new heavens and new earth

[Scott]

Isa 51:15-16 reads: "15I am the LORD your God,who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the LORD of hosts is his name. 16And I have put my words in your mouth and covered you in the shadow of my hand, establishing[c] the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, 'You are my people.'"

John Owen comments on this passage:

The time when the work here mentioned, of planting the heavens, and laying the foundation of the earth, was performed by God, was when he "divided the sea" (Isa. 51:15), and gave the law (v. 16), and said to Zion, "Thou art my people" - that is, when he took the children of Israel out of Egypt, and formed them in the wilderness into a church and state. Then he planted the heavens, and laid the foundation of the earth - made the new world; that is, brought forth order, and government, and beauty, from the confusion wherein before they were. This is the planting of the heavens, and laying the foundation of the earth in the world. And hence it is, that when mention is made of the destruction of a state and government, it is in that language that seems to set forth the end of the world. So Isaiah 34:4; which is yet but the destruction of the state of Edom. The like is also affirmed of the Roman empire, Revelation 6:14; which the Jews constantly affirmed to be intended by Edom in the prophets. And in our Saviour Christ's prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem, Matthew 24, he sets it out by expressions of the same importance. It is evident then, that, in the prophetical idiom and manner of speech, by "heavens" and "earth," the civil and religious state and combination of men in the world, and the men of them, are often understood. So were the heavens and earth that world which was then destroyed by the flood.

Is Owen right? I don't see it? I checked five or so translations and none but the KJ interprets Isa. 51:15 as "divided." The others say "stirred" or something like that. Anyway, I don't find Owen's explanation convicing. What do others think?

 

[Casey]

Owen has a commentary on Isaiah?

 

[VanVos]

Owen for me was one of the first to interpret this passage as a reference to a new religious order rather than the creation. I not sure about this verse but I know that Isa 65:17 is speaking of a new order that has already begun with the church Gal 4:26, 2 Pet 3:13 that will be consummated at Christ's return Rev 21:1-5. This is the already/not yet principle of scripture. We are in the NH & NE (that is church) and will be fully in NH & NE when Christ returns (glorification)

VanVos

 

[Scott]

Do you know any good resources to explain this? Thanks

 

[VanVos]

Here's Owen's commentary on 2 Peter 3

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/russ-ap2o.html

Gary Demar has written some material on this issue (Although I don't agree with his interpretation of Matt 24:35)

http://www.preteristsite.com/docs/demarpassing.html

VanVos

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Matthew Poole says:

Isa 51:15-16. I have put my words in thy mouth; these great and glorious promises which are in thy mouth are not the vain words of man, a weak, and inconstant, and unfaithful creature, but the words of the almighty, unchangeable, and faithful God, and therefore they shall be infallibly accomplished. These words are manifestly spoken by God, either, 1. To Isaiah, by whom these promises were delivered. Or, 2. To Christ, of whom and to whom many things are said in this prophecy, as we have already seen, and will further appear. And such abrupt and sudden apostrophes to persons not mentioned in the foregoing words are not unusual in this prophecy, as hath been observed. Or rather, 3. To Israel, to God's church and people, to whom he speaks both in the foregoing and following verses. For God's word is frequently said to be put into the mouths, not only of the prophets, but of the people also, as Isa 59:21; as also Deut 30:14; Josh 1:8, etc. Have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand; have protected thee by my almighty power. See the same phrase Isa 49:2. That I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth; I have given thee these promises and this protection in all thy calamities, to assure thee of any care and kindness to thee, and that I will reform thee in a most glorious manner, and bring thee unto that perfect and blessed estate which is reserved for the days of the Messiah, which in Scripture phrase is called a making of new heavens and a new earth, Isa 65:17; Isa 66:22; 2 Pet 3:13, and elsewhere. And say unto Zion, Thou art my people; that I may own thee for my people, in a more illustrious manner than ever I have done.

Matthew Henry says:

2. He comforts those that were in bonds, v. 14, 15. See here, (1.) What they do for themselves: The captives exile hastens that he may be loosed and may return to his own country, from which he is banished; his care is that he may not die in the pit (not die a prisoner, through the inconveniences of his confinement), and that his bread should not fail, either the bread he should have to keep him alive in prison or that which should bear his charges home; his stock is low, and therefore he hastens to be loosed. Now some understand this as his fault. He is distrustfully impatient of delays, cannot wait God's time, but thinks he is undone and must die in the pit if he be not released immediately. Others take it to be his praise, that when the doors are thrown open he does not linger, but applies himself with all diligence to procure his discharge. And then it follows, But I am the Lord thy God, which intimates, (2.) What God will do for them, even that which they cannot do for themselves. God has all power in his hand to help the captive exiles; for he has divided the sea, when the roaring of its waves was more frightful than any of the impotent menaces of proud oppressors. He has stilled or quieted the sea, so some think it should be read, Ps. lxv. 7; lxxxix. 9. This is not only a proof of what God can do, but a resemblance of what he has done, and will do, for his people; he will find out a way to still the threatening storm, and bring them safely into the harbour. The Lord of hosts is his name, his name for ever, the name by which his people have long known him. And, as he is able to help them, so he is willing and engaged to do it; for he is thy God, O captive-exile! thine in covenant. This is a check to the desponding captives. Let them not conclude that they must either be loosed immediately or die in the pit; for he that is the Lord of hosts can relieve them when they are brought ever so low. It is also an encouragement to the diligent captives, who, when liberty is proclaimed, are willing to lose no time; let them know that the Lord is their God, and, while they thus strive to help themselves, they may be sure he will help them.

3. He comforts all his people who depended upon what the prophets said to them in the name of the Lord, and built their hopes upon it. When the deliverances which the prophets spoke of either did not come so soon as they looked for them or did not come up to the height of their expectation they began to be cast down in their own eyes; but, as to this, they are encouraged (v. 16) by what God says to his prophet, not to this only, but to all his prophets, nor to this, or them, principally, but to Christ, the great prophet. It is a great satisfaction to those to whom the message is sent to hear the God of truth and power say to his messenger, as he does here, I have put my words in thy mouth, that by them I may plant the heavens. God undertook to comfort his people (v. 12); but still he does it by his prophets, by his gospel; and, that he may do it by these, he here tells us, (1.) That his word in them is very true. He owns what they have said to be what he had directed and enjoined them to say: "I have put my words in thy mouth, and therefore he that receives thee and them receives me." This is a great stay to our faith, that Christ's doctrine was not his, but his that sent him, and that the words of the prophets and apostles were God's own words, which he put into their mouths. God's Spirit not only revealed to them the things themselves they spoke of, but dictated to them the words they should speak (2 Pet. i. 21; 1 Cor. ii. 13); so that these are the true sayings of God, of a God that cannot lie. (2.) That it is very safe: I have covered thee in the shadow of my hand (as before, ch. xlix. 2), which speaks the special protection not only of the prophets, but of their prophecies, not only of Christ, but of Christianity, of the gospel of Christ; it is not only the faithful word of God which the prophets deliver to us, but it shall be carefully preserved till it have its accomplishment for the use of the church, notwithstanding the restless endeavours of the powers of darkness to extinguish this light. They shall prophesy again (Rev. x. 11), though not in their persons, yet in their writings, which God has always covered in the shadow of his hand, preserved by a special providence, else they would have been lost ere this. (3.) That this word, when it comes to be accomplished, will be very great and will not fall short of the pomp and grandeur of the prophecy: "I have put my words in thy mouth, not that by the performance of them I may plant a nation, or found a city, but that I may plant the heavens and lay the foundations of the earth, may do that for my people which will be a new creation." This must look as far forward as to the great work done by the gospel of Christ and the setting up of his holy religion in the world. As God by Christ made the world at first (Heb. i. 2), and by him formed the Old-Testament church (Zech. vi. 12), so by him, and the words put into his mouth, he will set up, [1.] A new world, will again plant the heavens and found the earth. Sin having put the whole creation into disorder, Christ's taking away the sin of the world put all into order again. Old things have passed away, all things have become new; things in heaven and things on earth are reconciled, and so put into a new posture, Col. i. 20. Through him, according to the promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth (2 Pet. iii. 13), and to this the prophets bear witness. [2.] He will set up a new church, a New-Testament church: He will say unto Zion, Thou art my people. The gospel church is called Zion (Heb. xii. 22) and Jerusalem (Gal. iv. 26); and, when the Gentiles are brought into it, it shall be said unto them, You are my people. When God works great deliverances for his church, and especially when he shall complete the salvation of it in the great day, he will thereby own that poor despised handful to be his people, whom he has chosen and loved.

 

[bookslover]

Isa 51:15-16 reads: "15I am the LORD your God,who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the LORD of hosts is his name. 16And I have put my words in your mouth and covered you in the shadow of my hand, establishing[c] the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, 'You are my people.'"

John Owen comments on this passage:

Is Owen right? I don't see it? I checked five or so translations and none but the KJ interprets Isa. 51:15 as "divided." The others say "stirred" or something like that. Anyway, I don't find Owen's explanation convicing. What do others think?

I think Owen is reading way to much into these two verses. God is merely identifying Himself - He's the king of creation, the sender and protector of the prophet, and the father of the people of Israel. Don't know where he got all that other stuff from.