Mid-Week Prayer Meetings

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Grant

Grant

Puritan Board Graduate
Does your congregation have prayer meetings?

What do they look like, regarding format?

Are others allowed to pray out loud (laymen)?

Should women be allowed to pray out loud during this type of public meetings?


In our family worship we usually close in prayer and I encourage my family members to take turns praying out loud and Dad (me) closes. This helps me hear what is on my children’s heart as they speak to God.

I am wondering if this should be done in the public prayer meeting when the Pastor opens and closes, but the laymen are permitted to pray in between.
 
Our prayer meeting on Wednesday evening begins with an opening prayer, a short scripture reading that has reference to whatever the devotional is that night (right now we are going through the Shorter Catechism), then we sing two psalms (ask for favorites). Then we have a time of prayer, receiving requests, and then the Elders pray.

After that I teach the aforementioned devotional.

It lasts about an hour.
 
Backwoods Presbyterian said:
Our prayer meeting on Wednesday evening begins with an opening prayer, a short scripture reading that has reference to whatever the devotional is that night (right now we are going through the Shorter Catechism), then we sing two psalms (ask for favorites). Then we have a time of prayer, receiving requests, and then the Elders pray.

After that I teach the aforementioned devotional.

It lasts about an hour.
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Thanks for sharing brother. So there is time allotted for laymen and laywomen to pray out loud?
 
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Our mid-week meeting is partly a review and discussion of the past sermon, and then a time of prayer. Anyone can pray; it is opened and closed by an elder.
 
Being that my congregation is a church plant established as a mission work to Calvin College (now University), we host a theology and pizza night on Wednesdays at Dr. Noe's home. The goal is to reach Calvin students with Reformed theology and solid expositions of Scripture on Wednesdays. The evening begins with fellowship and pizza. We then gather around and the pastor opens with prayer. The portion of Scripture we are studying is read aloud. We then systematically work through the text with questions and discussion. The pastor closes us in prayer. We then finish the night with singing Psalms and hymns. The amount of students that attend is very encouraging.
 
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Reformed Bookworm said:
Being that my congregation is a church plant established as a mission work to Calvin College (now University), we host a theology and pizza night on Wednesdays at Dr. David C. Noe's home. The goal is to reach Calvin students with Reformed theology and solid expositions of Scripture on Wednesdays. The evening begins with fellowship and pizza. We then gather around and the pastor opens with prayer. The portion of Scripture we are studying is read aloud. We then systematically work through the text with questions and discussion. The pastor closes us in prayer. We then finish the night with singing Psalms and hymns. The amount of students that attend is very encouraging.
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You had me at pizza:cheers:
 
We have a prayer meeting, and I think such is encouraged directly in Scripture by 1Tim.2.

I think the format could be very pragmatic, whatever works for a particular group. We typically follow an acrostic (ACTS) format, after opening with some Scripture (which one of our men asked to lead chooses for us). That text often will be referred to again in the course of the hour, as the topic changes.

Everyone is encouraged to pray, but someone is appointed to begin one topic, and another appointed to conclude.

All, including women and children, are encouraged to pray if they will. I regard 1Tim.2:9 as actually enjoining women explicitly to this work, when Paul writes, "likewise the women."
(The sentence is notoriously difficult to punctuate, and to connect the directions about "adorning" with Paul's ongoing subject of prayer. Paul follows this direction for female engagement in such prayer by reiterating that women may NOT lead in public worship, v11ff. The idea would be a false inference; similar to when he addressed false inferences in 1Cor.11 & 14, taken from the idea that possessing a talent or a certain gift is equivalent to divine authorization to employ such anywhere one willed.)
​
I think such times of prayer are ideal for pastors and elders, besides parents with children, to be encouraging, modeling, and listening.
 
Our prayer meetings are complete worship services (including a sermon) focused on intercessory prayer. Women may not lead in prayer. Men are chosen and called upon by the minister to pray at various points of the service.
 
1. Pastor or leader prays
2. Scripture reading, instruction, discussion
3. Prayer requests
4. Prayer (anyone encouraged to pray)

We also usually begin with singing. Work prevents me from attending most Wednesday evening meetings, unfortunately.
 
We have 4 house groups meeting on a Thursday night. They begin about 8 pm and with a bible study. Last year the pastor sent out questions to the house group leaders that were based on the Sunday sermon. It was a good way of discussing the sermon and how it applies to us. Prayer time follows this and we'd pray for various aspects of church life and ministry and this was open for all members to pray. Each Sunday service we make a point of praying for our missionaries sent out by the church but each group has specific missionaries assigned to them for prayer. Sometimes we would skype a missionary or missionary family and chat and pray with them. Then we finish with a cup of tea and we are over around 10:30 pm.
 
No building so no opportunity to gather physically. We have a 6AM prayer meeting by phone on Wednesdays. Pastor sends out email outlining people needs and other concerns the night before. Meeting is opened and closed by him. All are welcome to pray.
 
We have a non-compulsory prayer meeting on Wednesday evenings. We pray for the "big ticket" items of the church.

1. It begins with a singing of a Psalm
2. A very brief exhortation
3. Pastor or one of the elders prays
4. Singing of another Psalm.
5. Brief exhortation.
6. Pastor or one of the elders prays.
7. Psalm

45 to 50 minutes, on average. Since it is a churchly function, church officers pray.

Linked is an example order of meeting: https://ccrpcorg.s3.amazonaws.com/Prayer Meeting/Prayer Meeting 12-25-2019.pdf
 
At our midweek prayer meeting we sing a few songs and then the time is about half prayer and half bible study. We go about 60 to 75 minutes and some folks hang around and talk a bit after. Anyone can pray. Once a month the entire time is prayer, no bible study. The pastor does a list as a guide but anybody can add to it. Last time it was church related including praying for all the kids, but one month might have missionaries or prayer for the nation and those in government.

I cannot figure out for the life of me why some churches dont allow women to pray. The Refomed Baptist near us is like that unless they've changed recently. I Cor 11 says for women to wear a head covering when they pray and prophecy because of the angels. That is women speaking in the gathering in the presence of unseen angelic witnesses. If a guy feels in some intuitive way that something is wrong, my guess is that the women are not wearing head coverings. It isn't the prayer itself, or expression of thanks and praise, that is the problem. It is just so warped and stupid to say women can't pray. Tell them to cover their head and pour out their heart in prayer.

I am trying to be gracious and not express my full feelings about this lol. Some of you are so badly mistaken and unbiblical.
 
Well, I disagree about the “unbiblical” and “mistaken” characterizations, but okay. Not only are women to be prohibited from leading prayer in a churchly context -who are to remain silent in the churches (outside the corporate Amen, or reciting in unison the decalogue and LORD's prayer, and the singing of praise/prophesying)- but unordained, unqualified, unexamined men should be prohibited too. Women may pray, and ought too, but not verbally leading in the church, along with most of the men. They cover their heads in the worship service while praying in concert with the LORD’s people, and they sing the praises of God. There is no deprivation here. Nothing “stupid” about that. Your attempts at coming across graciously failed, as if the position of women leading prayer verbally in a churchly context is some kind of a new position not thought out and well-defended in ecclesiastical history.
 
We begin with a hymn, then have two seasons of prayer, one for things external to our congregation (other churches, missionaries, etc), then for internal concerns. Each time the floor is open for requests to be voiced, and letters from other churches or missionaries are often read. All men are encouraged to pray; it is forbidden to women to lead in prayer. Not to start a debate with Lynnie in the above post, but the explanation is that leading in prayer is a matter of having authority: the leader is speaking for the rest. The women in the passage were to have their heads under cover while prayer was going on. This does not mean they were themselves leading the prayer. Take it or leave it, that is the RB RB understanding of it.
 
Our midweek service is not necessarily a prayer meeting, it is Bible study. We begin with a few songs, a prayer, then instruction, ending in prayer. However, our prayer service is on Sunday evening, prior to worship. We begin by recounting/reminding of prayer needs. Led by the pastor (me) and then continued by other elders, deacons, or faithful men. I then conclude the prayer time prior to beginning the worship service. Women are present and praying, although they do not lead prayer. We pray for thirty minutes uninterrupted.
It is noteworthy that not one woman has ever been told not to lead in prayer, but they have never had to be. They know by instruction that the men should lead and we have never had any issues in this regard. We have incredible men and women who serve faithfully and are devoted to prayer.
 
At our Wednesday night Bible study and prayer meeting, the pastor leads the meeting. He opens with prayer and then leads the study, during which there is open discussion as he leads. After the study, there is a time of prayer, usually with the pastor closing in prayer (although sometimes he'll ask someone else to close). Everyone (men and women) are encouraged to both participate in the discussion and to pray during the prayer time.
 
Afterthought said:
Women may not lead in prayer. Men are chosen and called upon by the minister to pray at various points of the service.
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Joshua said:
Not only are women to be prohibited from leading prayer o in a churchly context -who are to remain silent in the churches (outside the corporate Amen and the singing of praise/prophesying)- but unordained, unqualified, unexamined men should be prohibited too. Women may pray, and ought too, but not verbally leading in the church, along with most of the men.
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Ben Zartman said:
All men are encouraged to pray; it is forbidden to women to lead in prayer.....but the explanation is that leading in prayer is a matter of having authority: the leader is speaking for the rest.
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Chad Hutson said:
Women are present and praying, although they do not lead prayer.
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What does "leading in prayer" actually mean? In other words, women aren't allowed to pray out loud when everyone else is silent and since they would be the only ones heard audibly praying that would constitute "leading" the meeting at that point? Is this the idea? I'm trying to imagine what this looks like in practice.

How about in private settings? Can a woman pray out loud in an informal small group setting? How about during family prayer time with her husband and children?
 
Contra_Mundum said:
I regard 1Tim.2:9 as actually enjoining women explicitly to this work, when Paul writes, "likewise the women."
(The sentence is notoriously difficult to punctuate, and to connect the directions about "adorning" with Paul's ongoing subject of prayer.​
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Interesting Rev. Buchanan, I have always, just in reading and contemplating the passage, connected the “in like manner also” with the attitude and demeanor enjoined upon the men, “without wrath or doubting,” as Paul goes on to describe for women a life lived with faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. Do any commentators take your same view, especially older ones?

Everyone is encouraged to pray in our morning Bible hour at church, and I have generally refrained, with a very few times of doing so because of the desire on our pastor’s part that all participate. But after the last time of offering prayer aloud during our prayer time I decided to go with what has seemed best to me from Scripture and refrain. I agree with Joshua’s and Ben’s take on the reasoning. If friends, male and female, got together to pray outside of a congregational meeting that would likely be different.​
 
Joshua said:
Well, I disagree about the “unbiblical” and “mistaken” characterizations, but okay. Not only are women to be prohibited from leading prayer o in a churchly context -who are to remain silent in the churches (outside the corporate Amen and the singing of praise/prophesying)- but unordained, unqualified, unexamined men should be prohibited too. Women may pray, and ought too, but not verbally leading in the church, along with most of the men. They cover their heads in the worship service while praying in concert with the LORD’s people, and they sing the praises of God. There is no deprivation here. Nothing “stupid” about that. Your attempts at coming across graciously failed, as if the position of women leading prayer verbally in a churchly context is some kind of a new position not thought out and well-defended in ecclesiastical history.
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All right, if you believe in head coverings I will retract my crack. In my limited experience I've seen the "women can't pray aloud" only in non head covering situations. I don't agree they can't, and I believe Phillip's four daughters were verbal in some fashion in gatherings, but at least you don't appear to be tossing 1 Cor 11 out.

I also think, (and right now I probably don't have a good logical argument for this, more just intuitive) a smaller midweek gathering does not equate to the Sunday service. In our church on Sunday only men in leadership lead the opening, closing, and deacon prayer, and I am glad for that. But midweeks seem much less formal.....more like the family getting together. It just isn't the same feeling in the meeting. Maybe feeling is the wrong word, but it feels appropriate for various women to lift up a prayer request along with many men on a midweek.
 
Jeri Tanner said:
Interesting Rev. Buchanan, I have always, just in reading and contemplating the passage, connected the “in like manner also” with the attitude and demeanor enjoined upon the men, “without wrath or doubting,” as Paul goes on to describe for women a life lived with faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. Do any commentators take your same view, especially older ones?

Everyone is encouraged to pray in our morning Bible hour at church, and I have generally refrained, with a very few times of doing so because of the desire on our pastor’s part that all participate. But after the last time of offering prayer aloud during our prayer time I decided to go with what has seemed best to me from Scripture and refrain. I agree with Joshua’s and Ben’s take on the reasoning. If friends, male and female, got together to pray outside of a congregational meeting that would likely be different.​
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Jerri,
I'm not sure about what commentators might be in agreement. It's been a while since I preached this passage.

I am confident of what the context is about, of Paul's purpose in writing and how the first part of the letter flows from chs.1-3 especially. This part is concerned to promote organized prayer for the church. V8 does not shift the subject under discussion, but summons the whole church (as opposed to designated "prayer warriors") to the task of prayer.

So Paul calls on the men to pray in every congregation (he's not telling them to have impromptu tete-a-tetes "everywhere" when they meet one another on the street). "Without wrath and doubting" are dispositional requirements for all effectual prayer; and I suppose are tendencies men/males may be more particularly tempted to, and should suppress especially in their public prayers.

V9 begins, "in like manner also the women," and I understand Paul to refer to the primary activity of the previous v8 (prayer) and indeed the focal activity of the previous 8vv entire. He hasn't changed the subject. He says that he wants the women to pray in every such meeting as well. The following words (end of v9 and v10) pertaining to the women--as in the case of the men--are describing mainly dispositional requirements (the outward expression is an index of the inward heart), i.e. the manner of the praying iself, which often in the case of women need to be attended to more particularly than men when it comes to social presentation. Even at a prayer meeting, we need to remember we aren't coming there to impress our fellow parishioners; but to pray to God. You are already "dressed up," ladies, in godliness and good works.

And at v11, he dispenses with a false-inference: that the previous encouragement to the women to prayer institutes a change in worship practice. It does nothing of the kind, and he enforces standard church practice with the same arguments he ever used in vv12-15.

If, as some have proposed even here, they understand formal church worship to be of one kind, be it on the Christian Sabbath or any other day or purpose such as the collective prayers during the week--well then, Paul's statement enjoining silence on the women he simply affirms here as across the board. But then, I also think that these will not regard v9, "likewise the women," as applicable to the main subject, i.e. prayer; but make the whole subject shift at that place to a focus on "women in church."

I happen to think my interpretation (whoever may consent to it) preserves the subject (prayer), the flow of the passage, and explains why Paul shifts into his defense of male-only leading in worship in the closing vv of that section. It does a better job than the alternatives, in my opinion, which is why I adopted it.

I think Sabbath-worship is unique, and is the place most especially governed by minister-led function. Office is tied to the church's formal worship, and must reflect the divine concerns for purity of expression; and so is appointed for men only to fill it. I don't think the prayer meeting is formal worship or subject to the same regulation. I don't believe a woman praying publicly beside other women, and men, and children, has anything to do with the "silence" Paul calls for in v11. I don't think that female piety is anything to be ashamed of, nor is every instance of praying aloud "leading." This goes also for the children who may have something to say (as well as learning appropriate habits in our midst).

I'm not anxious to fight over this, or disparage any who don't agree. I believe I am defending my stance with a faithful, reverent, and consistent treatment of Scripture's text.
 
Prayer
Scripture/exposition - We’ve gone through the psalms since I began in 2011, we just start over we are on our 3rd time through.
Prayer - open to all to pray, but thankfully only heads of households tend to pray. I’m not sure a woman has prayed since I came in 2011.
Sing the Psalm and one more.
 
BLM said:
What does "leading in prayer" actually mean? In other words, women aren't allowed to pray out loud when everyone else is silent and since they would be the only ones heard audibly praying that would constitute "leading" the meeting at that point? Is this the idea? I'm trying to imagine what this looks like in practice.

How about in private settings? Can a woman pray out loud in an informal small group setting? How about during family prayer time with her husband and children?
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Yes, "leading in prayer" means praying out loud while everyone else is silent. Those in silent mode are supposedly listening to and affirming the out-loud-prayer by a discreet "amen" at the end ("how will he say amen at your giving of thanks?...). There is no context where everyone is praying out loud at once. That defies reason and destroys unity.
A woman may pray aloud in informal settings: her home, at a meal, at family worship, etc. I think our PMs have a more formal feeling because we alternate between having them on the Lord's Day and mid-week: the reason being that few can make it mid-week, but all members are expected to be present on the Sabbath. So the mid-week order is a hold-over from the Sabbath habit. And while the mid-week is informal in that the church cannot require attendance, it is still the church gathering to pray together for church matters, so it feels--whether our judgment is right or wrong--like the same order ought to apply.

As for those who would say that we deny the public outpouring of the heart to women, well--we try to keep men from it too. "When thou prayest, pray in secret..." Public prayer is not the time to wrestle out the serious issues of your soul: it is a time when, with decency and order, one man, or men in turn, pray on behalf of the congregation. Sure and it should be fervent and heartfelt, but it is not the time for praying your guts out, so to speak, or sweating blood. Jesus went off by himself to do this ("tarry here while I pray"), and His recorded public prayers are very organized and decent. There's nothing worse than when a guy thinks he should give public vent to his inmost thoughts and affection in public, or wanders off publicly in a stream-of consciousness ramble no one can follow. I've often wished I had an air horn to gently remind them of what they're supposed to be doing, or a tranquilizer dart to discreetly silence them. Our elders and deacons regularly give reminders of the do's and dont's of public prayer.
 
lynnie said:
All right, if you believe in head coverings I will retract my crack. In my limited experience I've seen the "women can't pray aloud" only in non head covering situations. I don't agree they can't, and I believe Phillip's four daughters were verbal in some fashion in gatherings, but at least you don't appear to be tossing 1 Cor 11 out.

I also think, (and right now I probably don't have a good logical argument for this, more just intuitive) a smaller midweek gathering does not equate to the Sunday service. In our church on Sunday only men in leadership lead the opening, closing, and deacon prayer, and I am glad for that. But midweeks seem much less formal.....more like the family getting together. It just isn't the same feeling in the meeting. Maybe feeling is the wrong word, but it feels appropriate for various women to lift up a prayer request along with many men on a midweek.
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Lynnie,

Personally I am still not sure where I land on head coverings being required today. Usually it depends on the day. My family does not currently practice covering. Unless I am thoroughly convinced it is required (mostly binding in all ages), I will not ask them to. I try to study the matter a couple times a year.

However, the Charge that 1 Corinthians 11 is “tossed”, I think ignores (in an uncharitable way) some of the great commentators who have seen the practice as cultural and tried their best to treat the passage in an exegetical manner(1 of many being Matthew Henry). Again, I personally have yet to conclude either way. You might want to take some time to check out this RPNA document from 2001. It does a great job outlining some Church History regarding the practice.

http://www.reformedpresbytery.org/books/headcovr/headcovr.htm

I have to say, it seems to be a pretty good paper. On the mornings I wake up and “don’t” believe it required, it is because of this document and it’s approach to the passage. The beginning of the paper is a review of historical comments on the practice. The end of the paper is exegetical work closed by a conclusion.:detective:

P.S. You can look up Matthew Henry online. Below is a quote from the RPNA paper (linked above) quoting Calvin (and yes I am aware of his famous breast quote relating to modesty):

John Calvin has rightly rendered the sense of the passage. Commenting upon 1 Corinthians 11:14 Calvin states:

He [Paul—RPNA] again sets forth nature as the mistress of decorum, and what was at that time in common use by universal consent and custom—even among the Greeks—he speaks of as being natural, for it was not always reckoned a disgrace for men to have long hair. Historical records bear, that in all countries in ancient times, that is, in the first ages, men wore long hair. Hence also the poets in speaking of the ancients, are accustomed to apply to them the common epithet of unshorn. It was not until a late period that barbers began to be employed at Rome—about the time of Africanus the elder. And at the time when Paul wrote these things, the practice of having the hair shorn had not yet come into use in the provinces of Gaul or Germany. Nay more, it would have been reckoned an unseemly thing for men, no less than for women, to be shorn or shaven; but as in Greece [Corinth—RPNA] it was reckoned an unbecoming thing for a man to allow his hair to grow long, so that those who did were remarked as effeminate, he [Paul—RPNA] reckons as nature a custom that had come to be confirmed (emphases added).

If, as Calvin taught, nature is custom that has come to be confirmed within a society, then Paul is asking this question: "Doth not even a custom which has come to be confirmed in your culture, itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" This follows very well with the scope of Paul's argument and is indeed something that the Corinthians could easily judge. If we say that God explicitly commanded the use of the headcovering in this passage irrespective of the culture of the Corinthians, then there was really nothing for the Corinthians to judge in themselves, and this makes Paul's question irrelevant. We are not prepared to assert this.
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P.P.S. I recommend the full paper in the very least to challenge yourself.
 
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BLM said:
What does "leading in prayer" actually mean? In other words, women aren't allowed to pray out loud when everyone else is silent and since they would be the only ones heard audibly praying that would constitute "leading" the meeting at that point? Is this the idea? I'm trying to imagine what this looks like in practice.
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In the formal setting of a "service," leading in prayer means out loud while others listen. In informal settings (homes, friendship circles, etc.) women are free to lead prayers.
Again, this is never an issue within our congregation. The women want the men to lead, not because of any inability or deficiency in the women, but rather because they sincerely seek to honor God and to see the men doing so as well. Remember, these issues have as much to do with men neglecting their duties as it does women usurping authority. In the Christian church, when men lead lovingly and humbly, Christian women appreciate it and respond positively.
Much of the controversy in the contemporary setting revolves around a failure of men to be men. As a result, oftentimes women feel compelled to pick up the slack. Its not simply women seeking to wrest control from male domination (although in some contexts this is the case). We need to teach the men how to pray and that it is their duty to pray.
My observations after 22 years in pastoral ministry: 1) men are often lazy or uncommitted; 2) women are often more devoted than men; 3) if not instructed properly and/or held accountable, even the men who are committed can fall prey to the vice of arrogance or superiority; 4) humble, self-controlled, committed, caring, and strong men are vital to a healthy church and appreciated by God-fearing members; 5) it isn't necessary to tear manhood down in order to build up womanhood, or vice versa.:2cents:
 
Moderating: let’s keep away from debate/discussion on head covering in this thread. There are many good discussions to research on the PB, just fyi. Search for ones involving @Afterthought and Rev. Winzer (MW) as some of those get to older commentary and what is meant by references to the cultural aspect.
 
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