Mosaic covenant (works?)

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TimeRedeemer

Puritan Board Freshman
It was already on the table that the CoW was broken.

(It's exchanges like this that make people who don't yet understand Covenant Theology throw up their hands...)

It seems your main concern is to be an opponent of works righteousness (or perhaps better put the external constraining aspect of the law for a regenerated Christian), but you don't have to destroy the unity of the Covenant of Grace to do that.

[Edited on 1-29-2006 by TimeRedeemer]
 

Steve Owen

Puritan Board Sophomore
I don't want to get involved in discussions right now, but readers might like to consider this summary of the Mosaic Covenant.

'The National covenant did not refer to the final salvation of individuals: nor was it broken by the disobedience, or even idolatry, of any number of them, provided this was not sanctioned or tolerated by public authority. It was indeed a type of the covenant made with true believers in Christ Jesus, as were all the transactions with Israel; but, like other types, it 'had not the very image,' but only 'a shadow of good things to come.' When, therefore, as a nation, they had broken this covenant, the Lord declared that He would make 'a new covenant with Israel, putting His law' not only in their hands, but 'in their inward parts'; and 'writing it,' not upon tables of stone, 'but in their hearts; forgiving their iniquity and remembering their sin no more' (Jer 31:32-34; Heb 8:7-12; 10:16, 17 ). The Israelites were under a great dispensation of mercy, and had outward privileges and great advantages in various ways for salvation: yet........ the most of them rested in these, and looked no further. The outward covenant was made with the Nation, entitling them to outward advantages, upon the condition of outward national obedience; and the Covenant of Grace was ratified personally with true believers, and sealed and secured spiritual blessings to them, by producing a holy disposition of heart, and spiritual obedience to the Divine law. In case Israel kept the covenant, the Lord promised that they should be to Him, 'a peculiar treasure.' 'All the earth' (Exod 19:5 ) being the Lord's, He might have chosen any other people instead of Israel: and this implied that, as His choice of them was gratuitous, so if they rejected His covenant, He would reject them, and communicate their privileges to others; as indeed He hath done, since the introduction of the Christian dispensation.'

Thomas Scott

Grace & Peace,

Martin
 

non dignus

Puritan Board Sophomore
Thanks Martin,
'Glad to see you. Yep. I agree.

Michael,
Would you elaborate on post-regenerative law keeping and regeneration? The motivation is different than pre-regeneration? Could you juxtapose it to the Roman Catholic doctrine of gratia infusia? Maybe open a new thread?
 

TimeRedeemer

Puritan Board Freshman
Michael,
Would you elaborate on post-regenerative law keeping and regeneration? The motivation is different than pre-regeneration? Could you juxtapose it to the Roman Catholic doctrine of gratia infusia? Maybe open a new thread?

I've already written on that in one of these threads, but first of all the above wording was written late (for me) last night and I was trying to capture merely what you yourself had stated about - something about - we're no longer in the school of the law. So I wasn't stating my position on the law, that should be clear since I've been arguing it in many posts now, but was trying to capture in words, perhaps badly due to tiredness, what you had stated.
 

TimeRedeemer

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Martin Marprelate
I don't want to get involved in discussions right now, but readers might like to consider this summary of the Mosaic Covenant.

'The National covenant did not refer to the final salvation of individuals: nor was it broken by the disobedience, or even idolatry, of any number of them, provided this was not sanctioned or tolerated by public authority. It was indeed a type of the covenant made with true believers in Christ Jesus, as were all the transactions with Israel; but, like other types, it 'had not the very image,' but only 'a shadow of good things to come.' When, therefore, as a nation, they had broken this covenant, the Lord declared that He would make 'a new covenant with Israel, putting His law' not only in their hands, but 'in their inward parts'; and 'writing it,' not upon tables of stone, 'but in their hearts; forgiving their iniquity and remembering their sin no more' (Jer 31:32-34; Heb 8:7-12; 10:16, 17 ). The Israelites were under a great dispensation of mercy, and had outward privileges and great advantages in various ways for salvation: yet........ the most of them rested in these, and looked no further. The outward covenant was made with the Nation, entitling them to outward advantages, upon the condition of outward national obedience; and the Covenant of Grace was ratified personally with true believers, and sealed and secured spiritual blessings to them, by producing a holy disposition of heart, and spiritual obedience to the Divine law. In case Israel kept the covenant, the Lord promised that they should be to Him, 'a peculiar treasure.' 'All the earth' (Exod 19:5 ) being the Lord's, He might have chosen any other people instead of Israel: and this implied that, as His choice of them was gratuitous, so if they rejected His covenant, He would reject them, and communicate their privileges to others; as indeed He hath done, since the introduction of the Christian dispensation.'

Thomas Scott

Grace & Peace,

Martin

I'm simply defending the unity of the Covenant of Grace. To me none of this is difficult. It gets made difficult (especially when a thread on it goes past five or six posts -- just kidding), but to me it's not difficult. Nor should it, frankly, be so contentious among people who are already able to see and accept the doctrines of grace and five solas. But I'm not saying anyone is out of line by debating it, I'm just frustrated that classical covenant theology is not yet the foundation for people in the church considering all the work done by our best theologians over time to elucidate it...
 

TimeRedeemer

Puritan Board Freshman
In a real sense, though, the five solas ARE covenant theology understanding. So, really, Christians who already can see and accept the five solas have a covenant theology understanding of God's Word. Without knowing it, perhaps, but...

So I just wanted to say that if a person isn't yet able to get their arms around Classical Covenant Theology it doesn't mean they don't have that understanding doctrinally.

So, no all is dire regarding this subject of covenant theology and how well it's understood by five solas Christians in general.

Too bad Thomas Boston's great work Human Nature in its Fourfold State, which at one time in Scotland had the folk status of the Pilgrim's Progress, did not continue to be read and absorbed by successive generations.

But, anyway, individuals who are meant to catch on eventually catch on. We all have to continue doing our part in the process too.
 

Puritan Sailor

Puritan Board Doctor
Originally posted by non dignus
Sinners are not condemned by their failure in the covenant of works, they are condemned by Adam's failure.

Actually, they are condemned for both :)

WSC
Q18: Wherein consists the sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell?
A18: The sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell, consists in the guilt of Adam's first sin,[1] the want of original righteousness,[2] and the corruption of his whole nature, which is commonly called Original Sin;[3] together with all actual transgressions which proceed from it.[4]
 

non dignus

Puritan Board Sophomore
Originally posted by puritansailor
Originally posted by non dignus
Sinners are not condemned by their failure in the covenant of works, they are condemned by Adam's failure.

Actually, they are condemned for both :)

WSC
Q18: Wherein consists the sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell?
A18: The sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell, consists in the guilt of Adam's first sin,[1] the want of original righteousness,[2] and the corruption of his whole nature, which is commonly called Original Sin;[3] together with all actual transgressions which proceed from it.[4]

Good point.
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
I've been preparing for a Sunday School lesson and found Matthew Poole's commentary on this issue very edifying:

Galatians 3:21 (POOLE)

Ver. 21. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: though it be thus, yet there is no such opposition between the law and the promises, as that either of them make the other useless. Far be it from me (saith the apostle) to assert any such thing! They are not contrary to one another but subservient to one another.

For if there had been a law given which could have given life; for if there had been a law which could, by our perfect performance of it, have given us a righteousness, wherein we might have stood righteous before God, then righteousness should have been by the law; then men might have hoped to have been justified and accepted of God by me for such obedience; then indeed the law had been against the promises, they holding forth another righteousness, viz. the righteousness of God from faith to faith.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:22 (POOLE)

Ver. 22. But the Sripture hath concluded all under sin: it pleased God to give a law, which, if Adam had continued in his estate of innocence, might have given life; but considering man in his lapsed state, that now is not possible: Ro 2:10: There is none righteous, no not one: and Eph 2:3: We are all children of wrath.

That the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe; that the promises of life and salvation might be given to those who, according to the new covenant of the gospel, should receive and accept of the Mediator, and the terms of salvation which God offers to us in the gospel; where these promises are exhibited upon condition of believing. Though, upon our first reflection upon it, it may seem strange to us, that God, having in his eternal counsels fixed the salvation of man upon a conenant of grace, and his believing in Jesus Christ, should in time first propound a covenant of works: Do this, and live; yet, upon second thoughts, this will appear necessary; for till man was a transgressor by breaking the law, and violating the first covenant, there was no room for a Mediator, no cause for men´s applying themselves to a Mediator. God therefore first gave out the covenant of works, and suffered man to break it; and then he revealed the Mediator to lapsed man; that so they who should believe in him might obtain the promise of life, to which by the fall they had forfeited their right.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 3:23 (POOLE)

Ver. 23. Before faith came; before the covenant of grace, or the doctrine of the gospel, or Christ himself, was revealed.

We were kept under the law; the apostle either speaks of all mankind, of whom it is true, that until God´s revelation of the covenant of grace, they had no other way of salvation made known to them than by the law of works; or else of the Jews, to whom, though before Christ there was a revelation of the gospel, yet it was more dark and imperfect, so as they

were kept under the law, but few apprehending any other way of justification than by the works of the law.

Shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed; but the apostle saith they were but shut up under it; God never intended it as that by the observance of which they should be saved; but as even then, to those whom he intended to save, he made a more secret revelation of his gospel, so he had now more fully and plainly revealed the way of salvatiou which he had from eternity established.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:24 (POOLE)

Ver. 24. The law, both the law contained in ordinances and the moral law,

was our schoolmaster; serving us in the same stead that a schoolmaster in a school doth, who only fitteth children for higher degrees of learning at universities.

To bring us unto Christ: the ceremonial law showed us Christ in all his types and sacrifices; the moral law showed us the absolute need of a Mediator, as it showed us sin, accused and condemned us for it; and it showed us no help either for the guilt of sin contracted, or against the power of it.

That we might be justified by faith; so that God´s end in giving us the law was, that we might be fitted for Christ, and obtain justification by believing in him.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:25 (POOLE)

Ver. 25. After that Christ, the object of saving faith, was in the fulness of time revealed, and the gospel, which is the doctrine of faith, was fully revealed and published, the time of our nonage was over.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 
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