Mohler on Baptist " Homophobia"

[Fly Caster]

Mohler says Baptists must repent of homophobia

I'm firmly convinced that Dr. Mohler sees homosexuality as gross sin, but I am perplexed at some of this:

“We’ve lied about the nature of homosexuality and have practiced what can only be described as a form of homophobia,” and “We’ve used the choice language when it is clear that sexual orientation is a deep inner struggle and not merely a matter of choice.”

“We have said to people that homosexuality is just a choice,” Mohler said. “It’s clear that it’s more than a choice. That doesn’t mean it’s any less sinful, but it does mean it’s not something people can just turn on and turn off. We are not a gospel people unless we understand that only the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ gives a homosexual person any hope of release from homosexuality.”

If he's talking about the infuence of our depraved nature, or the judicial "handing-over" by God to these kinds of abomination, then fine- I see his point. But if that is what he is talking about as "more than a choice," why single out the issue of homosexuality?

He's right in that the church needs to repent in how we often address sin and sinners. in my opinion, given his track record, Dr. Mohler is well qualified to speak to that need. But I don't understand the need to single out this one sin, especially one in which much pressure is applied by our culture to accept and one in which many churches have "lied" in embracing what God calls an abomination.

Is it wise to say that we've "lied" about homosexuality in this way?

 

[Bill The Baptist]

I think that Dr. Mohler is alluding to the process of reprobation outlined in Romans 1. I don't think he is trying to downplay the sin of homosexuality, I think he just trying to counter those who insist that homosexuality is purely an act of free will that could be stopped at any time. I think that most thoughtful Christians would acknowledge that it goes much deeper than this, and in truth all of us are in bondage to sin. We all need the grace of God to set us free from our sinful "choices".

 

[Tripel]

I agree with his statements, though "lie" is maybe not the best word. Instead of "lie", perhaps "spoken incorrectly out of ignorance" in some cases.

A lot of the people you hear say "it's only a choice!" are saying so because that is what they believe. So it's not exactly a lie, but it's not true either.

 

[Rufus]

I agree with his statements, though "lie" is maybe not the best word. Instead of "lie", perhaps "spoken incorrectly out of ignorance" in some cases.

A lot of the people you hear say "it's only a choice!" are saying so because that is what they believe. So it's not exactly a lie, but it's not true either.

I agree with you. Mohler spoke about it (and I agree) that many Christians think homosexuality is some off-on switch that you can change at anytime rather than an inward struggle, we all struggle with our own sins so why should we treat those tempted with homsexuality like we treat anyone else with a serious sin problem.

[video=youtube;8Gi7TOMjr3Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gi7TOMjr3Y&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[Herald]

Sin, by it's very nature, is addictive. Sexual sin is no different. Even after a person experiences the new birth their mind still fights the battle against sin (Romans 12:2). In effect, the mind has been trained by sin. Acknowledging this doesn't make sin any less sinful; it places the focus on the liberating power of the Gospel. But whether one's sexual sin is homosexuality, adultery, fornication (or others that discretion prevents me from mentioning) the new Christian will still face strong temptation, but with one exception; the new Christian has the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit and, hopefully, the love and support of the saints.

 

[ericfromcowtown]

I'm surprised that he has bought into the use of the term "homophobia." Terms like that are loaded with meaning, and even if our understanding of the nature of homosexual sin has been lacking, I'd avoid that term like the plague.

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

why single out the issue of homosexuality?

Honestly? The church as a whole has singled out homosexuality. You don't see marches against people who lie getting married to other liars. You don't see people saying "God hates people with slothful attitudes". The reason he is addressing this is because this is almost all the church in America seems to care about anymore. (Well, that and abortion). I say good stance by Dr Mohler. This "Just stop being gay" thing is totally unhelpful. We as the Church have, mostly, done a poor poor poor job of loving homosexuals and showing them the Jesus that the woman who was cault in adultry encountered.

 

[Fly Caster]

You don't see people saying "God hates people with slothful attitudes".

Is this referring to the church as a whole, the SBC as a whole, or a few fringe groups like Westboro? How many SBC churches approve of the tactics of Westboro?

This "Just stop being gay" thing is totally unhelpful.

Some examples of who is saying that would be helpful.

I was SBC not too many years ago, and while there is a varied mixture, I'm really not aware of any who condemn homosexuality without offering forgiveness in the gospel.

 

[ericfromcowtown]

why single out the issue of homosexuality?

Honestly? The church as a whole has singled out homosexuality. You don't see marches against people who lie getting married to other liars. You don't see people saying "God hates people with slothful attitudes". The reason he is addressing this is because this is almost all the church in America seems to care about anymore. (Well, that and abortion). I say good stance by Dr Mohler. This "Just stop being gay" thing is totally unhelpful. We as the Church have, mostly, done a poor poor poor job of loving homosexuals and showing them the Jesus that the woman who was cault in adultry encountered.

I don't think that the church as a whole has singled out homosexuality. The issue has been forced on society by those that want to change the institution of marriage.

I'm confused about the comment about not seeing "marches against people who lie getting married to other liars." Apples and oranges. No one, the church included, is defining biblical marriage as that between a sinless man and a sinless woman. The church is not even suggesting that marriage be restricted to Christians. The sin of lying and the institution of marriage are 2 separate issues, whereas this isn't the case with homosexuality.

In regards to the "God hates slothful attitudes" comment, I'm assuming you're referring to Phelps and family. Whenever he has been brought up on the PB there has been unanimous disdain for his actions. No one is suggesting that the actions of Phelps are justified.

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

why single out the issue of homosexuality?

Honestly? The church as a whole has singled out homosexuality. You don't see marches against people who lie getting married to other liars. You don't see people saying "God hates people with slothful attitudes". The reason he is addressing this is because this is almost all the church in America seems to care about anymore. (Well, that and abortion). I say good stance by Dr Mohler. This "Just stop being gay" thing is totally unhelpful. We as the Church have, mostly, done a poor poor poor job of loving homosexuals and showing them the Jesus that the woman who was cault in adultry encountered.

I don't think that the church as a whole has singled out homosexuality. The issue has been forced on society by those that want to change the institution of marriage.

I'm confused about the comment about not seeing "marches against people who lie getting married to other liars." Apples and oranges. No one, the church included, is defining biblical marriage as that between a sinless man and a sinless woman. The church is not even suggesting that marriage be restricted to Christians. The sin of lying and the institution of marriage are 2 separate issues, whereas this isn't the case with homosexuality.

In regards to the "God hates slothful attitudes" comment, I'm assuming you're referring to Phelps and family. Whenever he has been brought up on the PB there has been unanimous disdain for his actions. No one is suggesting that the actions of Phelps are justified.

Maybe my examples were bad but there is no way to get around the fact that the church in America has made homosexuality one of its 2 pet sins. When was the last time a march in Washington happened that demanded legeslation against all divorce except for infidelity? "Homosexuals are ruining the families in America" is just not gonna cut it when divorce rates (even in the church) are so high.

 

[au5t1n]

Maybe my examples were bad but there is no way to get around the fact that the church in America has made homosexuality one of its 2 pet sins. When was the last time a march in Washington happened that demanded legeslation against all divorce except for infidelity? "Homosexuals are ruining the families in America" is just not gonna cut it when divorce rates (even in the church) are so high.

I agree about divorce, but I'd suggest two reasons why homosexuality has received such attention: 1. It's being pushed heavily by the media and schools, and 2. it is one of the few sins that the Bible refers to as "abomination." I agree with these reasons for calling special attention to the public promotion of sodomy, but I'd also suggest that homosexuality is ultimately a new symptom of an older problem--the decline of religion in this country and the erosion of marriage via divorce and fornication.

Obviously the other pet sin, abortion, receives a lot of attention because it is murder on a large scale.

Also, maybe this is just me, but I haven't heard of too many (or any?) marches against homosexuality, but "gay pride parades" have been all over the news the past couple years.

 

[Philip]

If he's talking about the infuence of our depraved nature, or the judicial "handing-over" by God to these kinds of abomination, then fine- I see his point. But if that is what he is talking about as "more than a choice," why single out the issue of homosexuality?

I think he is speaking of it as a temptation that God has given some people to bear. The way that the Church has handled this has been, generally, in two wrong ways: first is the liberal reaction of saying "it's fine---it's not a sin" but the second is to say "if you have these attractions, you don't belong in the church, or at least you shouldn't talk about it." Even at my college, there is such a stigma attached to admitting that you have homosexual attraction that no one would ever admit it. I think, as the Church, we need to encourage people to come clean publicly about this issue and say "I need prayer, I need support." We've bought into the lie that if you experience said attractions that you are therefore "gay" and (in the Christian community) need to repent---but how do you repent of temptation? So we tell these young men "stay in the closet---don't ask, don't tell."

I should note that very often these attitudes are unspoken---you won't hear them talked about, and most would deny having them.

 

[Rufus]

You don't see people saying "God hates people with slothful attitudes".

Is this referring to the church as a whole, the SBC as a whole, or a few fringe groups like Westboro? How many SBC churches approve of the tactics of Westboro?

This "Just stop being gay" thing is totally unhelpful.

Some examples of who is saying that would be helpful.

I was SBC not too many years ago, and while there is a varied mixture, I'm really not aware of any who condemn homosexuality without offering forgiveness in the gospel.

As far as I know Westboro is independent not SBC.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

All sin that you subject yourself to operates that way. We've realized that with alcoholism, for example, which is why it's been said that no one is ever 'free' from alcoholism who has been an active alcoholic....at least on the unregenerate side of the coin.

*edit - added point: Herald pretty much said what I meant in a much more articulate fashion.

 

[Rufus]

1. It's being pushed heavily by the media and schools,

I've experience MSNBC doing it subconsciously, whether they did it on purpose I do not know. It was a commercial for the network about "Life" and than it said "Lean forward", during the speeding clips of life there was a gay marriage.

 

[au5t1n]

1. It's being pushed heavily by the media and schools,

I've experience MSNBC doing it subconsciously, whether they did it on purpose I do not know. It was a commercial for the network about "Life" and than it said "Lean forward", during the speeding clips of life there was a gay marriage.

Think of popular television shows too. These days it's Glee and Modern Family. They're propaganda, and the sheep love numbing themselves with it, including Christians.

 

[JohnGill]

1. It's being pushed heavily by the media and schools,

I've experience MSNBC doing it subconsciously, whether they did it on purpose I do not know. It was a commercial for the network about "Life" and than it said "Lean forward", during the speeding clips of life there was a gay marriage.

Think of popular television shows too. These days it's Glee and Modern Family. They're propaganda, and the sheep love numbing themselves with it, including Christians.

It's being pushed in more and more shows. Even shows that a few years ago never dealt with such issues and avoided them. What is surprising is that as a group, they make up less than 4% of the US population. As to Mohler's presentation, he would've been better off not using the politicized language of the sodomites to get his message across. It has caused a lot of confusion concerning what he actually believes now. Do we Christians sometimes confuse the war against their attacks on children and the institution of marriage, with the individual? Yes, of course. And for that we should be reminded. It's the organized group that we are at war with, the individual we are to present with the gospel. But we have the same confusion when dealing with atheists and other attackers of the faith. We actively engage in warfare with the enemy of God, atheist, sodomite, infanticide supporter, muslim, etc. Hopefully Mohler's message will not be seen as a reason to let the warfare subside and give into darkness, but as a reminder to not let the warfare restrain our preaching of the gospel. I for one have been guilty of confusing the individual for the group.

By war, I mean how we as Christians through discipleship seek to bring every institution under the obedience of Christ. Not actually using physical weapons.

 

[JennyG]

Christians need to take every opportunity of counteracting the (very widespread) perception that they are "obsessed" with this one sin. .. so many people seem to think that just by pointing to the volume of publicity they have convicted the church of hypocrisy, dishonesty, judgmentalism etc etc, the usual list.
Sexual sins are different from other sins though....they're the only ones that society is fighting to reclassify as "not sinful at all".
If a campaign was mounted to persuade the world that stealing was not offensive to God, I expect (hope) the church would soon be obsessing about that.