Much of Wilson's response to Leithart sounds like something I might say.

Discussion in 'Federal Vision/New Perspectives' started by Conner, Nov 17, 2014.

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  1. Conner

    Conner Puritan Board Freshman

  2. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    That the "FV were misunderstood and it was the detractors' fault" line is getting old. Amazing that Wilson thinks if PL keeps this up it will only then possibly be truly the FV side's fault for 'confusion'. Rather, this is simply evidence where the fault has been all along.
  3. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Sort of a side-comment in the article, I find this statement rather disturbing. From what I can tell, "anti-FV" folk have bent over backward trying to understand the FV folk on their own terms and there has been absolutely no clarification given from the FV side, other than "you misunderstand us". For Wilson to then indicate that they've been cultivating the "virtue of theological clarity" all along up to this point is disturbing.

    From what I've read of Leithart, Lusk, Wilson, they seem to raise more questions than they ever answer, delighting to shroud everything in "mystery" (what most people would call "contradiction") and enjoy obfuscating the clear statements in the WCF. And the "lion's share of those confusions" rest with the accusers? Baffling.
  4. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    It is not disturbing it is ridiculous. It falls into the category of if you are going to lie make sure it is a big one and repeat often; some will believe it.
  5. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    I know the father of FV lies is James B. Jordan but maybe Leithart is the Federal Vision's Jonathan Gruber?
  6. MW

    MW Puritanboard Amanuensis

    Mr. Leithart argued, “If, by contrast, we renounce the dualism of inner and outer and take justification as a fundamental redefinition not just of my status but of who I am, then we have a stronger basis for assurance.”

    Mr. Wilson responded: "This legal declaration is not a legal fiction. My “legal me” is Jesus, and I am genuinely united to Him by faith. How could it possibly be dualism to be united to Christ?"

    This "legal me" equates to Mr. Leithart's "who I am." It is the same redefinition of justification but in terms which disguise the fact it is a redefinition. The "lion's share of the confusions" is owing to such disguises.

    Justification is and always will be outside of the believer because it is something done ABOUT him, not WITHIN him.

    This justification is delivered from being a legal fiction, not by making it something more than a legal status, but by its union and conjunction with other fundamental blessings which are part of the Redeemer's purchase and the believer's personal experience.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  7. Semper Fidelis

    Semper Fidelis 2 Timothy 2:24-25 Staff Member

    Well said.

    Wilson's error is the claim that there are some who obtain the Redeemer's purchase "in some sense" that can be later lost. He can obtain evangelical blessings that the Confessions insist belong to the elect alone.
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