her?" "Does she recognize the peril she's in?" "Is there anything I can do to help her know Christ?" "Here, you need my coat." "Gentlemen, let's pray." Or some other response that is more concerned over her soul than any hormonal surge or personal gratification. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying that any claim that we can't endure is a lie and "exalts itself agaisnt the knowledge of God."
Comparisons with those who stumble are useless. Our comparison is Christ; our desire is to emulate Him in all things; and our ability to do so is only found in His strength.
:amen::amen::amen:

-----Added 12/10/2008 at 04:18:43 EST-----

If we cannot stop ourselves from sinning (not saying every time), then why would God even bother giving us moral guidelines if it is impossible to even follow at least once?
And that's what your missing. In 1Tim 2:9 it says
In like manner also for the women to adorn themselves in modest dress, with regard for others and sober-mindedness
because God did bother to give women moral guidelines to help us keep those He outlined for us men.
I am not saying whether she is right or wrong. I am saying you cannot blame her for your thoughts.
 

Wannabee

Obi Wan Kenobi
We have to be careful not to place the man's sin in the lap of the woman. This is just plain wrong. It is thoroughly unbiblical. We are each individually guilty and culpable for our own sin, period. We can consider one another. We can help one another. And we can be instruments in one another's temptation. But nobody can cause another person to sin, period. The idea is foreign to Scripture.
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
I find this argument an extreme cop out. Just because I find my wife's breast alluring does not mean that every set of boobs will cause me to sin.

Real men need to step up to the plate and say I refuse to allow my mind to wander.

I cannot control what goes on in your mind, but you can.
Not everyone is wired like you Boliver. It is not a cop out. Some have allowed such sin into their lives during youth that certain thought patterns are inevitable during certain times. As a chaplain in the military you will need to become more understanding.

I personally wouldn't want another man to see my nakedness. My wife's breasts are mine to see and mine alone.... as much as possible. That is if I was still married.

Edit addition for clarification.

Let me clarify the as much as possible thing... I meant to communicate that a wife's and mans nakedness is to be seen between them as the situations go. Doctors need to examine and sometimes there are other situations where a persons nakedness may be revealed that is unavoidable.

It is a cop out to blame someone else for their sins. If I choose to think lustfully it is my fault. It is not anyone else's fault. I cannot tell God, "the devil made me do it" or "well even you had not blessed her physically...."

It just does not fly.

-----Added 12/10/2008 at 03:46:57 EST-----

I thought about this situation the entire ride home from work today and some of the thought patterns stated here are really blowing my mind.

It is the same thing as saying that it was the young lady's fault that she was raped because of what she wore. It was not her fault at all.


Also LadyFlynt was making the point a while back that society causes our reactions to nudity and I agree. To prove my point, think of your mom, sister, or even grandma buck naked. Isn't too pleasing is it? Why? because society tells us that it is wrong to be attracted to our family members. So if I can program my brain to not be sexually aroused when seeing certain women, I can program my brain to control my thoughts about other women as well.
Boliver,

Scripture puts a high standard for nakedness and the revealing of it on a level that does even bring a curse. And yes, some women and men can be overly provocative and become stumbling blocks for which there is a stern warning against such. And if you think you are above this I would caution you with a warning since you stand so strong.

(1Co 10:12) Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
I have seen many fall who thought they had a grip on this. Their pride brought them low. It sounds like you don't know yourself very good and that you can read your own heart. I recommend you read John Owen on Sin and Temptation. One thing a person does is stay away from things that make him stumble. And this may be one of those things. To deny this is dangerous. A young man may not be as inclined as you seem to be and have struggles in his heart. His way of escape would to be avoid any encounter such as seeing another womans breast in any situation. And this forcing of others to be in the same room with a breast feeder would be a violation of his conscience and purity.

I would also commend you to Romans 12:1-3

(Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(Rom 12:3) For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Boliver,

Scripture puts a high standard for nakedness and the revealing of it on a level that does even bring a curse. And yes, some women and men can be overly provocative and become stumbling blocks for which there is a stern warning against such. And if you think you are above this I would caution you with a warning since you stand so strong.


Quote:
(1Co 10:12) Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

I have seen many fall who thought they had a grip on this. Their pride brought them low. It sounds like you don't know yourself very good and that you can read your own heart. I recommend you read John Owen on Sin and Temptation. One thing a person does is stay away from things that make him stumble. And this may be one of those things. To deny this is dangerous. A young man may not be as inclined as you seem to be and have struggles in his heart. His way of escape would to be avoid any encounter such as seeing another womans breast in any situation. And this forcing of others to be in the same room with a breast feeder would be a violation of his conscience and purity.

I would also commend you to Romans 12:1-3


Quote:
(Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

(Rom 12:3) For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Staying away from dangerous situations is a good thing. I would not deny that. But I do not know of any woman who makes sure to sit in front of other men and "pops it out." Therefore these men do not have it staring them in the face. It may be off to the side or something, but there is nothing requiring these men to look in the direction of the mother.

I have never said that I do not ever struggle with lust. I am saying that if I make a mistake, I recognize that it is I who have sinned and that I need forgiveness. I never shake my head and say, " oh well it was her fault."
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Staying away from dangerous situations is a good thing. I would not deny that. But I do not know of any woman who makes sure to sit in front of other men and "pops it out." Therefore these men do not have it staring them in the face. It may be off to the side or something, but there is nothing requiring these men to look in the direction of the mother.

I have never said that I do not ever struggle with lust. I am saying that if I make a mistake, I recognize that it is I who have sinned and that I need forgiveness. I never shake my head and say, " oh well it was her fault."
We all own our own sin. But sometimes there are contributing factors to it. And one not need be a contributing factor. That is my point. And you as well as others would do well to understand this.
 

Jon Lake

Puritan Board Sophomore
My sister had a friend who was one of these natural "open" types, I was staying with her once and went to the kitchen to get cup of coffee, her friend was in there nursing, well....she simply had on a plain T-shirt (forget shirts with the flaps for her, as I said very much a natural sort) so she had it lifted where...both were uncovered!:eek::eek::eek: OK, friends, I looked at my coffee, I looked at the ceiling, I looked at the floor (in short I wanted to get my caffeine and escape), I almost had it when she said " Just LOOK at this little one! Have you EVER seen one so cute, or hungry!" Well the cup slipped from my fingers and I excused myself with, "Excuse Susan, I think I have a scald." I went and sent Sis to clean up she told me not to be a baby and grow up. About, 5 minutes later, she came to the media room I had escaped to with the words, "WOW! Sorry brother, that was more than I expected or wanted to see!" I guess my point is OK it is natural, yes, wonderful, but if you see a guy drop hot coffee and retreat....you might think about covering things up just a little bit more. Thats just my...:2cents:
 

ReformedWretch

Puritan Board Doctor
I'm glad when I see it in the West because it means that the West is moving from their fascination with the bottle and giving their kids a healthier life.
I was bottle fed, and never had any health troubles. My immune system is just fine, and I RARELY get sick. Not arguing, just saying that that notion doesn't always bear true. I know some sickly kids who were breastfed.
ABSOLUTELY!! Same here.
 

Wannabee

Obi Wan Kenobi
We all own our own sin. But sometimes there are contributing factors to it. And one not need be a contributing factor. That is my point. And you as well as others would do well to understand this.
I think your last point was taken Randy. But there were comments that clearly appeared to be claiming that it was a woman's fault if she wasn't discrete or considerate of a brother. That's simply not true. She is culpable before God for her sin, even if she's a stumbling block. But, from the man's perspective, his culpability is his own. What was said seemed to deny that, and elicited a reaction - what I thought was a good reaction.
 

Honor

de-cool
So if I can program my brain to not be sexually aroused when seeing certain women, I can program my brain to control my thoughts about other women as well
. I'm sorry, not to be crude but what if you had a hot sister... I think your body would respond the same way.... it's like rape victims that have guilt if/when their bodies "react" to the assult.

I sorry, but you are wrong. I accidentally saw my mom naked a few years ago. It was in no way shape or form a sexual arousal. It was quite disgusting.
dude I said sister not mom and if some guys didn't get their jollys' then why does the Bible have to spell it out "it is wrong to sleep with your mom" (Jessica's version)
 

AThornquist

Puritan Board Doctor
Are you saying that you have the ability to not sin in one area, but not in another area? Come on. Is it a struggle? Yes. Is it hard? Yes. Are we able to overcome sin through Christ? Absolutely.
Oh, come on. Like I said, people struggle with certain sins more than other kinds. I'm not sure how that equates to your initial question. :rolleyes: Of course I have the ability to overcome sin through Christ. The difference is, I don't struggle at all with not cursing, but I do struggle with lust. Thus, I struggle with one sin more than another kind.

Ok. Don't think about the perverted desires of some. Think about yourself. You have decided to not lust about your mom. Why is it that you cannot decide to stop lusting about another woman?
Sorry. I'm so used to not using myself as the standard for mankind. There are people who might be different than me. And I can decide to not lust about another woman. That is not the same as not lusting about my mother though, since lusting over this "other woman" wouldn't engage my gag reflex.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
My sister had a friend who was one of these natural "open" types, I was staying with her once and went to the kitchen to get cup of coffee, her friend was in there nursing, well....she simply had on a plain T-shirt (forget shirts with the flaps for her, as I said very much a natural sort) so she had it lifted where...both were uncovered!:eek::eek::eek: OK, friends, I looked at my coffee, I looked at the ceiling, I looked at the floor (in short I wanted to get my caffeine and escape), I almost had it when she said " Just LOOK at this little one! Have you EVER seen one so cute, or hungry!" Well the cup slipped from my fingers and I excused myself with, "Excuse Susan, I think I have a scald." I went and sent Sis to clean up she told me not to be a baby and grow up. About, 5 minutes later, she came to the media room I had escaped to with the words, "WOW! Sorry brother, that was more than I expected or wanted to see!" I guess my point is OK it is natural, yes, wonderful, but if you see a guy drop hot coffee and retreat....you might think about covering things up just a little bit more. Thats just my...:2cents:
Yikes...on behalf of crunchy mamas, I'm sorry.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
I think this is why it is important that we raise our children to have the PROPER view of things...what is sexual and what is not. Unfortunately, many of us were raised with a warped mentality about things. There can be extremism both ways..."oh it's natural, I'll just pop both of them out and you deal with it" and "you might cause a man to lust, nurse in a bathroom or give the kid formula" (not saying that anyone here is saying either...just examples, folks)
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Are you saying that you have the ability to not sin in one area, but not in another area? Come on. Is it a struggle? Yes. Is it hard? Yes. Are we able to overcome sin through Christ? Absolutely.
Oh, come on. Like I said, people struggle with certain sins more than other kinds. I'm not sure how that equates to your initial question. :rolleyes: Of course I have the ability to overcome sin through Christ. The difference is, I don't struggle at all with not cursing, but I do struggle with lust. Thus, I struggle with one sin more than another kind.

Ok. Don't think about the perverted desires of some. Think about yourself. You have decided to not lust about your mom. Why is it that you cannot decide to stop lusting about another woman?
Sorry. I'm so used to not using myself as the standard for mankind. There are people who might be different than me. And I can decide to not lust about another woman. That is not the same as not lusting about my mother though, since lusting over this "other woman" wouldn't engage my gag reflex.

I am not asking you to be the standard for mankind. I am saying look at yourself. If you can resist temptation in one area, then you can resist in other areas as well. I said nothing about difficulty. I said we can overcome.
 

jwithnell

Moderator
Staff member
Women should be able to nurse in most places, but with some discretion. I had a somewhat early baby who couldn't go much time between feedings, and we nursed just about everywhere. Usually his head was covered with a light receiving blanket.
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
what is a crunchy mamma?
Crunchy Mama = more of your natural, granola types. Of course there is a wide span and some are "crunchier" in certain areas than others...some are crunchy in some areas and not at all in others. But it's still the main idea of "more natural, granola type".

Here's a fun survey on it and don't take any score as an insult or as "better"...we're each different and have our different views. Also some people are unaware of certain options or issues.

How Crunchy Are you?
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
We all own our own sin. But sometimes there are contributing factors to it. And one not need be a contributing factor. That is my point. And you as well as others would do well to understand this.
I think your last point was taken Randy. But there were comments that clearly appeared to be claiming that it was a woman's fault if she wasn't discrete or considerate of a brother. That's simply not true. She is culpable before God for her sin, even if she's a stumbling block. But, from the man's perspective, his culpability is his own. What was said seemed to deny that, and elicited a reaction - what I thought was a good reaction.
Point taken but sometimes more than one persons share in a sin. And the other side of the coin wasn't being handled correctly.

Randy. But there were comments that clearly appeared to be claiming that it was a woman's fault if she wasn't discrete or considerate of a brother.
And a woman should be considerate of others. She should consider if she might be a stumbling block.

We all own our own sin but sometimes it has contributing factors. And that point was being brushed under the table.
 

Jon Lake

Puritan Board Sophomore
My sister had a friend who was one of these natural "open" types, I was staying with her once and went to the kitchen to get cup of coffee, her friend was in there nursing, well....she simply had on a plain T-shirt (forget shirts with the flaps for her, as I said very much a natural sort) so she had it lifted where...both were uncovered!:eek::eek::eek: OK, friends, I looked at my coffee, I looked at the ceiling, I looked at the floor (in short I wanted to get my caffeine and escape), I almost had it when she said " Just LOOK at this little one! Have you EVER seen one so cute, or hungry!" Well the cup slipped from my fingers and I excused myself with, "Excuse Susan, I think I have a scald." I went and sent Sis to clean up she told me not to be a baby and grow up. About, 5 minutes later, she came to the media room I had escaped to with the words, "WOW! Sorry brother, that was more than I expected or wanted to see!" I guess my point is OK it is natural, yes, wonderful, but if you see a guy drop hot coffee and retreat....you might think about covering things up just a little bit more. Thats just my...:2cents:
Yikes...on behalf of crunchy mamas, I'm sorry.
It's quite alright! I have pretty much recovered. I DID make the mistake of telling my wife.....who thinks it is the funniest thing that could happen to me....:p
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
My sister had a friend who was one of these natural "open" types, I was staying with her once and went to the kitchen to get cup of coffee, her friend was in there nursing, well....she simply had on a plain T-shirt (forget shirts with the flaps for her, as I said very much a natural sort) so she had it lifted where...both were uncovered!:eek::eek::eek: OK, friends, I looked at my coffee, I looked at the ceiling, I looked at the floor (in short I wanted to get my caffeine and escape), I almost had it when she said " Just LOOK at this little one! Have you EVER seen one so cute, or hungry!" Well the cup slipped from my fingers and I excused myself with, "Excuse Susan, I think I have a scald." I went and sent Sis to clean up she told me not to be a baby and grow up. About, 5 minutes later, she came to the media room I had escaped to with the words, "WOW! Sorry brother, that was more than I expected or wanted to see!" I guess my point is OK it is natural, yes, wonderful, but if you see a guy drop hot coffee and retreat....you might think about covering things up just a little bit more. Thats just my...:2cents:
Yikes...on behalf of crunchy mamas, I'm sorry.
It's quite alright! I have pretty much recovered. I DID make the mistake of telling my wife.....who thinks it is the funniest thing that could happen to me....:p
I'm afraid that one of the family jokes is something similar that I did to my BIL...but my confession includes a new nurse that gave me a double dose of demerol, having just given birth, and amnesia of the event until my MIL told me of it a week later. Yeah, that was one story she could have kept to herself, but I did call my BIL and apologise to him and reassured him that it would NEVER, EVER, EVER! happen again! :oops:
 

AThornquist

Puritan Board Doctor
I am not asking you to be the standard for mankind. I am saying look at yourself. If you can resist temptation in one area, then you can resist in other areas as well. I said nothing about difficulty. I said we can overcome.
...And I agree. I haven't said anything to the contrary. It seems like you've been arguing about overcoming while I'll been arguing about difficulty; in fact, I do agree with what you are saying. My entire point was that depending on how women expose themselves in the process of breastfeeding, it can be a stumbling block to some men. Yes, they can overcome the sin, but if a woman is free-boobin' it then the process of resisting sin becomes more difficult for some.
:detective:
 
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Honor

de-cool
what's up with the child led weaning??? and tandem
really???? you scored that high? so you do all that stuff???
 

LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
Tandem...some women have children close together (I do). Some also nurse through pregnancy because the older child wasn't weaned yet and still under 1 or 2. Tandem can mean either nursing while pregnant or nursing both a toddler and a babe.

Child led weaning...just as it sounds. Most children will naturally wean off by age 2, some by 3. Most of mine I weaned when pregnant. This last time I nursed through most of my pregnancy (helped with the hyperemesis-morning sickness) and still she was weaned before 2yrs, but on her own.
 
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